Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[AtenRa]

Based on the leaked Roadmaps Coffe Lake-S is scheduled for Q2 2018.

I was specifically talking about Desktop.

 

[CakeMonster]

Intel has now been on 14nm for a long time, and Kaby Lake seems to have fewer differences compared to Skylake than most recent yearly updates. So my question is, how much is Intel really getting out of the 2nd tock in the new tick-tock-tock model? Isn't the next tick node shrink and design quite far advanced in planning and design anyway? Can they transfer whatever they did with the 2nd tock to the next tick?

 

[jpiniero]

Intel has now been on 14nm for a long time, and Kaby Lake seems to have fewer differences compared to Skylake than most recent yearly updates. So my question is, how much is Intel really getting out of the 2nd tock in the new tick-tock-tock model? Isn't the next tick node shrink and design quite far advanced in planning and design anyway? Can they transfer whatever they did with the 2nd tock to the next tick?

It's possible that the IGP changes that Kaby Lake has were simply backported from Cannonlake.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Intel has now been on 14nm for a long time, and Kaby Lake seems to have fewer differences compared to Skylake than most recent yearly updates. So my question is, how much is Intel really getting out of the 2nd tock in the new tick-tock-tock model? Isn't the next tick node shrink and design quite far advanced in planning and design anyway? Can they transfer whatever they did with the 2nd tock to the next tick?

The changes in the second tock (aka "optimization") are not really related to the microarchitecture, rather in the process and circuit implementation. The next "tick" will be on an entirely new process (10nm), have an updated CPU/GPU (Cannon Lake), and potentially other changes.

Not really much to bring over to a future tick or legit tock.

 

[witeken]

Interesting, I hadn't realized KBL-R stood for Kaby Lake *Refresh*.

Kaby Lake Refresh. A refresh of a refresh.

Wonder why they don't call it Coffee Lake. @Arachnotronic

 

[Arachnotronic]

Wonder why they don't call it Coffee Lake. @Arachnotronic

If I had to take a wild guess...I'd say Kaby Lake-R will use 14nm+ and essentially just be a larger version of KBL-U. Coffee Lake chips could use an improved 14nm process, maybe called 14nm++, to justify the new code-name.

 

[jpiniero]

If you look though, the 4+2 Coffee Lake-S is ever so slightly bigger than the 4+2 U die. So there may be a minor difference in the CPU core itself or some other reason.

 

[Arachnotronic]

If you look though, the 4+2 Coffee Lake-S is ever so slightly bigger than the 4+2 U die. So there may be a minor difference in the CPU core itself or some other reason.

Yeah I noticed that. The BL leaks say iGPU is the same as KBL (both 3D GFX and media), but I can't imagine that the CPU cores are different. There is no 4+2 CFL for mobile, just 4+3e, suggesting that U KBL-R is essentially the 4+2 CFL.

Hmm....

 

[lukart]

Looks like someone hit the 7Ghz mark using the I7 7700K with a Z170 OC Formula...
https://www.techpowerup.com/229007/intel-core-i7-7700k-cracks-7-ghz-bench-stable-overclock

Might not be much more performance compared to the old gen, but looks like could have some oc potential unlocked..

 

[witeken]

What will be the difference between Kaby Lake-X and Kaby Lake-S (i7 7700K)? @Arachnotronic

Will Kaby Lake-X have the IGP removed so the die will be smaller so it will be cheaper to mfg so it will be easier to compete vs. Zen? But 4-cores won't compete against 8-core. So that seems odd. I don't understand KBL-X.

Edit: Okay, I think I get it. KBL-X will support Optane.

 

[mikk]

I was specifically talking about Desktop.

I was talking about that as well.

It's possible that the IGP changes that Kaby Lake has were simply backported from Cannonlake.

It isn't because Cannonlake is Gen10. Even the media engine doesn't seem to be a Cannonlake version because Intel calls it Gen 9.5.

 

[jpiniero]

It isn't because Cannonlake is Gen10. Even the media engine doesn't seem to be a Cannonlake version because Intel calls it Gen 9.5.

I'm not so sure. I think Intel would want to keep at least the media engine and GPU at parity between Coffee Lake and Cannonlake.

 

[AtenRa]

I was talking about that as well.

The only Desktop Coffelake roadmap i have seen talks about BTS 2018 which is Q3. Mobile Coffeelake roadmap is for Q2 2018.

 

[witeken]

What will be the difference between Kaby Lake-X and Kaby Lake-S (i7 7700K)? @Arachnotronic

Will Kaby Lake-X have the IGP removed so the die will be smaller so it will be cheaper to mfg so it will be easier to compete vs. Zen? But 4-cores won't compete against 8-core. So that seems odd. I don't understand KBL-X.

Edit: Okay, I think I get it. KBL-X will support Optane.

And to confuse things even more, there is Coffee Lake-X.

So that will be 3 processor families in the series, launching within 1 year from each other, that will be build on the same architecture (SKL) and the same process node (14nm+), but with 3 different names.

And one would think Coffee Lake > Kaby Lake > Skylake. But actually it's SKL (10c) > CFL (6c) > KBL (4c).

That is definitely not confusing it all.

