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Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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Aug 11, 2008
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I think that what he's trying to point out, is that if you equalize clocks between SKL and KBL, there's virtually no IPC increase. Which shouldn't be too surprising.
Yes, for the K series where you overclock, increasing clockspeed does not mean much if the overclocking frequency stays the same. But for mobile, where you cant overclock, a clockspeed increase is just as good as an ipc increase, assuming it can maintain the higher cloclspeed.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
8,571
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I don't know much about Coffee Lake, not sure if it's just the same SKL cores rehashed again or if it's updated cores in 14nm+.
Good point, they might just be updating the media decoder to support Dolby HDR or something.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
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Kaby Lake goes official (moving the post to this page). I'm doing some performance comparisons with the data provided by Intel, so stay tuned!

Intel Kaby Lake: 14nm+, Higher Clocks, New Media Engine

Year-over-Year Improvements



Performance per Watt



Kaby Lake-Y: ~25% better than Skylake-Y

14nm+

Intel notes that it has the industry's highest transistor density, and since 14nm+ doesn't involve a lithography shrink, the density metric likely remains unchanged. Instead, Intel is optimizing its transistors by improving their fin profile with taller fins and a wider gate pitch. It's also improving the transistor channel strain.

Of course, Intel does not provide exact measurements for the new fin profile and gate pitch for comparison, but a glance at an IDF 2014 presentation illustrates the company's previous advances and the scale of the problem. Intel hasn't officially named the new process as its next-gen tri-gate, but it is safe to assume that it is.
Finally, there's some question over what it takes at a fab level to produce 14nm+. Though certainly not on the scale of making the jump to 14nm to begin with, Intel has been tight-lipped on whether any retooling is required. At a minimum, as this is a new process (in terms of design specificaitons), I think it's reasonable to expect that some minor retooling is required to move a line over to 14nm+. In which case the question is raised over which Intel fabs can currently produce chips on the new process. One of the D1 fabs in Oregon is virtually guaranteed; whether Arizona or Ireland is also among these is not.
New Media Engine






Intel claims the addition of HEVC 10-bit hardware acceleration increases battery life during 4K streaming by 75% (up to 9.5 hours). It also indicates that users can view 360-degree 4K video for up to seven hours on a single battery charge.
Kaby’s biggest advertised feature is improved support for 4K. All Kaby Lake integrated GPUs will support hardware-accelerated decoding and encoding of 10-bit HEVC/H.265 video streams and decoding of 8-bit VP9 streams. If you don’t already know, supporting hardware acceleration for certain codecs means that the GPU (usually via a dedicated media block) handles all the processing instead of the CPU. Not only does this use a fraction of the power that a CPU uses to accomplish the same task, but it frees the CPU cores up to do other things.
Speed Shift v2

With Skylake, the hardware control around Speed Shift has improved. Intel isn’t technically giving this a new name, but it is an iterative updated which I prefer to call ‘v2’, if only because the adjustment from v1 to v2 is big enough to note. There is no change in the OS driver, so the same Speed Shift driver works for both v1 and v2, but the performance means that a CPU can now reach peak frequency in 10-15 milliseconds rather than 30.

Kaby Lake Dual-Core + GT2 Die



Launching Today: Kaby Lake-Y / Kaby Lake-U





Benchmarks!





www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-7th-gen-core-kaby-lake-preview,4728.html
www.anandtech.com/show/10610/intel-announces-7th-gen-kaby-lake-14nm-plus-six-notebook-skus-desktop-coming-in-january
 

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,874
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The performance increase comes from an enhanced 14nm process that allows for higher clocks at a given level of power consumption. Don't downplay this, this is a good achievement from Intel. The process and circuit implementation folks really did a good job here.

We'll see the micro-architects strut their stuff in Cannonlake.
What I wonder with this talk about the larger gate pitch, is:

1) Have they done this to improve yields ("downgraded" their 14nm node after it proved to be a too big leap )? (Seem a bit unlikely because the yieldlearning of this enhanced process probably also took time and as we see it isn't a downgrade, just some changes to improve performance with less focus on density, and hopefully we'll see how much this has changed density, but they're very vague about those numbers since SKL...)

2) When they disclose their 10nm node and the improvement compared to 14nm, will they compare it to the supposedly less dense 14nm+ to make 10nm look better? (Again I doubt this is the case since they've been talking about 10nm before 14+, just pointing it out.)

Edit: BTW, the new forum layout is pretty slick, altough it has its plusses and minusses.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,124
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NotebookCheck already has their Kaby Lake review up. The performance improvement on mobile is better than the last Tock(s) (new architecture) from Intel. Compared to i7-6500U, i7-7500U is:

Kaby Lake (Core i7-7500U) tested: Skylake on steroids

- CPU
14-16% faster @ Cinebench 11.5
16% faster @ 3DMark 06 CPU
14-24% faster @ X264
16-17% faster @ TrueCrypt
28% faster @ WinRAR

After 5 minutes of load, i7-7500U can sustain similar clocks to an i7-6600U at 25W mode.

- iGPU / Gaming
31% faster @ 3DMark 11 GPU
39% faster @ 3DMark Fire Strike Graphics
33% faster @ Just Cause 3 1366x768 Medium
39% faster @ Bioshock Infinite 1366x768 High
42% faster @ Battlefield 4 1366x768 High
51% faster @ Star Wars Battlefront 1366x768 Medium

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Kaby-Lake-Core-i7-7500U-im-Test-Skylake-auf-Steroiden.172422.0.html

Now one detail from Intel's slides caught my attention. Kaby Lake-U's HD Graphics 620 scores 339 pts @ 3DMark Time Spy Graphics (DX12). In comparison, a Geforce GTX 950M scores 281 pts according to NotebookCheck.
 
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witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,874
149
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So it compares even to a Tick?

We'll probably get more information about 14+ and 10nm at Investor Meeting.. I hope. I always liked Bill Holt's presentation. Wait, didn't he retire? So someone else will do them then, hopefully.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
2,631
547
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That's the biggest deal about Kabylake:
http://www.notebookcheck.com/fileadmin/Notebooks/News/Unsortiert/2016_q3/Intel_Kaby_Lake/7th_Generation_Intel_Core_Processors_12.jpg
http://www.notebookcheck.com/fileadmin/Notebooks/News/Unsortiert/2016_q3/Intel_Kaby_Lake/7th_Generation_Intel_Core_Processors_13.jpg

Notebookcheck said:
Unseren anspruchsvollen 4K-Trailer (HEVC Main10, 50 MBit/s, 60 fps) spielt der i7-7500U bei einer durchschnittlichen Leistungsaufnahme (CPU Package Power) von lediglich 3,2 Watt flüssig ab, wohingegen das Video auf dem i7-6600U trotz 16,5 Watt Chipverbrauch sichtbar vor sich hin ruckelt.
10 bit HEVC 50 Mbit/s 60 fps video playback: 3,2 watts vs 16,5 watts .....and it stutters on Skylake


Even though I'm a bit surprised that the graphics runs easily faster in games, looks like Turbo works better and the new graphics driver helps here and there.
 

nvgpu

Senior member
Sep 12, 2014
629
201
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http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/MSI/CX72-7QL/dxva_kaby.png

DXVA Checker confirms HEVC Main10 8K hardware decoding & VP9 10bit Profile2 8K hardware decoding support on Kaby Lake.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Kaby-Lake-Core-i7-7500U-Review-Skylake-on-Steroids.172692.0.html

The Skylake hardware was already able to decode H-265/HEVC videos at a low power consumption, but it did not support the Main10 standard for contents with a 10-bit color depth. Kaby Lake changes that: Our demanding 4K trailer (HEVC Main10, 50 Mbps, 60 fps) is handled smoothly by the i7-7500U at an average power consumption of just 3.2 Watts (CPU Package Power), while the video stuttered noticeably on the i7-6600U despite a consumption of 16.5 Watts.
 
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
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Another look at NotebookCheck results for Kaby Lake-U and Bristol Ridge. They tested i7-7500U and A10-9600P (both 15W) in 12 games, Intel's iGPU was faster in 10. In CPU intensive titles like Diablo III and World of Warships Kaby Lake-U is twice as fast. Now to be fair AMD has a more powerful A10-9800P model with 512 SPs, but even if we add 30% to A10-9600P's results - i7-7500U would still come out on top in most games.

HD 620 (GT2) delivers around 70-80% the performance of Iris 540 (GT3e), this bodes very well for future Iris 640 (GT3e) parts launching January 2017.

We also get the first bit of info about how Gen 9 performs in DX12, even if it's a synthetic benchmark.

- i7-7500U / HD 620 (Intel data):
3DMark 11 GPU: 1616 pts
3DMark Time Sky Graphics (DX12): 339 pts

- Carrizo / R6 Graphics (NBC median scores):
3DMark 11 GPU: 1510 pts
3DMark Time Sky Graphics (DX12): 274 pts

HD 620 is only 7% faster @ 3DMark 11, but 24% faster @ 3DMark Time Spy.
 

Roland00Address

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,888
43
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Question do we think we will get a pentium based kabylake core m? Not at first but lets say 3 or 6 months down the road.

We did with skylake (pentium 4405Y, 1.5 ghz dual core with hyperthreading) but now that apollo lake is coming out is there less need?
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,440
369
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Intel have really started to focus on improving their iGPU's in the five years or so, and it's starting to pay off. I really hope AMD hit a home run with Zen, we need competition.
 

