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Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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I'm just saying there are likely a lot of consumers that rather would like to see the increased die area being spent on additional cores instead of beefing up the iGPU further.

If Intel tells us to forget about it, I guess we'll have to put out hopes on AMD's Zen.
You assume that your wishes belongs to a group that can pay for such a CPU themselves. AMDs 6 and 8 cores are just a couple of % of their product mix at best.

Get an LGA2011 chip instead.
 
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Lots of Skylake chips launching this week:







www.gdm.or.jp/voices/2015/0830/129407

Also new H170 and B150 motherboards.

The new Lenovo Yoga 900-13 is looking nice:

Lenovo Yoga 900-13 leak: Ultrabook with "Skylake" & USB Type-C



Under the hood, but although thrifty quite feeble core M is replaced with the new models through the Intel Core SoCs the sixth generation on the basis of "Skylake" architecture. In the present model we get, for example, the Intel Core i7-6500U used, a powerful dual-core SoC, who works with a base clock of 2.5 GHz and speeds up to 3.1 GHz via Turbo Boost. Other models will come up with the slightly slower Core i5-6200U.

Further facilities include eight gigabytes of memory and in the case of the model described here, a 256 GB SSD. Is sparked by Gigabit-Fi and Bluetooth 4.0. Lenovo also installed for the first time at a yoga device also has a USB Type-C port that also supports the new, faster USB 3.1 standard and comes up with a reversible port. In addition, one USB 2.0 and one USB 3.0 port of full-size and the option to electricity when needed also to be used as a USB port. Of course there is also an SD card reader.
http://winfuture.de/news,88689.html
 
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CakeMonster

Senior member
Nov 22, 2012
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I'd fork out for the HEDT platform if it was up to date architecture wise. And I doubt I'm the only one. Right now I just have to compromise with regards to IPC, clock speed, and my own needs, which means the 6700K, which means less money for Intel.

Before anyone starts lecturing me, yes, I'm sure they also made this calculation and figured that it was worth it or that they couldn't supply both at once or something. But part of the reason HEDT isn't selling more is because its older.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Why would a hexcore fix anything? And remember clocks and power consumption?
Maybe we should go back to single cores then, since more cores dont fix anything. Have you read the thread about 5820k vs 6770k? Opinion has definitely shifted to 6 real cores, with more highly threaded games already coming out and DX12 coming soon, two more cores would offer a significant increase *on top of* the ipc increase we already see. And it would be on the most modern platform as well. Now if Skylake had given a 25% increase instead of the 10% or so we are seeing, I might have felt differently, but it is clear that Intel has pretty much wrung all they can out of the Core architecture, and the only way they can get more than 10% or so improvement is to go to more cores. So far they have gotten by with depending on clockspeed and high ipc, but I think they are playing a very dangerous game with this strategy. Or maybe they just want to sell server rejects so badly they are willing to cede the top end consumer market to Zen, if it is anywhere close to what AMD is touting.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Maybe we should go back to single cores then, since more cores dont fix anything. Have you read the thread about 5820k vs 6770k? Opinion has definitely shifted to 6 real cores, with more highly threaded games already coming out and DX12 coming soon, two more cores would offer a significant increase *on top of* the ipc increase we already see. And it would be on the most modern platform as well. Now if Skylake had given a 25% increase instead of the 10% or so we are seeing, I might have felt differently, but it is clear that Intel has pretty much wrung all they can out of the Core architecture, and the only way they can get more than 10% or so improvement is to go to more cores. So far they have gotten by with depending on clockspeed and high ipc, but I think they are playing a very dangerous game with this strategy. Or maybe they just want to sell server rejects so badly they are willing to cede the top end consumer market to Zen, if it is anywhere close to what AMD is touting.
Dont confuse an enthusiast forum with the broad market. Unless average joe wants a hexcore over a quad with no penalty its not going to happen. You are not part of the 99% crowd.

And for the 5820K, remember you compare apples and oranges. 15MB cache and quadchannel. Remember why Broadwell-C performs so insanely good compared to its speed? Or What Skylake needs to stretch its legs on the LGA1151

DX12 if anything will lower CPU usage, not increase it.

And if you are willing to pay for a 6700K. Why not a 5820K?
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Maybe we should go back to single cores then, since more cores dont fix anything. Have you read the thread about 5820k vs 6770k? Opinion has definitely shifted to 6 real cores, with more highly threaded games already coming out and DX12 coming soon, two more cores would offer a significant increase *on top of* the ipc increase we already see. And it would be on the most modern platform as well. Now if Skylake had given a 25% increase instead of the 10% or so we are seeing, I might have felt differently, but it is clear that Intel has pretty much wrung all they can out of the Core architecture, and the only way they can get more than 10% or so improvement is to go to more cores. So far they have gotten by with depending on clockspeed and high ipc, but I think they are playing a very dangerous game with this strategy. Or maybe they just want to sell server rejects so badly they are willing to cede the top end consumer market to Zen, if it is anywhere close to what AMD is touting.
I don't see what the issue is here.

The "mainstream" CPUs are essentially high-performance notebook parts re-purposed for desktop use. In the notebook market, four CPU cores is currently more than enough, and the additional transistor budget is rightly allocated to more iGPU power.

For people who need additional performance/cores, the HEDT platform should be more than enough. Six core processors are now priced quite reasonably on this platform, and if Intel needs to, it can introduce eight core parts at the ~$550 or so price-point that the 5930K currently occupies.

Also keep in mind that by the time 8 core Zen hits the market (assuming it's any good, which frankly I don't think we can take for granted), Broadwell-E will be most of the way through its life and Skylake-E will be right on deck.

I think with Skylake-E, Intel will introduce 10 core models at the $999 price point, 8 core at the $550, and maybe stick with 6 cores at the $400 price point. This should be plenty competitive with whatever AMD will throw its way, meaning that Intel will hardly be "ceding" the high end of the market to AMD.
 

alyarb

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2009
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Some anomalies in single-threaded benchmarks led to the speculation and denial of inverse hyperthreading on Skylake. What is the status of this, especially with regard to the i5 models, and why has no one written the architecture deep dive yet?

I like what I see but with the current availability and pricing the i7 does not make sense over the i5.


The notion of VISC is exciting. It means we can finally justify more cores, as long as there is a hypervisor sitting outside that will virtualize all these resources in hardware. Your application is presented with a CPU of the right width, and you have aggregated a potentially massive front-end.
 
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Mar 10, 2006
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Some anomalies in single-threaded benchmarks led to the speculation and denial of inverse hyperthreading on Skylake. What is the status of this, especially with regard to the i5 models, and why has no one written the architecture deep dive yet?

I like what I see but with the current availability and pricing the i7 does not make sense over the i5.
There is no inverse hyperthreading on Skylake.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Some anomalies in single-threaded benchmarks led to the speculation and denial of inverse hyperthreading on Skylake. What is the status of this, especially with regard to the i5 models, and why has no one written the architecture deep dive yet?

I like what I see but with the current availability and pricing the i7 does not make sense over the i5.
Bogus. It was simply benches that was cache speed limited so it cant scale with more cores.
 

Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
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DX12 if anything will lower CPU usage, not increase it.
Ok, great. So then Intel should stop selling quadcore mainstream CPUs, and only sell dualcores. The quadcores could be moved to the HEDT platform for those few 1% of the users that actually need it.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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I don't see what the issue is here.

The "mainstream" CPUs are essentially high-performance notebook parts re-purposed for desktop use. In the notebook market, four CPU cores is currently more than enough, and the additional transistor budget is rightly allocated to more iGPU power.

For people who need additional performance/cores, the HEDT platform should be more than enough. Six core processors are now priced quite reasonably on this platform, and if Intel needs to, it can introduce eight core parts at the ~$550 or so price-point that the 5930K currently occupies.

Also keep in mind that by the time 8 core Zen hits the market (assuming it's any good, which frankly I don't think we can take for granted), Broadwell-E will be most of the way through its life and Skylake-E will be right on deck.

I think with Skylake-E, Intel will introduce 10 core models at the $999 price point, 8 core at the $550, and maybe stick with 6 cores at the $400 price point. This should be plenty competitive with whatever AMD will throw its way, meaning that Intel will hardly be "ceding" the high end of the market to AMD.
The "issue" is that the HEDT platform is 2 product lines and one node behind the consumer lineup. The HEDT platform will become more competitive cost wise since DDR4 is becoming mainstream, but it is still far behind in node and architecture. And frankly, I dont expect much of Broadwell E. In fact, I think it may actually be slower than Haswell E (ipc gains more than negated by less overclocking headroom, and no benefit from the extra cache, because Haswell E has that already). So basically, we are stuck waiting for Skylake E, another year and a half or so, when we could have that performance now, instead of half the die devoted to a basically useless igp.

Even from a marketing standpoint, it seems like Kaby Lake would be a great opportunity to introduce a mainstream hex core instead of just igp improvements. "14nm process leadership lets Intel introduce its first mainstream hex core processor" instead of "Tick/Tock is dead, 10nm is delayed too, so here are some more igp improvements for you". Obviously they wont market it this way, but that is basically what is going to happen.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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The "issue" is that the HEDT platform is 2 product lines and one node behind the consumer lineup.
HEDT = repurposed workstation CPUs. Server/workstation tech from Intel takes longer to produce and validate, so yeah, it's gonna fall behind consumer-level tech. If people enjoyed spending more time glued to their desktop, we wouldn't have these problems. They don't, so there you have it.

I don't like it either. I just have to live with it.
 

tenks

Senior member
Apr 26, 2007
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And frankly, I dont expect much of Broadwell E. In fact, I think it may actually be slower than Haswell E (ipc gains more than negated by less overclocking headroom, and no benefit from the extra cache, because Haswell E has that already).
this is pure speculation. Fugger over at xtremesystems has been playing with broadwell-e ES chips for awhile now and has nothing but glowing things to say. I will quote it one more time because no one seemed to notice the first time I posted :

"On the horizon is Broadwell-E and I can assure you now these do not share the same characteristics as the Broadwell-C parts We will have a new toy to play with as MSR199 capabilities becomes known. "

Independent core OC'in
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Well, I hope you are right. I have no problem admitting that my statement is speculation, but it seems reasonable to me since basically every generation after SB has overclocked less well or about the same at best. Believe me, I would like nothing better than to see Intel make a huge performance jump on the desktop. It is just frustrating that the obvious answer of a mainstream hex core is staring us right in the face, but they refuse to do it.
 

throwa

Member
Aug 23, 2015
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It's official, skylake Core i3 and Pentium will be exactly the same as earlier models (2C/4T and 2C/2T respectively). With a TDP of 65w.

"Intel will also have a Core i3-6100 processor and Pentium G4400 processor at the launch event but their availability is unknown at the moment. The details of the Core i3-6100 include a dual core (multi-threaded) design with 4 MB of L3 cache and GT2 graphics chip clocked up to 1000 MHz. The Pentium G4400 will be a dual core design without multi-threading and feature 3 MB of L3 cache. The clock will be maintained at 3.3 GHz with turbo boost frequency and will come with the HD 510 (GT1) graphics chip with a maximum clock speed of 1050 MHz. Both chips will feature a TDP of 65W.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-s-mainstream-desktop-processor-lineup-launching-september-1/#ixzz3kKD48bYs"


Anyone else find this strange? How do they justify going "backwards" in terms of TDP by making dual-cores 65w chips? Maybe it has something to do with the upgraded graphics?
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Yea, that is really strange, since mainstream quads are 65 watts also. Could be the graphics, or could be incorrect information since it *is* WCCF tech.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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It's official, skylake Core i3 and Pentium will be exactly the same as earlier models (2C/4T and 2C/2T respectively). With a TDP of 65w.

"Intel will also have a Core i3-6100 processor and Pentium G4400 processor at the launch event but their availability is unknown at the moment. The details of the Core i3-6100 include a dual core (multi-threaded) design with 4 MB of L3 cache and GT2 graphics chip clocked up to 1000 MHz. The Pentium G4400 will be a dual core design without multi-threading and feature 3 MB of L3 cache. The clock will be maintained at 3.3 GHz with turbo boost frequency and will come with the HD 510 (GT1) graphics chip with a maximum clock speed of 1050 MHz. Both chips will feature a TDP of 65W.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-s-mainstream-desktop-processor-lineup-launching-september-1/#ixzz3kKD48bYs"


Anyone else find this strange? How do they justify going "backwards" in terms of TDP by making dual-cores 65w chips? Maybe it has something to do with the upgraded graphics?
Stop reading wccftech trash. Multiple errors its just sad.

