Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[Idontcare]

Could someone please tell me what's up with 6700K stock in the U.S.? It's been nearly a month and literally no store here is selling them without a stupid combo requirement. Is this normal for new launches?

Its the new normal for Intel thanks to their 14nm process yields. Don't expect 10nm to change that either.

 

[Eug]

I posted this in the Apple forum, but it probably makes more sense to post it here.

I'm trying to decipher AnandTech's article, as a layperson:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9562/intels-skylake-gpu-analyzing-the-media-capabilities

If it says what I think it says about Skylake Y, I think I may have to pass on this generation, for a MacBook Retina. No full HEVC decode in hardware for Skylake Y?

It seems the big streaming and video content companies (including Netflix) are backing HEVC Main 10, and it seems Skylake won't be supporting that in hardware, and it seems the support on Y is even less, but I am having a hard time sorting all the details out.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Its hybrid decode for 10bit HEVC.

 

[Eug]

Its hybrid decode for 10bit HEVC.

On Skylake Y too? Up to what resolution?

I'd like to see a table somewhere going through the SKU classes and HEVC support, and vs. resolutions.

Hybrid decode is a little worrisome to me, for a SKU as low clocked as Skylake Y.

4K support would be desirable. No not because I actually need 4K resolution but because I just want the ability to play it cleanly if I already have the files.

That may be enough for me to wait until the next generation Kaby... or later?

---

In the old days I targetted my main machines to be able to play 1080p H.264 regardless if it had an 1080p monitor or not. This has served me well, since 1080p H.264 became the de facto standard and it was nice to be able to get a file once and play it on all my devices. Even my tablets and phones can play those files now. They can't for 4K HEVC, but my next generation laptop and desktops will need to be able to play these files (HEVC main 10) without going into vacuum cleaner fan mode. And I'm willing to wait to make my purchases.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Its the new normal for Intel thanks to their 14nm process yields. Don't expect 10nm to change that either.

This was what Intel said about the 14 nm yields at the Investor's Meeting on November 20, 2014:

So then either things turned out much worse than they expected, or they lied / covered up about the 14 nm yields issues.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Still just looks like a US issue. No surprise.

 

[ShintaiDK]

On Skylake Y too? Up to what resolution?.

4K? Its in your link as well.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Still just looks like a US issue. No surprise.

Intel has already confirmed it's a global Skylake supply issue.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...al-shortage-of-intel-skylake-microprocessors/

 

[ShintaiDK]

Intel has already confirmed it's a global Skylake supply issue.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...al-shortage-of-intel-skylake-microprocessors/

I think you confuse Asus and Intel.

 

[Fjodor2001]

I think you confuse Asus and Intel.

From the article: "Asustek and Intel confirm global shortage of Intel “Skylake” chips"

And why would we only see shortage in the US by the way? They are usually among the countries to get new tech stuff first, if a company has to prioritize.

Regardless, there is a shortage. The severity of that might of course differ per country, e.g. due to local demand and similar. But as IDC said, the shortage is likely due to poor 14 nm yields. And that is despite that Intel at the Investors meeting in November 2014 said that the 14 nm yields were progressing without troubles. That's the main issue here.

 

[witeken]

On Skylake Y too? Up to what resolution?

I'd like to see a table somewhere going through the SKU classes and HEVC support, and vs. resolutions.

Hybrid decode is a little worrisome to me, for a SKU as low clocked as Skylake Y.

4K support would be desirable. No not because I actually need 4K resolution but because I just want the ability to play it cleanly if I already have the files.

That may be enough for me to wait until the next generation Kaby... or later?

---

In the old days I targetted my main machines to be able to play 1080p H.264 regardless if it had an 1080p monitor or not. This has served me well, since 1080p H.264 became the de facto standard and it was nice to be able to get a file once and play it on all my devices. Even my tablets and phones can play those files now. They can't for 4K HEVC, but my next generation laptop and desktops will need to be able to play these files (HEVC main 10) without going into vacuum cleaner fan mode. And I'm willing to wait to make my purchases.

HEVC 8-bit Decode in Multi-Format Codec (MFX)-4Kp60 with 240Mbps high bitrate-Multi-stream capability

•HEVC 10-bit decode with GPU acceleration


Mark graphics to find more sessions, information: http://myeventagenda.com/sessions/0B9F4191-1C29-408A-8B61-65D7520025A8/7/5

 

[Arachnotronic]

This was what Intel said about the 14 nm yields at the Investor's Meeting on November 20, 2014:

So then either things turned out much worse than they expected, or they lied / covered up about the 14 nm yields issues.

Those are the yields for the lead 14nm Broadwell product, an 82mm^2 die. A 122mm^2 or so die, especially one that runs reliably at 4GHz base/4.2GHz turbo is obviously going to be much harder to produce.

I believe Idontcare when he says the yields on these products aren't great. Given the relatively poor PC market and the need to sell as much product as possible, there's really no better explanation in my mind.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Good points. Maybe also why Intel decided to not release any desktop Broadwell until just before Skylake (and then only released some very specialized desktop Broadwell models anyway). I.e. because at the time when first 14 nm chips were launched, the 14 nm process was not as a stage where they had sufficient yields on large dies with high frequencies.

That's a bit unusual though. I think it's the first process node that this has happened on for Intel that I can recall. Previously they have always been able to produce large dies at high frequencies available at launch of chips from a new process node.

 

[ShintaiDK]

From the article: "Asustek and Intel confirm global shortage of Intel “Skylake” chips"

And why would we only see shortage in the US by the way? They are usually among the countries to get new tech stuff first, if a company has to prioritize.

