Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

AMD isn't hurting Intel enough yet, obviously.

Oh, they are. High end gaming just isn't important.

 

[TahoeDust]

Pretty stoked! Pre-ordered a 7900K + X299 Strix board from ShopBLT

Damn. I was tempted to do the same. Have you ordered from them before?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Damn. I was tempted to do the same. Have you ordered from them before?

Nope, first time!

 

[raghu78]

Because the enthusiast market is basically gamers/gaming. Extra cores help, but only so much. A 6C6T CFL is going to be decently faster in games than any Ryzen.

Definitely not. If you are just gaming you don't need any more than a 7700K clocked to 5 Ghz. I can bet 7700k at 5 Ghz and a CFL 6C/12T at 5+ Ghz will beat every Skylake-X CPU for majority of games today. People who do serious work which can benefit from lots of cores are the ones who would bother with a Skylake-X or even Threadripper. These users might have gaming as one of their use cases but definitely not the most important one.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Definitely not. If you are just gaming you don't need any more than a 7700K clocked to 5 Ghz. I can bet 7700k at 5 Ghz and a CFL 6C/12T at 5+ Ghz will beat every Skylake-X CPU for majority of games today. People who do serious work which can benefit from lots of cores are the ones who would bother with a Skylake-X or even Threadripper. These users might have gaming as one of their use cases but definitely not the most important one.

7700K is killer for games (I'm GPU limited, not CPU limited), and CFL should be a freaking monster -- 14nm++ should allow for some seriously cool frequency. If priced right, the 4C/8T CFL should be a heck of a value.

 

[raghu78]

7700K is killer for games (I'm GPU limited, not CPU limited), and CFL should be a freaking monster -- 14nm++ should allow for some seriously cool frequency. If priced right, the 4C/8T CFL should be a heck of a value.

I am keen to see what Intel does with Coffeelake. How many dies is Intel designing and what are the various SKUs and their pricing. If Intel bring unlocked 6C/12T at USD 350 they will become the first choice for almost the majority of users . CFL 6C/12T at 5+ Ghz could even catch up with R7 8C/16T at 4 Ghz in multi threaded apps while having a dominant single thread performance lead. AMD will have to come back with a strong response with Zen on 14nm+ in Q1 2018. If the process related improvements can add another 600-700 Mhz that would again make Ryzen very competitive. I am hoping AMD Ryzen can match atleast Bristol Ridge which clocked 4.7 Ghz quite easily. I do think at 7nm AMD can really bring huge improvements in microarchitecture as they would have a massive increase in transistor budget and a decent transistor performance increase. The next few years are going to be exciting with Intel and AMD generations launching almost non stop.

CFL - Aug 2017
Pinnacle Ridge - Q1 2018
Cascade Lake-X - Q3 2018
Icelake - Q4 2018 or Q1 2019
Zen 2 - H1 2019
Tigerlake - H1 2020
Zen 3 - H1 2020

 

[Arachnotronic]

I am keen to see what Intel does with Coffeelake. How many dies is Intel designing and what are the various SKUs and their pricing. If Intel bring unlocked 6C/12T at USD 350 they will become the first choice for almost the majority of users . CFL 6C/12T at 5+ Ghz could even catch up with R7 8C/16T at 4 Ghz in multi threaded apps while having a dominant single thread performance lead. AMD will have to come back with a strong response with Zen on 14nm+ in Q1 2018. If the process related improvements can add another 600-700 Mhz that would again make Ryzen very competitive. I am hoping AMD Ryzen can match atleast Bristol Ridge which clocked 4.7 Ghz quite easily. I do think at 7nm AMD can really bring huge improvements in microarchitecture as they would have a massive increase in transistor budget and a decent transistor performance. The next few years are going to be exciting with Intel and AMD generations launching almost non stop.

CFL - Aug 2017
Pinnacle Ridge - Q1 2018
Cascade Lake-X - Q3 2018
Icelake - Q4 2018 or Q1 2019
Zen 2 - H1 2019
Tigerlake - H1 2020
Zen 3 - H1 2020

Ice just taped out, so if you assume ~1yr from tape out to availability, that should put Ice in 2H 2018

 

[raghu78]

Ice just taped out, so if you assume ~1yr from tape out to availability, that should put Ice in 2H 2018

Icelake taped in and not taped out.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-announces-cannon-lake-on-track-ice-lake-has-taped-in.html
https://twitter.com/intelnews/status/872844756845379584

