Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Investigating a bit more...

Coffee Lake-S = IMVP8

From Richtek Vcore Product Selection List for Intel and AMD platforms:

Skylake = IMVP8
Kaby Lake = IMVP8
Ice Lake = IMVP9
Tiger Lake = IMVP9


Now here's the interesting part, who remmembers the original 300-series chipsets leak from BenchLife?



CPU VR = IMVP8/9

Next year's 300-series chipsets LGA 1151 motherboards might support next-generation Intel products. Now why do I say 2018 MBs and not this year's Z270/Z370 MBs? Let's go back to this DigiTimes article:

DigiTimes said:
Since Intel's Z370 chipsets, which will be paired with the CPU giant's next-generation Coffee Lake processors, will not natively support USB 3.1, Lin expects demand for its USB 3.1 chips from motherboard players to rise.

In addition to SATA-, PCIe- and USB 3.1-related product lines, ASMedia has also been promoting its RAID and PCIe bridge chip products in the industrial PC (IPC) and network storage markets.

In anticipation of Intel's next-generation 300-series chipsets which are expected to natively support USB 3.1 and are scheduled to be released in 2018, ASMedia has already begun developing USB 3.2-related products to maintain its revenue growth, related solutions should be ready for launch in 2018.
As you can see in BenchLife's diagram, the chipset listed with IMVP8/9 CPU VR support above seems to natively support USB 3.1, which is not the case for Z370, only next year's products. According to DrMOLA this updated chipset lineup includes Z390, Q370, Q360, B360, H370 and H310.
 
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Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
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So there is going to be a Z370 this year and a Z390 next year?? Why is Intel doing this?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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So there is going to be a Z370 this year and a Z390 next year?? Why is Intel doing this?
Because almost everyone buys a new motherboard with a new CPU. You have to keep in mind that the posters on these forums who want a new CPU without a new motherboard are in the extreme minority.

A CPU/motherboard that you can sell to thousands of people now is worth more than losing those customers and CPU sales because you are waiting for a chipset to be finished to appease that extreme minority.
 
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jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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That Richtek document doesn't mention Icelake-S even though it mentions H/U/Y ...

So there is going to be a Z370 this year and a Z390 next year?? Why is Intel doing this?
Because they are rushing out Coffee Lake-S, and Z390 isn't ready. So they hacked up Z270 to support Coffee Lake to be able to release it in August.
 

TheF34RChannel

Senior member
May 18, 2017
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Skylake-X Now Available For Pre-Order in the US

http://www.shopblt.com/search/order_id=825403410&s_max=25&t_all=1&s_all=BX80673&search=Search


Intel® Processor Pricing Effective Jun 07, 2017 Recommended Customer Price Tray Units


i9-7900X (13.75M cache, 10 Cores, 20 Threads, 3.30 GHz, 14nm) - $989
i7-7820X (11M cache, 8 Cores, 16 Threads, 3.60 GHz, 14nm) - $589
i7-7800X (8.25M cache, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 3.50 GHz, 14nm) - $383
i7-7740X (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 4.30 GHz, 14nm) - $339
i5-7640X (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 4.00 GHz, 14nm) $242

https://s21.q4cdn.com/600692695/fil...7_Recommended_Customer_Price_List_updated.pdf
Good of Intel to lower its prices, but a measly $10 US reduction is laughable. They should have added another 0. Nevertheless, thanks for posting!! Monday...
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
6,408
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Good of Intel to lower its prices, but a measly $10 US reduction is laughable. They should have added another 0. Nevertheless, thanks for posting!! Monday...
Well, the 7700K and 7600K are still at the top of the Amazon/Newegg sales lists even with the retailer Ryzen price cuts. So rushing out Coffee Lake and returning prices to Haswell levels is all you are gonna get.
 
Mar 11, 2000
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Here's my uneducated guess to the Coffee Lake desktop lineup after considering your comment:

Core i7: All 6-core, with HT
i7-8750X 112 Watts
i7-8700K 91 Watts
i7-8700 65 Watts
i7-8700T 35 Watts

Core i5: 4-core or 6-core, no HT
i5-8650X 112 Watts - 6-core
i5-8650K 91 Watts - 6-core
i5-8650 65 Watts - 6-core
i5-8600 65 Watts - 4-core
i5-8600T 35 Watts - 4-core
i5-8500 65 Watts - 4-core
i5-8500T 35 Watts - 4-core
i5-8400 65 Watts - 4-core
i5-8400T 35 Watts - 4-core
Going by that table, how about this then?



