• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."
  • Community Question: What makes a good motherboard?

Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

Page 502 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

R0H1T

Platinum Member
Jan 12, 2013
2,566
142
106
Ryzen would be just 25% slower in non-avx workloads while consuming 20% less power (maybe?). I think i know the winner.
Just 20% try again o_O


I don't know if there's a particular reason we don't see this from Toms anymore ~


But I have a feeling Intel won't be pleased if sites like TR include 1700/x in there ~


Pretty sure your efficiency guesstimates don't stack up in the real world, TR might be different so I can't say anything atm about it ~
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,114
2,056
136
Generating heat was the workload in question, in case you missed context.

Ryzen would be just 25% slower in non-avx workloads while consuming 20% less power (maybe?). I think i know the winner.
And costing 500 dollars less too boot while consuming 20-30% less power. I think I know the winner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drazick

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
396
106
116
Some interesting stuff is going on but I will be sitting out this round of CPUs. Gonna have to muddle through with my 5820k for another year or so I guess
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2blzd

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,898
1,524
136
TDP stands for "thermal design power" there is no much to try to go around it. It cant be any clearer than that.
Yes - Tdp is not an expression for powerusage.
But when powerusage exceeds tdp like here, tdp is not set "right" and consistent with Intel conservative history. Thats excactly what Ian wrote.
Powerusage exceeds the tdp as i wrote. Not that its a major problem but it signals extreme wrong information vs prior generations.
Its eating their brand value. Stupid.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: VirtualLarry

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,898
1,524
136
Intel has been using a "good enough" average power usage envelope that covers when a CPU starts to throttle away from boost for a long while. AMD getting tired of being compared to Intels not actual top power usage number tried to come up with an A(verage)DP power usage or something like that back in the Athlon X2 or Phenom days. AMD has since dropped that and just calls it TDP like Intel. Fact is neither number actually represents full/max power usage under load for their CPU's. Since both support thermal throttling, the TDP rating is more of a cooler recommendation rating than power rating.
140w tdp cooler on a 7900x is a present from hell.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,327
1,525
136
140w tdp cooler on a 7900x is a present from hell.
Yes which will result in throttling when at heavy load to non-turbo levels. That's the point of Intel's TDP. Not most power usage. But the thermal envelope you should use this in and the CPU can actively adapt to the cooling.

Probably easiest way to put it is that the TDP is probably closer to max load of the CPU at it's rated speed and not it's turbo speed.
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
738
334
106
zzI was ready to preorder the 7820x but now i dont see why

  • gaming perf - most important, because the only thing I cannot wait for are frames even as casual gamer
    • I expected better than equal clocked SKL/KBL but its a dissapointment- yes the BIOS ...I will believe it when i see it
  • compiling- need more benches, but its a mixed bag
  • video editing- all 8C are fast enough for me
  • excel- didn't see a bench but everything 8C on the market is fast enough
  • power - as expected- intel didn't promise us 14+ and ++ will have better power but better frequency, which they achievied nicely but
    • but I wonder why does the 6C,8C and 10C SKL-X and BDW-E have nearly the same power consumption?
    • BUT
  • thermal interface design- the big fat redacted
    • I would somehow accept the power consumption but I cannot accept buying a 500+EUR chip which has problems of running without throttling at default and I want to buy it because its OC potential
    • I hope someone at Intel has fulfilled his local department goals with this....
I feel this is big lose for intel if gaming perf is not going up and the thermals are not solved...

Actually the brightest point of this release is something totally unexpected- 7740X which if oced to 5.3GHz is a nice beast. And surprisingly it has lower power consumption than standard 7700K. Nicely done Intel here.

