• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."
  • Community Question: What makes a good motherboard?

Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

Page 102 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
8,493
1,485
126
You're comparing a 95w chip made for the desktop (Sandy) to a 65w Mobile-first Chip (Broadwell). ANd broadwell still keeps up. Imagine if it was designed for the desktop and given 30 more watts?

That's why Skylake, a full 95w chip meant for the desktop, is going to be a great upgrade for Sandy owners.
Intel likely made the TDP 95W to improve yield... you shouldn't think of it as a 'chip meant for desktop'.

I still wonder about the 6600K. It might be the worst of the lot.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,127
131
There are Broadwell desktop SKUs.
And early tests suggest Skylake-S beats Broadwell-K by 10.5% per clock, more than Haswell vs Ivy Bridge in a lot of reviews.

The fact that Intel decided to skip some SKUs because Broadwell got so delayed does not matter.
Can you please provide a source? All roadmaps going back to 2013 don't have any reference about Broadwell parts replacing existing Haswell parts, other than the new segment (Iris Pro as a socketed lower-power desktop part at a premium price).

It's like some people say:

''If someone makes a claim, the burden of evidence is upon him. I didn't make the claim, you did. Ask yourself for the proof.''
Broadwell is a new Intel CPU generation no matter how you try to spin it.
It is, yet it didn't replace Haswell on desktops, no matter how you try to spin it.
I can go on with this all day, I know you're just trolling but it's actually kind of fun.

ShintaiDK said:
Broadwell was never to get anymore desktop SKUs than the C models. Stop making up stories. We know you hate the company, move on.
Precisely. :)
 
Last edited:

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,143
816
126
Doesn't matter. Broadwell was still a new CPU generation no matter how you try to spin it. The fact that Intel decided to release only a few placeholder Broadwell SKUs on desktop since it got so delayed does not change that fact.
But wait, weren't you saying Intel releasing desktop Broadwell didn't count because it was limited skus that were released? Let me know if you want me to find that post for you.

Anyway, I just looked it up, there are applications where a Phenom II are faster than an 8370. I'd say AMDs performance improvements over multiple generations are pretty crappy.
 
Last edited:

CHADBOGA

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2009
2,023
636
136
You know I don't see how Skylake can be excused for having worse gaming performance right now.

If it is due to current DDR4 speeds not being fast enough, well that just means that buying a Skylake system right now isn't as appealing as it might be 6 to 9 months down the road when significantly faster DDR4 is available.

Whilst I am not looking to upgrade anyway, I regard the lower gaming scores as a real concern, as I regard gaming(taking into account whether it is a GPU limited score) as the most important of all the benchmarks for a desktop CPU.

Hopefully other reviews tell a different story.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
128
106
There are Broadwell desktop SKUs. The fact that Intel decided to skip some SKUs because Broadwell got so delayed does not matter. Broadwell is a new Intel CPU generation no matter how you try to spin it.
What SKUs did they skip?

Doesn't matter. Broadwell is still a new Intel CPU generation. What SKUs Intel decide to release based on each CPU generation is another story.
It doesnt matter because you keep being caught in making up stories you know is wrong?
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,127
131
BIOSTAR Announces Gaming Z170X Motherboard, Based on LGA1151 Socket and Skylake CPU

BIOSTAR a leading manufacturer of motherboards and graphics cards is proud to announce the release of its top-end Gaming Z170 series, the Gaming Z170X. Based on Intel’s next-gen Skylake processors, this ATX form factor sports a 2GbE LAN capability. The Z170X features onboard USB 3.0with dual front and back connectors forconvenient use. The backward compatible USB 3.1 doubles the data transfer rate from 5Gbps to 10Gbps, making transferring your favorite games, music and movies even faster.






www.ocdrift.com/biostar-announces-gaming-z170x-motherboard-based-on-lga1151-socket-and-skylake-cpu

Last minute predictions time. What do you guys expect in terms of performance, power consumption, overclocking capability and graphics performance?
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,114
2,056
136
BIOSTAR Announces Gaming Z170X Motherboard, Based on LGA1151 Socket and Skylake CPU









www.ocdrift.com/biostar-announces-gaming-z170x-motherboard-based-on-lga1151-socket-and-skylake-cpu

Last minute predictions time. What do you guys expect in terms of performance, power consumption, overclocking capability and graphics performance?
Performance: apps around 8-10% higher IPC on average. 6700K around 8% faster than 4970K in common desktop workloads. Lower performance in games than i7-5775C when paired with highest end dGPU.
Power draw: 6700K to have around the same load power draw as 4790K, maybe a bit better in idle.
Overclocking: around the same as D. Canyon chips or a bit worse. Definitely better than Broadwell but not by a huge margin.
iGPU: faster than Haswell but a lot slower than Broadwell C parts.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,143
816
126
I'm with inf64, except for the overclocking. I think from here on out overclocking isn't getting any better.
 