I would say they are atleast 15-18 months away from actual production. The key here is Intel's 10nm+ yield ramp and how that progresses. Intel 10nm is a disaster with not even a semblance of any high volume product unlike Intel 14nm which was in much better shape and we saw Broadwell launch in desktops and high performance notebooks. Cannonlake is a low volume tablet and a ultrathin only product. I think Intel has a lot of proving to do with their execution at 10+ and future generations.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Icelake taped in and not taped out.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-announces-cannon-lake-on-track-ice-lake-has-taped-in.html
https://twitter.com/intelnews/status/872844756845379584

I would say they are atleast 15-18 months away from actual production. The key here is Intel's 10nm+ yield ramp and how that progresses. Intel 10nm is a disaster with not even a semblance of any high volume product unlike Intel 14nm which was in much better shape and we saw Broadwell launch in desktops and high performance notebooks. Cannonlake is a low volume tablet and a ultrathin only product. I think Intel has a lot of proving to do with their execution at 10+ and future generations.

Coffee Lake taped in ~November 2016 (https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...icroarchitecture.2489451/page-2#post-38580224) and we're going to see it available for purchase in August 2017 -- less than a year delta.

If Ice taped in, say, May 31, 2017 then there's a possibility we could see it in August/September of 2018, possibly much sooner if it's a 10nm part and not a 10nm+ part.

 

[DooKey]

Oh, they are. High end gaming just isn't important.

LOL

 

[TahoeDust]

Nope, first time!

Damn! Gutsy! I like it!

Has anyone here ever pre-ordered or ordered from shopblt.com?

 

[raghu78]

Coffee Lake taped in ~November 2016 (https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...icroarchitecture.2489451/page-2#post-38580224) and we're going to see it available for purchase in August 2017 -- less than a year delta.

If Ice taped in, say, May 31, 2017 then there's a possibility we could see it in August/September of 2018, possibly much sooner if it's a 10nm part and not a 10nm+ part.

There is a difference between a 3rd gen Intel 14nm++ ramp which has more than 2 yrs of successful ramp at 14nm with 2 generations - 14nm and 14nm+ (tens of millions of Skylake chips shipped) and a 10nm process which Intel cannot even ship in any volume this year . The volume of chips Intel shipped between Q3 2014 and Q3 2016 is incomparable to the meager volume of Cannonlake chips shipping in H1 2018. Frankly expecting miracles over a 6 month period is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Charlie had a dig at the Intel announcement. You cannot blame him when Intel 10nm is an unmitigated disaster.

https://twitter.com/intelnews/status/872844756845379584

Charlie Demerjian‏ @CDemerjian Jun 8
Replying to @intelnews @witeken @IntelCeleron
Bwahahaha! When you know yields you should not be drinking anything when #Intel tries to PR.

witeken‏ @witeken Jun 8
The big ramp will be Icelake, so they still got a year or so to get those up to snuff..

Charlie Demerjian‏ @CDemerjian Jun 8
I assume you are tying to be funny.

Right now Intel has a lot of proving to do with 10+ Icelake and the next few generations. I am thinking a more realistic launch window for Icelake is Q4 2018. If Intel cannot get 10+ in good shape quickly then it will slip into 2019.

 

[Ajay]

Pretty stoked! Pre-ordered a 7900K + X299 Strix board from ShopBLT

I hope you have some solid cooling, if you plan to overclock! I'm sure you'll keep us up to date on your experience

 

[Ajay]

Coffee Lake taped in ~November 2016 (https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...icroarchitecture.2489451/page-2#post-38580224) and we're going to see it available for purchase in August 2017 -- less than a year delta.

If Ice taped in, say, May 31, 2017 then there's a possibility we could see it in August/September of 2018, possibly much sooner if it's a 10nm part and not a 10nm+ part.

I would think it's 10nm+, otherwise, there will be a frequency regression compared to CFL. Anyway, the future has a tendency to reveal itself

Edit: extra plus

 

[Arachnotronic]

I would think it's 10nm++, otherwise, there will be a frequency regression compared to CFL. Anyway, the future has a tendency to reveal itself

10nm++ is too late for Ice Lake. I think it'll either be 10nm or 10nm+.

You know, I wouldn't rule out a mid-2018 10nm Ice Lake launch, then mid-2019 10nm+ Tiger Lake launch, then mid-2020 for the next Lake on 10nm++. 7nm is 2021 for client anyway.

Alternatively, there could be a 10nm CNL, 10nm+ ICL, 10nm+ TGL, and then 10nm++ part.

 

[coercitiv]

I don't see how a 6 core CPU without HT makes any sense at all in todays market. Seriously. With 8/16 CPU's being $300 now and 6/12's going for $200, why would anyone be interested in a 6 core 6 thread CPU? Performance would be right around where a 4/8 CPU would be. What a pointless and silly product to release. If Intel releases a 6/6 i5 chip, they will get laughed right out of the market.