Core i7: All 6-core, with HT

i7-8750X 95 Watts
i7-8720K 80 Watts
i7-8720 65 Watts
i7-8720T 35 Watts

Core i5: 4-core or 6-core, no HT

i5-8650X 95 Watts - 6-core
i5-8620K 80 Watts - 6-core
i5-8620 65 Watts - 6-core
I5-8620T 35 Watts - 6-core

i5-8500 65 Watts - 4-core
i5-8500T 35 Watts - 4-core
i5-8400 65 Watts - 4-core
i5-8400T 35 Watts - 4-core
 
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Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
5,155
191
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Well, the 7700K and 7600K are still at the top of the Amazon/Newegg sales lists even with the retailer Ryzen price cuts. So rushing out Coffee Lake and returning prices to Haswell levels is all you are gonna get.
Yeah, well, maybe next year (if AMD has enough capacity and can manage a 10% bump in clocks). AMD seems to be doing better in Europe, for whatever reason. I'm looking forward to competition to eventual bring better prices across the board, if that happens, maybe DIY/Gaming PC sales will even increase.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
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That Richtek document doesn't mention Icelake-S even though it mentions H/U/Y ...



Because they are rushing out Coffee Lake-S, and Z390 isn't ready. So they hacked up Z270 to support Coffee Lake to be able to release it in August.
Thanks - makes sense. I wonder if Z390 will support Ice Lake? Though, I do have to admit, when Skylake came out without PCIe 4.0 support and no improvements in DMI, I hoped Intel would step up on Cannon Lake (now Ice Lake as the former is farked)
 

moonbogg

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2011
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I don't see how a 6 core CPU without HT makes any sense at all in todays market. Seriously. With 8/16 CPU's being $300 now and 6/12's going for $200, why would anyone be interested in a 6 core 6 thread CPU? Performance would be right around where a 4/8 CPU would be. What a pointless and silly product to release. If Intel releases a 6/6 i5 chip, they will get laughed right out of the market. The only thing that makes less sense than that is releasing a 4/4 and 4/8 chip on their XTREME PLATFORM, which they totally just did. So actually I guess any product is possible for Intel, just as long as it finds a way to give the customer less for their money. That seems to be the leading criteria for product development these days for them.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
4,845
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Well, the 7700K and 7600K are still at the top of the Amazon/Newegg sales lists even with the retailer Ryzen price cuts. So rushing out Coffee Lake and returning prices to Haswell levels is all you are gonna get.
This is a hilarious thought process. Even if every single Home system builder thought that Ryzen was better. By sheer supply alone Intel will always sell more. Sure Ryzen had a couple weeks on the top with all the pent up desire and interest in the product prior to launch. But AMD is never going to outsell Intel anytime soon and they know it. Its part of the reason they are trying to push Zen into as many markets as quickly as they can. Not to strangle out Intel. But allow themselves to be profitible by having a 5-10-15% market share in those markets.

It reminds me of what Steve Jobs said when he turned Apple around. When he came back in the first thing he needed to get rid of was this idea employees and customers had that made them think beating Microsoft was the only way they could survive. For Apple to be successful MS had to die.

There doesn't need to be an Intel killer, there doesn't need to be a i7 killer. They don't need to outsell Intel to be successful and they aren't going to top the charts on Amazon with any kind of consistency.

It's like saying the XboxOne is a failure because 4 years in they have only sold ~30 million units. The product leader isn't the only successful option and the idea that there can only be one is going to kill whatever market you are talking about. This isn't Highlander.

To that regard it doesn't take Intel all of sudden not really selling any i7's to see a downturn in the market that would drive them to lower prices.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
5,155
191
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I don't see how a 6 core CPU without HT makes any sense at all in todays market. Seriously. With 8/16 CPU's being $300 now and 6/12's going for $200, why would anyone be interested in a 6 core 6 thread CPU? Performance would be right around where a 4/8 CPU would be. What a pointless and silly product to release. If Intel releases a 6/6 i5 chip, they will get laughed right out of the market. The only thing that makes less sense than that is releasing a 4/4 and 4/8 chip on their XTREME PLATFORM, which they totally just did. So actually I guess any product is possible for Intel, just as long as it finds a way to give the customer less for their money. That seems to be the leading criteria for product development these days for them.
AMD isn't hurting Intel enough yet, obviously. The whole PC supply chain has been almost totally oriented around Intel since the Bulldozer disaster that it will take time to change. That, and Intel does way more marketing than AMD.

Edit - and Intel still has major sway with gamers and a lead in IPC. AMD is close, but this isn't horseshoes.
 
Mar 11, 2000
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I don't see how a 6 core CPU without HT makes any sense at all in todays market. Seriously. With 8/16 CPU's being $300 now and 6/12's going for $200, why would anyone be interested in a 6 core 6 thread CPU? Performance would be right around where a 4/8 CPU would be. What a pointless and silly product to release. If Intel releases a 6/6 i5 chip, they will get laughed right out of the market. The only thing that makes less sense than that is releasing a 4/4 and 4/8 chip on their XTREME PLATFORM, which they totally just did. So actually I guess any product is possible for Intel, just as long as it finds a way to give the customer less for their money. That seems to be the leading criteria for product development these days for them.
I would buy a 6/6 machine if it was the same price as the previous year's 4/4 chip.