SK10H

Member
Jun 18, 2015
92
20
81
Note that I am only interested in top 24/7 oc stable speed in an ok quiet system. Die hard Skylake folks, skip this.


14nm Broadwell and Skylake is a severe disappointment even for someone with SB.

A little bit of history. My old i5-2500K hit 4.7-4.8 summer/winter. Switch to i5-4690k because of pci-e 3.0 and old mobo is not optimal for multi-gpu 16x + 4x. 4690k hit 4.5 at 1.3v on Noctua D15, fan speed set to low, p95 small fft hit 90C, 24C ambient, V71 case all case fans low. Not really a speed upgrade at all overall and I know it before the purchase. I bought the Z97 mobo just in case Broadwell is any good.

Since my 22nm Haswell at 1.3v is already toasty at 90C with Noctua D15, although not a realistic scenario for most workload, any result above 1.3v become unrealistic for 24/7 on a dual fan D15 which is very respectable already. My realistic expectation for Skylake is 4.4-4.5, but 4.6 is looking like it need >1.3v pure guess base on leak which is not achievable on most 24/7 setup due to the even smaller 14nm die area to cool vs Haswell. That 5.2GHz smell like controlled leak, Skylake is an oc'er Dream, TM Fury X. :rolleyes:

Intel and exchange rate is giving me a big reason not to bite on this

1) they would have had enough time to fix the garbage TIM and go back to Solder (don't care your reasoning, just do it, last thing I want to hear is saving a few cents if that's the reason, any other technical difficulties, go figure out yourself, that's your 60% profit margin problem.)

2) If you have Broadwell with those EDram today, can I have it on Skylake and not wait a year until Kabylake, that 1GB ram iPhone piss me off as that's a pure cash grab to force people to upgrade yearly. I am willing to pay Broadwell price for those EDram SKU if you release it now.

3) 1 US$ = 1.32 Cdn, AUD, JPY, EUR, NZD, oh my :'(

$316 6700k + $160 mobo + $250 32GB DDR4 2666 CL15 Ram (for reuse in future build, so not cheaping out) x 1.32 ~ $960 + 13% tax = $1080Cdn

Sell 4690K 250Cdn + 100-120 mobo + 12GB DDR3 from SB build $75 ~$430

Cost of upgrade: $650 gives 20GB more reusable ram, 4 more thread, maybe 4-10% ipc not doing any video encoding. Same top oc speed.

vs

Buy 32GB DDR3 $230 Cdn, Sell 12GB DDR3 $75 = $155Cdn

Diff $500Cdn for 4-10% performance - fun for new toy, stress for selling parts... No thanks.

Looking forward, Zen 8c16t is my next target. But having seen how even Intel have problem scaling beyond 4GHz on 14nm on a 4core product, really good luck on 8C Zen :p, but it's getting tired with Quad core 8 Thread mainstreadm K SKU, finish milking this already. o_O The X99 mobo is way overprice, I only need more core on a basic mobo. ;)
 

Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
601
131
116
You know I don't see how Skylake can be excused for having worse gaming performance right now.

If it is due to current DDR4 speeds not being fast enough, well that just means that buying a Skylake system right now isn't as appealing as it might be 6 to 9 months down the road when significantly faster DDR4 is available.

Whilst I am not looking to upgrade anyway, I regard the lower gaming scores as a real concern, as I regard gaming(taking into account whether it is a GPU limited score) as the most important of all the benchmarks for a desktop CPU.

Hopefully other reviews tell a different story.
DDR4 speeds are not the problem. The problem is with the CPU's crappy IMC - which only officially supports DDR4 2133Mhz. Lots of Haswell-E CPU's can't handle DDR4 2400Mhz or higher, due to the memory controller being too weak for it.

DDR4 has worse timings than DDR3, so needs raw Mhz in order to compete. DDR4 3400-4000Mhz for example should match the fastest and lowest latency DDR3.

Skylake looks to only support 2133Mhz DDR4 again, so using any DDR4 faster than 2133Mhz will be 'overclocking' the CPU's IMC, with no guarantee it will be stable.
 
Last edited:

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,542
100
91
BIOSTAR Announces Gaming Z170X Motherboard, Based on LGA1151 Socket and Skylake CPU









www.ocdrift.com/biostar-announces-gaming-z170x-motherboard-based-on-lga1151-socket-and-skylake-cpu

Last minute predictions time. What do you guys expect in terms of performance, power consumption, overclocking capability and graphics performance?
Maybe at ASUS level...

BTW... R.I.P VGA and USB 2.0 ...
Seems that Skylake will be the last to sport a VGA port...
At least PS2 is still alive.

DDR4 speeds are not the problem. The problem is with the CPU's crappy IMC - which only officially supports DDR4 2133Mhz. Lots of Haswell-E CPU's can't handle DDR4 2400Mhz or higher, due to the memory controller being too weak for it.