Also family TDP series may be used. So a 36W chip could become 65W. All the non K quads are 35 and 65W.
 
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throwa

Member
Aug 23, 2015
59
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Yea, that is really strange, since mainstream quads are 65 watts also. Could be the graphics, or could be incorrect information since it *is* WCCF tech.
That's a good point, WCCF tech has been wrong and/or exaggerated claims so many times. Also, it's tech fanboy-central as evidenced by the frequent "flame wars" that erupt in the comments section under the articles.

But then again if it turns out to be true that's gonna be a real bummer, who wants a 65w dual-core? Unless there's something they're not telling us or it has drastically better performance than Haswell pentiums, it doesn't seem to make any sense.

When I first heard about the 65w rumor a few weeks ago I had assumed maybe they were gonna throw budget-users a bone and offer a Pentium w/ HT. But it seems it's just gonna be the "vanilla" 2-core Pentium, with a higher TDP. Strange indeed.
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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There are 2 Pentiums models, G4400 and G4500, we have no info on G4500, if there is a Pentium with HT its that one.

That if the I3-6100 does not end up to be GT1.5, im unsure of where people has been getting the "GT2" data.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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There are 2 Pentiums models, G4400 and G4500, we have no info on G4500, if there is a Pentium with HT its that one.

That if the I3-6100 does not end up to be GT1.5, im unsure of where people has been getting the "GT2" data.
According to PCGH:

G4500 3.5 Ghz 65W TDP HD 510 1.05 Ghz


According to PCGH no HT for any of those Pentium models. Some things are missing or wrong on wtftech. i3-6320 and i3-6300 are missing for example. Pentium G4520 as well.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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New ASUS H170 and B150 motherboards:

H170
- H170-PRO
- H170M-E D3
- H170M-PLUS
- H170 PRO GAMING
- H170-PLUS D3

B150
- B150M-C D3
- B150-PRO D3
- B150-PLUS D3
- B150M-A D3
- B150 PRO GAMING D3
- B150M-PLUS D3

http://benchlife.info/intel-will-launch-more-skylake-cpu-for-desktop-in-2th-sep-08312015


Lenovo Edge 15 2 (Skylake-U) coming soon

So there its initials, 2 Lenovo Edge 15 will be the successor to the Lenovo Edge 15 (not to be confused with the ThinkPad Edge 15) from which it inherits the basic concept. It 'a 15.6-inch notebook touch, and the display can be rotated on the piano keyboard, in a "tent", "stand" or "laptop", but not "tablet". In practice, in this case, the hinge does not allow a rotation of 360 degrees as in the Lenovo Yoga, but of only 300 degrees just as the line Lenovo Flex 3, slightly cheaper.

The second generation will be renewed in the hardware platform and, whereas the current Edge 15 is based on Intel Core (Broadwell-U), GeForce 840M and Windows 8.1, the next model could be equipped with the sixth generation of the Intel Core (Skylake -U), newer graphics cards such as the GeForce 940M and Windows 10 preinstalled. If the basic specifications remain the same, including 2 Lenovo Edge 15 it can be configured with high-resolution display, up to 16GB of RAM and hard drives up to 1TB or 256GB SSD.
http://notebookitalia.it/lenovo-edge-2-15-skylake-u-22261
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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Screw Skylake U trash tier! People will wait to Skylake i5 Quad Core.

It will be the 1st time that an i5 fully trashes an i7
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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ASUS seems ready to ship, I've seen those two models everywhere, even Walmart has it. Both support DDR3.
A couple of H170 boards from Asus have been selling since the Skylake launch here. So its something that has been collecting dust in warehouses.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Screw Skylake U trash tier! People will wait to Skylake i5 Quad Core.

It will be the 1st time that an i5 fully trashes an i7
Could you please try to improve the signal-to-noise ratio of your posts? You should know full well that U series chips are aimed at power constrained laptops and comparing those chips to 45 watt and up quad core chips just doesn't make sense.
 

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