I cant help myself to think that Intel overcomplicated itself. It is not that bad at all as in P4 era ( the only time I got an AMD cpu) but again the go for SIMD instead of doing something simple and good like with C2D or sandy. We need next sandy (amd did with ryzen nicely )



esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
Last edited by a moderator:

moonbogg

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2011
9,892
1,541
126
So, anyone still dismissing the TIM issue? Its an absolute catastrophe. I knew it would be the instant I heard about it. Just read Tom's review regarding temps. A high end AIO water cooler is the bare minimum to avoid ridiculous temps under load, at *stock frequencies*. A high end custom water loop crapped out at 4.6ghz, meaning it could not manage temps at 4.6ghz. That means in order to actually have temps that aren't absolutely frightening and irritating to look at, you must run the chip either stock or lightly overclocked, perhaps 4.3ghz. You will still have ugly temps under load when actually using all those cores.
Those hoping for a best of both worlds chip regarding single and multi core performance have been kicked to the curb, all thanks to Intel's rushed, hyper paranoid premature release of these chips and their completely hilarious decision to use thermal paste on a $1000 CPU. Don't even worry though guys, you can still TEAR OFF that heat spreader and direct die cool that sucker. If you can afford a $1000 CPU, I guess according to Intel you must not care about voiding warranty anyway, right? What a sad joke.

EDIT: I must add, this 10 core's thermal performance has me very excited to see just how much of an overpriced train wreck the 12-18 core parts turn out to be! This is exciting folks! Actually, those chips have to be soldered. There's no way around it. None.
 
Last edited:

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,634
591
136
Kaby-Lake X actually the new gaming king thanks to crazy OC?

I wish they had a 6 core version. Oh well.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,736
668
126
Since I'm consistent in caring about power ( = heat = noise ) I'm a little annoyed that intel now needs to push the power envelope to increase performance. Both the 7700K and now these X chips feel like "factory overclocked" CPUs to me. A little extra speed for a lot more power use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phynaz

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,569
226
106
They definitely do to me. Not at all attractive and a tiny bit baffling in some ways.

The lower powered variants of the 6 core stuff due out tempt me rather more.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,110
786
136
Intel has been using a "good enough" average power usage envelope that covers when a CPU starts to throttle away from boost for a long while. AMD getting tired of being compared to Intels not actual top power usage number tried to come up with an A(verage)DP power usage or something like that back in the Athlon X2 or Phenom days. AMD has since dropped that and just calls it TDP like Intel. Fact is neither number actually represents full/max power usage under load for their CPU's. Since both support thermal throttling, the TDP rating is more of a cooler recommendation rating than power rating.
Thats why i dont like comparing TDP of two brands AMD and Intel meassure them whatever they want. In my past experience Intel has been more accurate with it, for example using cheap pc cases with bad cooling, a 65W APU A8-7600 overheats the case like crazy, yet, the same case works just fine with a 7700.

Things seems to have reversed here.
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
738
334
106
EDIT: I must add, this 10 core's thermal performance has me very excited to see just how much of an overpriced train wreck the 12-18 core parts turn out to be! This is exciting folks! Actually, those chips have to be soldered. There's no way around it. None.
I think this is one of the reasons it is later than the up to 10C variants.

Ruining such a high tech piece of hardware with that TIM.....
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,110
786
136
They definitely do to me. Not at all attractive and a tiny bit baffling in some ways.

The lower powered variants of the 6 core stuff due out tempt me rather more.
I was looking at the 7800X, but the AVX-512 gimp it really turns me off, i think im going to wait for CFL-S.
 

Bassman2003

Member
Sep 14, 2009
94
14
71
So, anyone still dismissing the TIM issue? Its an absolute catastrophe. I knew it would be the instant I heard about it. Just read Tom's review regarding temps. A high end AIO water cooler is the bare minimum to avoid ridiculous temps under load, at *stock frequencies*. A high end custom water loop crapped out at 4.6ghz, meaning it could not manage temps at 4.6ghz. That means in order to actually have temps that aren't absolutely frightening and irritating to look at, you must run the chip either stock or lightly overclocked, perhaps 4.3ghz. You will still have ugly temps under load when actually using all those cores.
Those hoping for a best of both worlds chip regarding single and multi core performance have been kicked to the curb, all thanks to Intel's rushed, hyper paranoid premature release of these chips and their completely hilarious decision to use thermal paste on a $1000 CPU. Don't even worry though guys, you can still TEAR OFF that heat spreader and direct die cool that sucker. If you can afford a $1000 CPU, I guess according to Intel you must not care about voiding warranty anyway, right? What a sad joke.

EDIT: I must add, this 10 core's thermal performance has me very excited to see just how much of an overpriced train wreck the 12-18 core parts turn out to be! This is exciting folks! Actually, those chips have to be soldered. There's no way around it. None.
You were right. The paste has turned out to be a cost saving measure that might have brought the pricing down but has lost the enthusiast market. I guess Intel wanted to bring the price down with the increased competition from AMD. The temps are ridiculous and I will be looking into a delidded chip as I do think the 7900x is showing some nice performance increases. With a solid overclock in the 4.5-.4.6 range (with good temps) this is a great performing CPU.

Overall this heat situation is another sign we are at the limits of silicon and the wall of CPU performance is going to be there no matter what comes in the next generation.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,588
2,745
136
You were right. The paste has turned out to be a cost saving measure that might have brought the pricing down but has lost the enthusiast market. I guess Intel wanted to bring the price down with the increased competition from AMD. The temps are ridiculous and I will be looking into a delidded chip as I do think the 7900x is showing some nice performance increases. With a solid overclock in the 4.5-.4.6 range (with good temps) this is a great performing CPU.
It's looking like Silicon Lottery will be offering delidded Skylake-X CPUs at competitive prices (except for binned chips) with a 1 year warranty. If that comes to pass, it'll will be the best option for enthusiast overclockers, IMHO. For Kabylake-S, the overclocked temps came down 15-25 degrees C!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pick2

wildhorse2k

Member
May 12, 2017
180
82
71
Looks like this thread will be filled with Intel rage again.

The tweaktown review actually looks ok, Steven must have used the best BIOS compared to others and also setup things right:
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8225/intel-core-i9-7900x-series-skylake-cpu-review/index.html

Also consider benchmarks are run with 2666 memory and standard uncore frequency 2.4Ghz. Running with 3600-4000 memory and uncore ~2.8Ghz (I have seen one review where they did run it that high) will have further performance benefits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sweepr

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
20,886
9,083
136
  • Like
Reactions: Drazick

ManyThreads

Member
Mar 6, 2017
99
29
51
Well, since DDR4-2666 is the fastest the Intel chips can handle, overclocked or not (I am pretty sure) and AMD supports 3000 or better, I would guess the 3000 wen to the Ryzens
I thought the reviews already had working XMP profiles for 3200 Mhz, no?
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
20,886
9,083
136
I thought the reviews already had working XMP profiles for 3200 Mhz, no?
You mean for the Ryzens ? Those have been out for months. Again, not sure if Intel even works or is faster with faster than 2666 memory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drazick

wildhorse2k

Member
May 12, 2017
180
82
71
You mean for the Ryzens ? Those have been out for months. Again, not sure if Intel even works or is faster with faster than 2666 memory.
I saw a comment from Der8auer on his Skylake-X OC youtube video that 3600-4000 is possible depending on IMC with 7900X. During Computex 4800 got demonstrated with G.Skill memory on some ASRock X299 board, it didn't say which CPU.
 

ManyThreads

Member
Mar 6, 2017
99
29
51
You mean for the Ryzens ? Those have been out for months. Again, not sure if Intel even works or is faster with faster than 2666 memory.
No for Skylake-X. I thought one of the reviews I read today was already running stable 3200Mhz, and the mobo's are advertising really high 4000Mhz+ memory OC capability. I can't see Skylake-X being limited to 2666Mhz.
 

Edrick

Golden Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,909
196
106
I was looking at the 7800X, but the AVX-512 gimp it really turns me off, i think im going to wait for CFL-S.
That has to be the biggest disappointment today.

Everything else (performance/power/etc.) was kinda expected.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY