Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[RichUK]

If one's intentions are 90% gaming do y'all think a binned (5.1GHz) and delided 7700k will outperform the incoming 7820x?

With the new Turbo 3, in theory, will I be able to overclock 1-2 cores of the 7820x to 5.0+ GHz making it just as capable as the 7700k in games that don't take advantage of the extra cores? Basically rivaling the 7700k at what that chip excels in, but also have all the extra cores when I want them?

I'd recommend just waiting until coffee lake comes out to be fair, given your usage is predominantly gaming.

6 cores with the hope it can reach around 5ghz OC on 14nm++.

It's due to launch in August, so not long to wait.

 

[aigomorla]

INB4 Dongle to allow overclocking...
and INB4 again for dongle to allow SLI.


(sigh intel...)

This is how us gamers fell about DLC's.... Stupid intel thinks we like DLC's and trying to put it on hardware?

 

[RichUK]

Be interesting if this dongle thing can be hacked / worked around.

 

[TahoeDust]

I'd recommend just waiting until coffee lake comes out to be fair, given your usage is predominantly gaming.

6 cores with the hope it can reach around 5ghz OC on 14nm++.

It's due to launch in August, so not long to wait.

I'm buying this month. I have been in the " just wait until XYZ" pattern for about 5 years. Money is not a problem and if Coffee Lake is super awesome, I will upgrade again.

 

[AtenRa]

People, if you dont like it dont buy, simple as that.

This is why competition is good, we have more than one orange to choose from

 

[dark zero]

And BAM.... The 12 core and above chips are delayed... And the 18 one until next year.... Oh Intel, why?

http://wccftech.com/intels-skylake-x-core-i9-7980x-wont-be-available-until-next-year/

And seems that AMD got saved this time... Wondering if the Platinum series of Intel got delayed too...

 

[formulav8]

I am still leaning to AMD's platform tho because i dont approve of how they neutered the x299.

Typical Intel. Nothing surprising. They had scratch off cards before that you could buy for $50 to unlock HT on some non-HT chips and I think 1 more mb of cache or something.

 

[formulav8]

And the 18 one until next year.... Oh Intel, why?

That up to 18-core was more likely mentioned by Intel than anything else to try and steal some TR thunder. But I thought up to 12 core would be available when the platformed launched? Not sure about that site though.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Why are people buying luxury home computer parts, and driving a trailer park 1080 monitor?

I, for one, and buying . . . . semi-luxury (???) home computer parts with the best "flatscreen" 4:3 monitor I can get. Short of one of those 7" build-it-yourself Adafruit monitors that can hit 2048x1536.

Someday I'll have to break down and get 4k or whatever it is that gets me more than 1200 vertical pixels (1080p is a regression, bleh). But 16:9 sucks. Stupid movie studios.

As far as Intel goes . . . they're actually producing a pretty good product here, but it's obvious that they're going out of their way to alientate people in the process, whether or not they mean it. The whole dongle thing is ridiculous, and if they can't get more than 10c chips out at launch for X299 then they're in trouble, with or without that other company nipping at their heels.

If one's intentions are 90% gaming do y'all think a binned (5.1GHz) and delided 7700k will outperform the incoming 7820x?

Probably. Actually I think you should be looking at a binned, delidded Coffeelake but I digress.

That up to 18-core was more likely mentioned by Intel than anything else to try and steal some TR thunder. But I thought up to 12 core would be available when the platformed launched? Not sure about that site though.

12c die will be the same as the 18c die. Unless there's just gonna be sloppy binning at the start, I would expect the absence of one to denote the absence of the other.

 

[TahoeDust]

I wanted to upgrade months ago and it was "Wait for skylake x"...now it's "Wait for coffee lake"...

 

[Sweepr]

And BAM.... The 12 core and above chips are delayed... And the 18 one until next year.... Oh Intel, why?

Raja@ASUS now says Core i9-7980XE is scheduled for later this year. According to DigiTimes, the source that originally leaked Intel's plans to push forward Skylake-X & Coffee Lake-S (spot on so far), Core i9-7920X will be out in August (same die).

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?93632-Late-June&p=653561&viewfull=1#post653561

 

[VirtualLarry]

So, what are the odds that Coffee Lake's platform will require a "RAID dongle" too? If Intel ports their (firmware-based?) NVMe RAID feature to that platform too. (Only have two M.2 Ultra slots though?)

 

[Ferzerp]

Why do your posts always show a bunch of parked CPU cores? Could it be that Cinebench is the wrong choice to test these many-core processors? The price ($4200) is decent though and much lower than the $12000 figures we were quoted earlier. However, it does look like the 26/28C parts will not be replacing the E5-2699v4's price point. Perhaps it was too much to wish for (27% uplift), and the top core counts will be reserved for E7 replacements.

Last time I checked (it's been a few years though), cinebench was unaware of processor groups. It made it worthless for anything with >64 logical cores. If that's still the case, then it is still true. Also, this doesn't mean you will use 64 cores. For example, in the case I was testing, there were 80 available, which meant they were split in to two groups of 40.

 

[mikk]

That up to 18-core was more likely mentioned by Intel than anything else to try and steal some TR thunder. But I thought up to 12 core would be available when the platformed launched? Not sure about that site though.

12C is scheduled for August, there is no delay. 12C wasn't even planned some time ago.

 

[jpiniero]

Yeah, I'm rather confident the original lineup was the same as Broadwell (6,6,8,10). Then they added the 12. Then they (very very recently) added the 14,16,18.

 

[Shivansps]

Yeah, I'm rather confident the original lineup was the same as Broadwell (6,6,8,10). Then they added the 12. Then they (very very recently) added the 14,16,18.

Its very diferent from the past in the way that X99 was also used for Workstations, now they have segmented Workstation and HEDT, they finaly realised they could make big money out of HEDT maket whiout placing at risk Workstation and server CPU sales... so they went all in.

Is not the same as before as a X99 could support anything up to the max Xeon E5 one. Im sure this was all planned from the moment they decided to do such segmentations.

 

[2blzd]

Ive been reading and posting on this site since its inception and it's been a long, long, LOOONG time since things were this interesting..Probably since Conroe and Nehalem were released...This is great stuff. I'll admit that I lean blue but its nice to see them get challenged (and beat) again.

The last time Intel got caught with its pants down by AMD, we got Conroe. This time it looks like we're getting a band-aid in the short term with >10c Sky-X skus. Hopefully whatever comes after Skylake and Coffee-Lake will reap the benefits of renewed competition and a challenged Intel.


Sky-X from the very start was always planned to be a 10c max part. That is until AMD announced Threadripper. 12c was never in the original plan.

 

[Zucker2k]

459$ CPU+120$ mITX MoBo+16 GB RAM 170$ =649$.
599$+(at least) 199$ mITX MoBo + 140$ 2666 MHz quad channel RAM. 940$. Its not 100-150$ more.

Intel has to feed their fabs with money, thats why the price it so high.

Is it worth to pay 300$ more for at best 10% higher performance?

$300? That's actually not bad.

Even if you throw out such things as AVX-512, Quad-Channel Memory Controller, Extra PCIE Lanes, the more quality motherboards and components and the general stability of the Intel HEDT platform, you're still left with a cpu to cpu comparison. Here, base is 3.6ghz vs 4.0ghz. That's 8x 400mhz + HT, translating into 3.2Ghz extra processing power. Turbo is 4ghz vs 4.3ghz, with another 200mhz for a 4.5ghz 2-core turbo. With AMD, you're stuck at 4.0Ghz overclock, while the Intel potentially offers more - certainly, 4.5Ghz should be minimum as it's only 200mhz above turbo frequency. Taking Intel's superior ipc plus all the goodies mentioned above into consideration, the 7820X is more appealing to me.

If you go Ryzen 1700 vs i9 7820X, the frequency gap increases dramatically: 8x 800mhz (7.4ghz + HT more processing power) at base, 8x 700mhz at turbo clocks, and 4.5ghz 2 -core turbo the 7820X. Overclocking is 3.7 - 3.8Ghz vs 4.3 - 4.5Ghz. Add ipc and extra Intel HEDT features and again, things don't look as bad as some would have you think. And this is even without the Intel tax

Finally, those $120, feature-limited boards people bring into these comparisons actually doesn't help but reinforce AMD's "cheapo" image in many minds. It is also quite dishonest. HEDT is just that, HEDT, and Intel's HEDT boards are built like tanks, to endure the demands of multicore processors, quad-core and extra IO and PCIE lanes. Proper comparisons would be the X370 and Taichi boards. If I were to build an AMD system, I wouldn't be considering any feature-limited boards. So for me, the point is really moot - i9 7820X all the way! It's price/performance ratio is not as bad as it seems. It's in fact, great value for the performance and features you get when compared to the competition, and that includes the Ryzen 1700.

 

[Shivansps]

Ive been reading and posting on this site since its inception and it's been a long, long, LOOONG time since things were this interesting..Probably since Conroe and Nehalem were released...This is great stuff. I'll admit that I lean blue but its nice to see them get challenged (and beat) again.

The last time Intel got caught with its pants down by AMD, we got Conroe. This time it looks like we're getting a band-aid in the short term with >10c Sky-X skus. Hopefully whatever comes after Skylake and Coffee-Lake will reap the benefits of renewed competition and a challenged Intel.


Sky-X from the very start was always planned to be a 10c max part. That is until AMD announced Threadripper. 12c was never in the original plan.

So what you are saying that a early 10C max rumor turned out to be fake? what a suprise.

They did a mess with the segmentation only to ensure SKL-X is no threat to Workstation and server chips BEFORE scaling up in cores.... all that BS was no needed if SKL-X was 10C max.

 

[mikk]

So what you are saying that a early 10C max rumor turned out to be fake? what a suprise.

He didn't say it was a fake. Initially Skylake-X was planned with max 10 cores, that plan changed at some point this year.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Yeah, I know. I wasn't sure who to quote about the apparent confusion. It doesn't help that this misrepresented idea that Intel is charging for something that is and was free on all other and previous platforms is on all avenues of discussion I have seen about Skylake-X.

Because people in general have a twisted need to find as much fault as they can on something they have no intention of buying/were never interested in/don't or cannot support for whatever reason? We've had pages and pages about tim vs. solder and PCIe lanes, now it's a dongle, tomorrow it's going to be the PCB colour.

That up to 18-core was more likely mentioned by Intel than anything else to try and steal some TR thunder. But I thought up to 12 core would be available when the platformed launched? Not sure about that site though.

No the 12C was always going to come later. August.

I wanted to upgrade months ago and it was "Wait for skylake x"...now it's "Wait for coffee lake"...

Buying into Skylake-X will provide you with upgrade options for this line-up and whatever X series comes after this one, whereas Coffee Lake is probably the end of the line. - Assuming Coffee Lake-X or Cannonlake-X aren't scrapped.

Raja@ASUS now says Core i9-7980XE is scheduled for later this year. According to DigiTimes, the source that originally leaked Intel's plans to push forward Skylake-X & Coffee Lake-S (spot on so far), Core i9-7920X will be out in August (same die).

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?93632-Late-June&p=653561&viewfull=1#post653561

Not really convinced by what a forum mod said about such matters

====

This still remains a very weird launch though; those KBL-X shouldn't exist, period. To whom are the 7920X, 7840X and 7860X aimed? I don't see anyone buying those but rather opt for the nearest part above or below it. Thinking they're just there so something is there.

 

[imported_ats]

INB4 Dongle to allow overclocking...
and INB4 again for dongle to allow SLI.


(sigh intel...)

This is how us gamers fell about DLC's.... Stupid intel thinks we like DLC's and trying to put it on hardware?

See that's the thing, for as much as people bitch about DLC, they still almost all buy it. So much so, that most games make more from the DLC than from the initial game! Its like people bitching about F2P w/ microtransactions, doesn't matter what they say, cash pays.

 

[imported_ats]

And BAM.... The 12 core and above chips are delayed... And the 18 one until next year.... Oh Intel, why?

http://wccftech.com/intels-skylake-x-core-i9-7980x-wont-be-available-until-next-year/

And seems that AMD got saved this time... Wondering if the Platinum series of Intel got delayed too...

that is literally such a shitty internet rumor article that they already had to update it more than once in a way that makes their title at odds with the actual article. Seriously, why even post this junk? wccftech doesn't know jack and if they do it is from some other source which is much preferred as a reference.

 

[tamz_msc]

$300? That's actually not bad.

Even if you throw out such things as AVX-512, Quad-Channel Memory Controller, Extra PCIE Lanes, the more quality motherboards and components and the general stability of the Intel HEDT platform, you're still left with a cpu to cpu comparison. Here, base is 3.6ghz vs 4.0ghz. That's 8x 400mhz + HT, translating into 3.2Ghz extra processing power. Turbo is 4ghz vs 4.3ghz, with another 200mhz for a 4.5ghz 2-core turbo. With AMD, you're stuck at 4.0Ghz overclock, while the Intel potentially offers more - certainly, 4.5Ghz should be minimum as it's only 200mhz above turbo frequency. Taking Intel's superior ipc plus all the goodies mentioned above into consideration, the 7820X is more appealing to me.

If you go Ryzen 1700 vs i9 7820X, the frequency gap increases dramatically: 8x 800mhz (7.4ghz + HT more processing power) at base, 8x 700mhz at turbo clocks, and 4.5ghz 2 -core turbo the 7820X. Overclocking is 3.7 - 3.8Ghz vs 4.3 - 4.5Ghz. Add ipc and extra Intel HEDT features and again, things don't look as bad as some would have you think. And this is even without the Intel tax

Finally, those $120, feature-limited boards people bring into these comparisons actually doesn't help but reinforce AMD's "cheapo" image in many minds. It is also quite dishonest. HEDT is just that, HEDT, and Intel's HEDT boards are built like tanks, to endure the demands of multicore processors, quad-core and extra IO and PCIE lanes. Proper comparisons would be the X370 and Taichi boards. If I were to build an AMD system, I wouldn't be considering any feature-limited boards. So for me, the point is really moot - i9 7820X all the way! It's price/performance ratio is not as bad as it seems. It's in fact, great value for the performance and features you get when compared to the competition, and that includes the Ryzen 1700.

Actually if you paid attention to the ITX part, you'd understand why the price gap is larger than that.

There are four confirmed ITX AM4 boards, vs only one for X299, similar to X99. All the AM4 boards will be sub-150$, while the AsRock X299 will very likely be 300$.

X99 in the past didn't result in any better boards in terms of build-quality, there are lots of reports of Asus X99 boards failing left and right taking CPUs out along with them.

Overclocking is less appealing in ITX builds, and even then the difference in clocks doesn't translate to difference in processing power the way you described. We don't even know what IPC improvements are there in SKL-X vs BD-E, let alone SKL-S, and we know that Ryzen is BD-E level in terms of IPC.

There's hardly any consumer application that uses AVX2 to its full potential, let alone AVX512, and the dual vs quad channel debate is age-old and we all know how big of an issue it really is. ITX also limits the ways you can use all those extra PCI-E lanes.

The difference is more likely to be 400$, and 500$ if you consider the 1700X at its reduced price-point. So that's enough money for a GTX 1080 if you go with the AMD route.

 

[2blzd]

No the 12C was always going to come later. August.

No it wasn't. Look at any slides (as I posted in my previous post) from 2015 to mid to late 2016 and you will see 10c. The 10C is an LCC die. Moving to 12c would require them to move to their HCC Xeon dies. That was never the plan until maybe 4-8 weeks ago, 10c from the start.

S

They did a mess with the segmentation only to ensure SKL-X is no threat to Workstation and server chips BEFORE scaling up in cores.... all that BS was no needed if SKL-X was 10C max.

Your statements kinda contradict each other..I don't know what you're trying to say?

The market segmentation was always planned. Kaby-X was always going to be 16 lane 4 core part and Sky-X was always going to be UP to 44 lanes and UP to 10cores.

The higher end core count chips have nothing to do with the weird market segmentation they created with x299. It's all because of Kaby-X and the KBY-PCH that created this mess.