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Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Thats extremely unlikely, intel would never do that unless amd becomes extremely competitive with zen...they just launched a pentium with 2c4t...not a single chance on earth they will make it a 4c by 2018
There are no dual core parte in coffe lake
 
Mar 10, 2006
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No, but I think those mobile chips list for something like 3 or 400 dollars. Even if the OEMs pay half that, I think Intel could afford to put edram on the chip.
Can Intel do this without significantly hurting its gross profit margins or unnecessarily raising costs for OEM partners?

Hell, add e-dram and increase prices 20.00 across the board.Would anybody even really notice?
YES. There is just not a ton of room in the bill of materials for a $400-$700 laptop. If OEMs need to pay $20 more for eDRAM, they will either have to increase their laptop prices across the board (bad idea in a weak notebook PC market) or they will have to sacrifice other things in the system that could hurt user experience (touch pad quality, keyboard quality, display quality, etc.) just to hit the right cost points.

I would gladly pay even 50.00 on an 800.00 laptop for the extra performance of edram.
Right, you would, so that's the whole point of segmentation. Sell higher end stuff to people willing to pay more, sell cheaper-to-build stuff to people unwilling to pay more for graphics/eDRAM. Segmentation is really a win-win as it allows companies to deliver good products at a range of cost points while still maintaining healthy profit margins.

I think the real problem is that the performance and performance per watt, despite all the effort, is still not competitive with something like a 950m, and it will be even worse the the 1050/1050Ti make their way into laptops.
That is exactly why Iris Pro is an unattractive option, especially for laptops that can handle dGPUs. Intel simply has to improve its graphics architectures and it needs to do so at a faster pace than NVIDIA does...something that'll be super hard to do given that NVIDIA lives and breathes GPUs while Intel just sees it as a way to make more money from its CPU products.
 

imported_ats

Senior member
Mar 21, 2008
422
63
86
YES. There is just not a ton of room in the bill of materials for a $400-$700 laptop. If OEMs need to pay $20 more for eDRAM, they will either have to increase their laptop prices across the board (bad idea in a weak notebook PC market) or they will have to sacrifice other things in the system that could hurt user experience (touch pad quality, keyboard quality, display quality, etc.) just to hit the right cost points.
only way it will happen is if the capacity of the eDRAM is enough for most of the market such that it allows the OEMs to have simpler/smaller designs. I could see a 8GB design point being viable for say an additional $30-40.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,125
131
I have an exciting finding to share with you guys.

Kaby Lake-S Pentium CPUs will support HT (2C/4T)

Pentium G4560, the entry level Pentium CPU for the Kaby Lake-S family (Pentium G4400's successor) will support HT - based on a leaked Geekbench result. This means the entire Pentium lineup gets 2C/4T treatment from now on! Clocked at 3.5 GHz it should almost match Core i3-6100 (3.7 GHz) performance at much lower prices, as low as $60-70 if we look at current Pentium G4400 prices.

Geekbench said:
Intel Pentium G4560 @ 3.50 GHz
1 processor, 2 cores, 4 threads
https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/1112633
 
Last edited:
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
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I have an exciting finding to share with you guys.

Kaby Lake-S Pentium CPUs will support HT (2C/4T)

Pentium G4560, the entry level Pentium CPU for the Kaby Lake-S family (Pentium G4400's successor) will support HT - based on a leaked Geekbench result. This means the entire Pentium lineup gets 2C/4T treatment from now on! Clocked at 3.5 GHz it should almost match Core i3-6100 (3.7 GHz) performance at much lower prices, as low as $60-70 if we look at current Pentium G4400 prices.



https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/1112633
And that's how you make the same fundamental architecture on a new process exciting :)
 

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,876
154
106
I have an exciting finding to share with you guys.

Kaby Lake-S Pentium CPUs will support HT (2C/4T)

Pentium G4560, the entry level Pentium CPU for the Kaby Lake-S family (Pentium G4400's successor) will support HT - based on a leaked Geekbench result. This means the entire Pentium lineup gets 2C/4T treatment from now on! Clocked at 3.5 GHz it should almost match Core i3-6100 (3.7 GHz) performance at much lower prices, as low as $60-70 if we look at current Pentium G4400 prices.

https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/1112633
But will it support AVX2 ;)?
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
3,117
322
126
Pentium G4560, the entry level Pentium CPU for the Kaby Lake-S family (Pentium G4400's successor) will support HT - based on a leaked Geekbench result. This means the entire Pentium lineup gets 2C/4T treatment from now on!
Why do you think it's the replacement for the g4400
and not the G4520/G4500?
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
3,117
322
126
All three are skylake,that's why I don't get why it should replace the lowest and not the highest part.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,125
131
Why do you think it's the replacement for the g4400
and not the G4520/G4500?
Pentium G4400 -> Pentium G4560
Pentium G4500 -> Pentium G4600
Pentium G4520 -> Pentium G4620