In fact you guys here had me second guessing my 4/4 lower-mid-i5 order this year instead of waiting a year for an upper-mid-6/6 next year at the higher price of the current corresponding model... but the logical portion of my brain realizes I can get that same performance right now (and even better in many instances) by spending a little bit more and jumping to today's 4/8 i7.
 

moonbogg

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2011
9,756
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AMD isn't hurting Intel enough yet, obviously. The whole PC supply chain has been almost totally oriented around Intel since the Bulldozer disaster that it will take time to change. That, and Intel does way more marketing than AMD.

Edit - and Intel still has major sway with gamers and a lead in IPC. AMD is close, but this isn't horseshoes.
I feel the SkylakeX lineup is a good one, but its still too expensive for what you get. If performance is close to other options, then pricing has to be close as well, which it isn't. A 6 core chip coming in at $400 today is just ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. That's almost the same price as the 6800K was, a little cheaper yeah, but not by much. The 6800K existed in yesterworld and was priced according to the conditions of yesterworld. How can another 6 core be priced similarly? It shouldn't be. Intel's new 6 core chip should come in at $300 tops, but $280 would make more sense. Its going to be a little faster than other options and will support quad channel memory, so those things command a premium, but not TWICE THE PRICE! Its almost TWICE the cost of other options, and that whole double the price thing has become a common theme lately and will likely stay that way. It not justified and will result in less Intel chips sold.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
6,408
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I don't see how a 6 core CPU without HT makes any sense at all in todays market.
Because the enthusiast market is basically gamers/gaming. Extra cores help, but only so much. A 6C6T CFL is going to be decently faster in games than any Ryzen.
 
Apr 27, 2000
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i9-7900X (13.75M cache, 10 Cores, 20 Threads, 3.30 GHz, 14nm) - $989
i7-7820X (11M cache, 8 Cores, 16 Threads, 3.60 GHz, 14nm) - $589
i7-7800X (8.25M cache, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 3.50 GHz, 14nm) - $383
i7-7740X (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 4.30 GHz, 14nm) - $339
i5-7640X (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 4.00 GHz, 14nm) $242
So no prices yet for the 12c part? They aren't going to even launch that?!?
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
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So no prices yet for the 12c part? They aren't going to even launch that?!?
Not sure how you came to that conclusion but the prices obviously refer to the CPUs launching this month. Since the first DigiTimes it's been known that 12C Skylake-X comes in August.
 
Apr 27, 2000
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Hmm, wonder why the 1-month delay? Odd.

When do they launch the 14-18c parts?
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
2
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Hmm, wonder why the 1-month delay? Odd.

When do they launch the 14-18c parts?
From Intel's fact sheet: ''Scalability with 10, 8, 6, and 4 cores (18, 16, 14, and 12 cores coming soon!)''

Remmember 12-core and above are based on the same MCC die, so probably not too far apart. The post that originated the '2018' rumor was later edited and now says later this year as well.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
22,209
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A 6 core chip coming in at $400 today is just ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. That's almost the same price as the 6800K was, a little cheaper yeah, but not by much.
The 7800X is priced almost the same as the 6800K because it is almost the same exact chip. Both are 6 core/12 thread. Both are quad DDR4 2400. Both are for single chip computers. Both are 140 W TDP. Both are 28 PCI lanes. The 7800X is a tiny bit faster base clock, a slightly faster turbo, a favored core, and tweaked cache. But it is basically the same chip.

Intel was selling plenty of 6800K chips and offering a bit more speed for a bit lower price is enough for Intel. They'll redo the pricing when there is actually a significant change to the chip.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
6,071
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Well, it says gen9, so I think the IGP is just the regular Intel Gen 9/9.5 IGP. The 1720Sps are the AMD video card.
Going beyond the fact that it's not Kabylake-G, it doesn't change anything that a 200mm2 on package GPU(which for all intents and purposes is an iGPU, same as Clarkdale was an iGPU) will make the costs and TDP rise substantially. In this case more than double. And we'll need to add expensive HBM stacks on tip of that.

It's already in leaked information that KBL-G has Gen 9 as well. A very rushed thing if it exists.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
5,155
191
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Going beyond the fact that it's not Kabylake-G, it doesn't change anything that a 200mm2 on package GPU(which for all intents and purposes is an iGPU, same as Clarkdale was an iGPU) will make the costs and TDP rise substantially. In this case more than double. And we'll need to add expensive HBM stacks on tip of that.

It's already in leaked information that KBL-G has Gen 9 as well. A very rushed thing if it exists.
If there is such a chip, seems like using really fast DDR4 soldered onto the mobo would help (like DDR-4000+).
Or, using GDDR 5/5x/6 would definitely do the trick - though not cheap.
 


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