Take whatever MT dominant benchmark you want (games, encoding, rendering etc) increase the score 7700K gets at stock clocks by around 20-25% then replace it with next gen i5 naming. Now see if that still makes you laugh.

 

[Carfax83]

Definitely not. If you are just gaming you don't need any more than a 7700K clocked to 5 Ghz. I can bet 7700k at 5 Ghz and a CFL 6C/12T at 5+ Ghz will beat every Skylake-X CPU for majority of games today. People who do serious work which can benefit from lots of cores are the ones who would bother with a Skylake-X or even Threadripper. These users might have gaming as one of their use cases but definitely not the most important one.

When is this myth ever going to die? It's like we are still stuck in 2010 or something. Current gen consoles forced developers to parallelize their engines using the task based parallelism model. That coupled with the increase in multithreaded aware drivers has actually given higher core count CPUs the advantage in gaming.

Observe:

Source

The whole point of owning an Intel HEDT CPU, is that you don't have to sacrifice gaming performance for productivity, or vice versa. You can have your cake and eat it too.

 

[coercitiv]

When is this myth ever going to die?

It will die exactly on 6c/12t CFL review day, when the marketing machine will finally give the execution a green light. Until then the 7700K is on the best life support money can buy.

 

[mikk]

Ah, so there's a new 80 watt part. That explains the 81W 6-core sneak peek.

I don't think so. 81.2W is a typical output for 65W Skylake/Kabylake. You can find plenty of 65W Skylake/Kabylake with 81.2W in Sisoft.

http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d4ecddecd5e3d6f082bf8fa9cca994a482f1ccf4&l=en
http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d4ecddecd5e3d0f684b989afcaaf92a284f7caf2&l=en
http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d4ecddefdee9dff98bb686a0c5a09dad8bf8c5fd&l=en
http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d4ecddefd7e5dcfa88b585a3c6a39eae88fbc6fe&l=en
http://ranker.sisoftware.net/show_r...d4ecdce4d0e2dbfd8fb282a4c1a499a98ffcc1f9&l=en


And according to Intels seminar with the Roadmap there are only 65W and 95W SKUs coming, this is consistent with my source. No mention of 80W.

 

[mikk]

Genuine Intel(R) CPU 0000 @ 2.80GHz (4C 8T 3.81GHz, 3.5GHz IMC, 4x 256kB L2, 6MB L3)

This is a good hint, I mean that the CPU is an early ES. If it is Kabylake-G I would expect this at this point.

It's not really an IGP though - think of it more as a discrete GPU within a CPU package (which is also much bigger).

My thought. Intel Gen9 with a discrete AMD GPU, the slides from benchlife were clear on this.

So there can be two active GPUs Intels Gen9 and AMDs discrete, as seen in the Sisoft entry.

 

[ZGR]

7700K is killer for games (I'm GPU limited, not CPU limited), and CFL should be a freaking monster -- 14nm++ should allow for some seriously cool frequency. If priced right, the 4C/8T CFL should be a heck of a value.

7700k is great for gaming, but it is severely bottlenecked once you start to stream and game, record and game, and especially record and stream at the same time. More cores are needed.

Looking at newer games supporting more than 4 cores, the 7700k looks dated! 4 core CFL seems like a bad idea to me.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

8Pack from OCUK, who bins both upcoming chips for selling and is an avid overclocker, had this to say after his testing, and I think those interested in buying will be pleased:

X299 Skylake X is clocking like a monster on ambient. Well at least the 10-12 cores are. QS ES 14-18 not ready yet. So believe me Intel can easily reach and way outperform what Thread ripper is offering in terms of clocks and performance. Obviously the cost will be higher even for a lower core count if you go with Intel but performance higher per core and OC headroom much better.

Man they will clock good dont you worry about that. Intel are not playing here. I am talking all Cores 24-7 prime non-avx stable. I dont run any benches on X299 Skylake X CPUs that don't benefit high cores and HT. 12 Core 5.9ghz LN2 NO PROBLEM and thats with quad channel mems 4000mhz C12-12-12-26 1T....... Remember 8 Core Ryzen is struggling to hit more than 5.2ghz+ with much lower RAM under the same cooling and benches............

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/30867993

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/30868046

 

[tamz_msc]

der8auer i9 7900X OC with delid:

He expects an average 4.7-4.8GHz on an average retail CPU with delid and a good AIO.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Is that a new video or the Computex one? Not really interested in what he expects, but more in so in what those who have it already achieved

 

[tamz_msc]

It's a new video. He got 5GHz with a "pre-tested" CPU running Prime95 with delid and temperatures hovered at 88 degrees. He says that average retail samples should do 4.7GHz after a delid.