Edit: Coffee Lake-X hexacore is the successor of Kaby Lake-X quadcore in '18. That's the new low-end HEDT platform. They will, surprisingly, feature GT2 graphics. Espcially given there will also be CFL-S with 6+2.

For the real EX chips, I suppose Cannonlake-X will be the successor of Skylake-X (decacore).

 

[FlanK3r]

Allan got 7 GHz Pi benchmark, of course, the CPU was delided.

 

[mikk]

I'm not so sure. I think Intel would want to keep at least the media engine and GPU at parity between Coffee Lake and Cannonlake.

Because? Do you think it is an issue if Cannonlake gets some improvements to the media engine?

 

[mikk]

The only Desktop Coffelake roadmap i have seen talks about BTS 2018 which is Q3. Mobile Coffeelake roadmap is for Q2 2018.

BTS is another hint for an Q2 RTS launch since Kabylake H 4+2 18W with the same BTS label on a Roadmap was scheduled for RTS Q2 2017, although this product has ben cancelled. KBL U 4+2 is scheduled for RTS Q3 and wasn't labeled with BTS, HR instead.

And since the desktop version of H SKUs are typically ready a month or so before mobile, it is consistent with the mobile Roadmap.

 

[jpiniero]

Because? Do you think it is an issue if Cannonlake gets some improvements to the media engine?

It'd be weird marketing wise since I'm sure they are all going to be called 8th gen processors. It's already weird enough that they are going to have 2+2 U/Y Cannonlake and a 4+2 U Kaby Lake. Especially if the CNL can clock much higher at 2C and 1C.

 

[Sweepr]

Regarding the 7 GHz i7-7700K (so many 7s), here's the link:

Intel Core i7 7700K breaks six world records

PiFast
9sec 20ms

SuperPi - 32M
4min 20sec 250ms

wPrime - 32m
2sec 953ms

wPrime - 1024m
1min 33sec 171ms

Aquamark
643,316 marks

3DMark05
86,798 marks

http://oclab.ru/news/intel-core-i7-7700k-otmetilsya-shestyu-mirovymi-rekordami

 

[AtenRa]

BTS is another hint for an Q2 RTS launch since Kabylake H 4+2 18W with the same BTS label on a Roadmap was scheduled for RTS Q2 2017, although this product has ben cancelled. KBL U 4+2 is scheduled for RTS Q3 and wasn't labeled with BTS, HR instead.

And since the desktop version of H SKUs are typically ready a month or so before mobile, it is consistent with the mobile Roadmap.

RTS is not release and you also havent provided any different Desktop Coffeelake-s roadmap.

We can clearly see from the roadmap bellow that Desktop KabyLake-S (KBL-H) RTS is Q4 2016 but actual Official release of the product is Q1 2017, so Coffeelake RTS may be Q2 2018 but actual release is BTS or Q3 2018.

 

[witeken]

RTS is not release and you also havent provided any different Desktop Coffeelake-s roadmap.

We can clearly see from the roadmap bellow that Desktop KabyLake-S (KBL-H) RTS is Q4 2016 but actual Official release of the product is Q1 2017, so Coffeelake RTS may be Q2 2018 but actual release is BTS or Q3 2018.

Kaby Lake-S RTS was December, and that's exactly when they started selling. Some members on this forum already have their KBL-S.

RTS not for nothing means ready to sell.

 

[mikk]

RTS is not release and you also havent provided any different Desktop Coffeelake-s roadmap.

RTS is launch/sales start in Intel terms. You haven't provided us with a desktop Roadmap that says Q3 RTS either. I explained to you why it is a hint for Q2 regarding the BTS label. And you can be sure that CFL-H for desktop won't come later than the mobile version, because it is the same version. Mobile should be later in fact because Intel sells the desktop version directly to end consumers whereas the mobile version is shipping to OEMs. The same happens with Kabylake actually.

 

[mikk]

It'd be weird marketing wise since I'm sure they are all going to be called 8th gen processors. It's already weird enough that they are going to have 2+2 U/Y Cannonlake and a 4+2 U Kaby Lake. Especially if the CNL can clock much higher at 2C and 1C.

You argument doesn't make sense because the GPU is from a different Gen. Also the manufacturing process is different. CPU should be different too. A different media engine is the least of the problem when the GPU core itself is different.

 

[AtenRa]

Kaby Lake-S RTS was December, and that's exactly when they started selling. Some members on this forum already have their KBL-S.

RTS not for nothing means ready to sell.

RTS is launch/sales start in Intel terms. You haven't provided us with a desktop Roadmap that says Q3 RTS either. I explained to you why it is a hint for Q2 regarding the BTS label. And you can be sure that CFL-H for desktop won't come later than the mobile version, because it is the same version. Mobile should be later in fact because Intel sells the desktop version directly to end consumers whereas the mobile version is shipping to OEMs. The same happens with Kabylake actually.

Again, RTS is not official launch,

KBL Desktop havent been Officially released yet, its a Q1 official launch. Those KBL Desktop CPUs that are found on the market are not from official channels. You cannot buy a KBL Desktop from any big retail/e-tail store (there are no KBL Desktop CPUs sold in Newegg/Amazon etc).

 

[jpiniero]

Yeah the vendors who are selling the 7700K are breaking the street date.