Lepton87

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2009
2,546
7
81
NotebookCheck already has their Kaby Lake review up. The performance improvement on mobile is better than the last Tock(s) (new architecture) from Intel. Compared to i7-6500U, i7-7500U is:

Kaby Lake (Core i7-7500U) tested: Skylake on steroids

- CPU
14-16% faster @ Cinebench 11.5
16% faster @ 3DMark 06 CPU
14-24% faster @ X264
16-17% faster @ TrueCrypt
28% faster @ WinRAR
(...)
WinRAR results suggests that Kaby Lake had faster ram is that true? What RAM was used in those tests? I'd also like to see Under Volting results to see how much better technically KL really is. It may be that KL works much closer to its potential to achieve those gains making the gains seem less impressive. Of course all of that is largely irrelevant for most buyers because how many people actually under-volt their CPUs? Nonetheless I have seen some very impressive gains in graphics performance from UV that were similar to those of KL. UV made the CPU draw less power and greatly increased the power available to the iGPU.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Intel have really started to focus on improving their iGPU's in the five years or so, and it's starting to pay off. I really hope AMD hit a home run with Zen, we need competition.
I don't get it. If Intel has done a really good job improving performance/features while keeping prices pretty much flat even as AMD has not been all that competitive, why exactly do we need competition? This is a legit question.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
7,453
949
126
The density decrease is really interesting! I wonder how big the die is...

Question do we think we will get a pentium based kabylake core m? Not at first but lets say 3 or 6 months down the road.
Probably, but it'd be hard to find a device with it. Be easier to find an Apollo Lake one.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
812
126
I'd also like to see Under Volting results to see how much better technically KL really is. It may be that KL works much closer to its potential to achieve those gains making the gains seem less impressive.
This makes no sense. How far something can be run out of spec says nothing about technology.

Would you say AMD is technically superior because they have to run their chips with so much voltage to ensure stability?
 
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beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
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Well 12% higher clock at same power means a 7700k could run at 4.7 Ghz turbo instead of 4.2. But given the leaked Xeon models, I fear intel will go the stupid route and just offer lower TDP. Or maybe the process has no effect on OC potential at all. So I'm skeptical to say the least. Is lack of USB 3.1 in chipset confirmed? that would be a real shame.

For mobile i say it looks pretty good. Future proof in terms of 4k and codecs and lower power usage or more performance.
 

Azuma Hazuki

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2012
1,532
866
131
I don't get it. If Intel has done a really good job improving performance/features while keeping prices pretty much flat even as AMD has not been all that competitive, why exactly do we need competition? This is a legit question.
...that clanging sound was my jaw hitting the floor. "Why do we need competition?" Seriously?! Have you just not been paying attention to, oh, the last 6,000 years of human history?
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,436
130
106
He's directly referencing the last ~5 years of localised history - where there hasn't been any meaningful competition - and suggesting that the continued improvements do make you wonder how crucial it is here. A fairly legitimate question.

It'd be awful if Intel got an absolute monopoly on producing CPUs of any kind of course, but there's utterly no prospect of them doing that now.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
128
106
NotebookCheck already has their Kaby Lake review up. The performance improvement on mobile is better than the last Tock(s) (new architecture) from Intel. Compared to i7-6500U, i7-7500U is:

Kaby Lake (Core i7-7500U) tested: Skylake on steroids

- CPU
14-16% faster @ Cinebench 11.5
16% faster @ 3DMark 06 CPU
14-24% faster @ X264
16-17% faster @ TrueCrypt
28% faster @ WinRAR

After 5 minutes of load, i7-7500U can sustain similar clocks to an i7-6600U at 25W mode.

- iGPU / Gaming
31% faster @ 3DMark 11 GPU
39% faster @ 3DMark Fire Strike Graphics
33% faster @ Just Cause 3 1366x768 Medium
39% faster @ Bioshock Infinite 1366x768 High
42% faster @ Battlefield 4 1366x768 High
51% faster @ Star Wars Battlefront 1366x768 Medium

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Kaby-Lake-Core-i7-7500U-im-Test-Skylake-auf-Steroiden.172422.0.html

Now one detail from Intel's slides caught my attention. Kaby Lake-U's HD Graphics 620 scores 339 pts @ 3DMark Time Spy Graphics (DX12). In comparison, a Geforce GTX 950M scores 281 pts according to NotebookCheck.
Kaby Lake is a massive one for mobile. Utter fantastic product in that regard with large performance benefits. :)
 
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HiroThreading

Member
Apr 25, 2016
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Kaby Lake is looking pretty impressive, especially in mobile devices.

If Apple does indeed announce new MacBook Pros on the 7th of September, they must be feeling pretty pissed off at the fact that Intel only had Skylake-U chips on offer up to the launch of the new MBPs.

Oh well, there's an aggressive refresh possibility early next year, and these chips look absolutely fantastic for the MacBook (with hopefully Thunderbolt 3).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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