The addition of HT to the Pentium line will enable much more capable budget PCs. It makes sense as well, given that this might be Intel's last dual-core SKU for desktops - Coffee Lake-S comes in quad-core and hexa-core flavors.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
39
91
So Netflix 4K on Windows 10 requires Kaby Lake and a 4K display. I wonder if the display requirement can be circumvented. Mayve via downscaling.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,787
5,302
126
So Netflix 4K on Windows 10 requires Kaby Lake and a 4K display. I wonder if the display requirement can be circumvented. Mayve via downscaling.
When you say, "requires" KBL, do you mean that Netflix 4K will only work on a PC using KBL iGPU? What about a PC using an NV Pascal or Maxwell v2 GPU? (HDMI 2.0, HDR, and H265 decoding at 4K@60)

I realize that the DRM may require Win10 and a CPU that supports the SGX extensions, but that would include later SKL steppings, as well as KBL.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
39
91
When you say, "requires" KBL, do you mean that Netflix 4K will only work on a PC using KBL iGPU? What about a PC using an NV Pascal or Maxwell v2 GPU? (HDMI 2.0, HDR, and H265 decoding at 4K@60)

I realize that the DRM may require Win10 and a CPU that supports the SGX extensions, but that would include later SKL steppings, as well as KBL.
This is the info I have:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/11/21/13703152/netflix-4k-pc-windows-support?client=safari


So yeah but for now it seems Kaby Lake is it. In other words new hardware needed no matter what.
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
3,117
322
126
Pentium G4400 -> Pentium G4560
Pentium G4500 -> Pentium G4600
Pentium G4520 -> Pentium G4620

The addition of HT to the Pentium line will enable much more capable budget PCs. It makes sense as well, given that this might be Intel's last dual-core SKU for desktops - Coffee Lake-S comes in quad-core and hexa-core flavors.
This will be awesome,all we need now is kaby-oc that doesn't break HT :)
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
2,815
653
136
AVX would have been better IMHO (yeah, I've developed an obsession :D), but having HT more widely available is a nice move anyway.
AVX is not much use, HT is much better. There is a 20-25% boost for many applications, it helps dualcore CPUs more than Quadcore CPUs. Basically in all games nowadays. AVX use cases are very limited for consumer. X264 and even more x265 benefits from it but not with 20-25%.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
2,815
653
136
Looks like certain websites are pretending that the Xeon E5-2699 v5 with 32C/64T on sale was their finding. Unfortunately they're two days late.
It’s really interesting that Intel is preparing such a chip when their slides showed no plans for a 32 core chip on the Xeon E5 V5 line. The maximum core count was hinted at 28 cores but this move could be to directly tackle the AMD Naples core which would also house 32 Zen cores and 64 threads.
There is a perfect explanation from Computerbase about the confusion of 28 and 32 cores: https://www.computerbase.de/2016-11/skylake-ep-ex-32-kerne-cpu-xeon/

The 28 cores variant listed in earlier Roadmaps always was a native 32 core SKU, because of the 14nm yield troubles some time ago Intel played it safe and listed the 32 version with 28 cores, means 4 cores were disabled for a better yield. That was the plan at that time. With the yield improvements over time and 14nm+ they don't have to disable any cores, they can go with the native core count from now on.
 
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lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
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There is a perfect explanation from Computerbase about the confusion of 28 and 32 cores: https://www.computerbase.de/2016-11/skylake-ep-ex-32-kerne-cpu-xeon/

The 28 cores variant listed in earlier Roadmaps always was a native 32 core SKU, because of the 14nm yield troubles some time ago Intel played it safe and listed the 32 version with 28 cores, means 4 cores were disabled for a better yield. That was the plan at that time. With the yield improvements over time and 14nm+ they don't have to disable any cores, they can go with the native core count from now on.
There is only 1 thing that does not work out: there is still no evidence to it being a 32 core part from what i see. And the initial leaks pointed at 28C part as well (Zauba shipments i am looking at right now), not just hints. Plus, there is something inherently wrong with jumping 8 cores up in a single gen, if you ask me.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
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There is only 1 thing that does not work out: there is still no evidence to it being a 32 core part from what i see. And the initial leaks pointed at 28C part as well (Zauba shipments i am looking at right now), not just hints. Plus, there is something inherently wrong with jumping 8 cores up in a single gen, if you ask me.
Zauba parts only up to 165W. Recent leaks suggest there will be 205W parts.

28 was always a weird number, I think 32 cores makes more sense.
 

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