Regardless, there is a shortage. The severity of that might of course differ per country, e.g. due to local demand and similar. But as IDC said, the shortage is likely due to poor 14 nm yields. And that is despite that Intel at the Investors meeting in November 2014 said that the 14 nm yields were progressing without troubles. That's the main issue here.

Yes, the article headline. You claimed it was officially.

US is a small market. Welcome to the new world. Asia->Europe->Americas.

 

[Fjodor2001]

The Intel spokesman interviewed in the article also confirms it.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Good points. Maybe also why Intel decided to not release any desktop Broadwell until just before Skylake (and then only released some very specialized desktop Broadwell models anyway). I.e. because at the time when first 14 nm chips were launched, the 14 nm process was not as a stage where they had sufficient yields on large dies with high frequencies.

That's a bit unusual though. I think it's the first process node that this has happened on for Intel that I can recall. Previously they have always been able to produce large dies at high frequencies available at launch of chips from a new process node.

Yeah, definitely not up to the typical Intel execution with 14nm sadly.

They better get yields fixed soon because they will need to be ramping 14nm Broadwell-EP, which should come in fairly large die sizes, shortly.

 

[witeken]

I believe Idontcare when he says the yields on these products aren't great. Given the relatively poor PC market and the need to sell as much product as possible, there's really no better explanation in my mind.

Yields are good, but not as superb as 14nm, that's the problem. I bet TSMC and Samsung would love to have Intel's 14nm yields.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Yields are good, but not as superb as 14nm, that's the problem. I bet TSMC and Samsung would love to have Intel's 14nm yields.

To me, "good" would mean that I don't have to participate in the F5 Olympics in order to hand Intel hundreds of dollars to buy a processor.

 

[clamum]

Hey guys, I have a question about the i5 6600k and DDR4. I apologize if this has been asked and answered already.

I'm looking at upgrading my i5 750 soon and have pretty much decided on the 6600k. I checked and the supported RAM includes DDR4-1866 and DDR4-2133. Am I correct in understanding that faster RAM than 2133 isn't necessary unless you're overclocking? Thanks!

 

[Idontcare]

That's a bit unusual though. I think it's the first process node that this has happened on for Intel that I can recall. Previously they have always been able to produce large dies at high frequencies available at launch of chips from a new process node.

Actually, from a process engineering standpoint, Intel has only managed to do that for just a few nodes.

Think about Devil's Canyon, why did it take a year to finally come out with a 4790K SKU at that clockspeed versus the 4770K? (that's a rhetorical question, obvious answer is obvious, but just trying to jog your memory)

The only node for which I can recall Intel managing to launch their highest-clocked SKU for the node on day 1 of the product launching for that node is with 32nm, and even then I might be wrong about what 32nm Westmere debuted at versus 32nm Sandy Bridge a yer later.

Prior to that node, for decades Intel routinely released faster clockspeed chips on the same node as the node matured and yields improved. 14nm is more of a return to the norm versus an aberration or excursion, it only appears to be an excursion if you have a short-term view on history (and why that history came about in the fab so long ago).

 

[ShintaiDK]

The Intel spokesman interviewed in the article also confirms it.

You mean the guy that said supply tightness and strong demand?

Conclusion is that Skylake sell like hotcakes? Thanks!

 

[Arachnotronic]

Hey guys, I have a question about the i5 6600k and DDR4. I apologize if this has been asked and answered already.

I'm looking at upgrading my i5 750 soon and have pretty much decided on the 6600k. I checked and the supported RAM includes DDR4-1866 and DDR4-2133. Am I correct in understanding that faster RAM than 2133 isn't necessary unless you're overclocking? Thanks!

AFAIK, Skylake is memory bandwidth hungry even at stock. I would go with DDR4-2666; pricing is pretty decent on them and it's a solid boost from DDR-2133.

 

[Fjodor2001]

You mean the guy that said supply tightness and strong demand?

Conclusion is that Skylake sell like hotcakes? Thanks!

He confirms the supply problem. Of course he tries to explain it by saying that it's because there is strong demand, the guy is working as a spokesman for Intel after all! As a spokesman you usually try to spin things in a positive manner for your company.

However we all know the PC business is down globally, and people are buying less desktop PCs. So that's not likely to be the real explanation.

 

[Arachnotronic]

He confirms the supply problem. Of course he tries to explain it by saying that it's because there is strong demand, the guy is working as a spokesman for Intel after all!

However we all know the PC business is down globally, and people are buying less desktop PCs. So that's not likely to be the real explanation.

From what IDC has said, coupled with my own understanding of the current industry dynamics, here is what I am thinking:

PC OEMs have been drawing down their own inventories in anticipation of both Windows 10 and Skylake. This drawdown went on during Q1 and Q2.

In Q3, the OEMs need to refill their inventories from low levels, which means that there should be fairly robust demand for 14nm Skylake processors (2H of the year is seasonally strong, amplifying this effect). I would imagine, then, that Intel is allocating the vast majority of its 14nm production to servicing these big OEM needs since, after all, this is how most PCs are sold.

The "boxed" processors that you and I buy aren't the first priority; OEMs need to be serviced first and once Intel CPU supply and OEM demand are in balance, Intel will increase supply of boxed processors.

Just my two cents, for what it's worth.

 

[PhIlLy ChEeSe]

Hey guys, I have a question about the i5 6600k and DDR4. I apologize if this has been asked and answered already.

I'm looking at upgrading my i5 750 soon and have pretty much decided on the 6600k. I checked and the supported RAM includes DDR4-1866 and DDR4-2133. Am I correct in understanding that faster RAM than 2133 isn't necessary unless you're overclocking? Thanks!

Correct, do your home work! When you find a motherboard you want/like go to there support page make sure it supports what ever memory you use. Not all of them post as to weather is will or not. You can google there number to even call them.........