DDR4 has worse timings than DDR3, so needs raw Mhz in order to compete. DDR4 3200Mhz for example should match the fastest and lowest latency DDR3.

Skylake looks to only support 2133Mhz DDR4 again, so using any DDR4 faster than 2133Mhz will be 'overclocking' the CPU's IMC, with no guarantee it will be stable.
So... Skylake seems to be another Nehalem? Expected... so Kabylake will be the Sandy Bridge?
 

Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,660
91
91
Anyone know exactly when the NDA ends? Midnight EST?
Wondering if we'll see reviews after midnight... and if I should stay up.
 

froggermuted

Junior Member
Aug 4, 2015
21
0
0
Anyone know exactly when the NDA ends? Midnight EST?
Wondering if we'll see reviews after midnight... and if I should stay up.
Don't bother, 9:00 AM EST (GMT -5)


The more I read about 6700k, the more I think I will get a 5820k :(
 

Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
601
131
116
Anyone know exactly when the NDA ends? Midnight EST?
Wondering if we'll see reviews after midnight... and if I should stay up.
I'm wondering if there will be a stream of the Intel Skylake reveal?
 

froggermuted

Junior Member
Aug 4, 2015
21
0
0
Thanks for the info, where did you get the times from? Is there a schedule for Intel's presentation?
I can't recall exactly where, I've been looking on google for about 2 days to find every piece of information I could get my hand on. It didnt mention EST time but south korea timezone.

edit : "Yep, the reviewer is saying that the NDA for Z170 motherboards is going to be lifted at 10 pm @ South Korea, so it would be 9 am EST tomorrow.". It was about the Z170 board, not sure about the 6700k, but I assume it should be around the same time.
 
Last edited:

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
14,329
4,612
136
DDR4 speeds are not the problem. The problem is with the CPU's crappy IMC - which only officially supports DDR4 2133Mhz. Lots of Haswell-E CPU's can't handle DDR4 2400Mhz or higher, due to the memory controller being too weak for it.

DDR4 has worse timings than DDR3, so needs raw Mhz in order to compete. DDR4 3400-4000Mhz for example should match the fastest and lowest latency DDR3.

Skylake looks to only support 2133Mhz DDR4 again, so using any DDR4 faster than 2133Mhz will be 'overclocking' the CPU's IMC, with no guarantee it will be stable.
So we need tests with skylake running fast DDR3? I am sure those are just around the corner (IIRC skylake supports both ddr3 and ddr4)

ed: we all knew first gen ddr4 was gonna be crap anyway.
 

Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
601
131
116
I can't recall exactly where, I've been looking on google for about 2 days to find every piece of information I could get my hand on. It didnt mention EST time but south korea timezone.

edit : "Yep, the reviewer is saying that the NDA for Z170 motherboards is going to be lifted at 10 pm @ South Korea, so it would be 9 am EST tomorrow.". It was about the Z170 board, not sure about the 6700k, but I assume it should be around the same time.
Many thanks :)
 

Dasa2

Senior member
Nov 22, 2014
245
29
91
some of the tests in which skylake is slower are clearly gpu limited like sleeping dogs
skylake 3.6-4.2ghz 99-102fps
so maybe a driver update from nvidia will help

the l4 cache does look like a very nice improvement in some cpu heavy games though

until ddr4 gets its overall latency down into the 40s ddr3 has a fair advantage
http://www.corsair.com/en/blog/2014/september/ddr3_vs_ddr4_synthetic
 
Last edited:

JM Popaleetus

Senior member
Oct 1, 2010
350
0
76
heatware.com
I'm not sure why we're at all surprised that a mobile-focused architecture (Skylake) is only bringing a ~7% performance increase over DC. That's kind of the whole point of new Intel releases these days. The mobile market dominates, and Skylake is going to be a juggernaut in it. Increased IPC and still uses less power.

Wait for Broadwell/Skylake-E if you want the absolute best for the desktop.
 

tenks

Senior member
Apr 26, 2007
287
0
0
I'm going to wait till all the official numbers come out but I think I made up my mind as well. Based off initial leaks, I think I'm going with Haswell-E. Does anyone think its likely I can drop in a broadwell-ep xeon in my x99 board, later down the line? I want some upgrade path..
 

JM Popaleetus

Senior member
Oct 1, 2010
350
0
76
heatware.com
I'm going to wait till all the official numbers come out but I think I made up my mind as well. Based off initial leaks, I think I'm going with Haswell-E. Does anyone think its likely I can drop in a broadwell-ep xeon in my x99 board, later down the line? I want some upgrade path..
Broadwell-E should be compatible with X99. There is uncertainty if it will be skipped in favor of Skylake-E, which most likely will not be X99-based.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
2,003
126
I'm going to wait till all the official numbers come out but I think I made up my mind as well. Based off initial leaks, I think I'm going with Haswell-E. Does anyone think its likely I can drop in a broadwell-ep xeon in my x99 board, later down the line? I want some upgrade path..
Yup, you most likely will.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY