Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[.vodka]

umm where do you see raid need usb dongle ?? a link would be appreciated.

if intel really did something retard like that, oh boy what the hell happen. its so stupid i can't even believe it.

Watch the video linked a few posts above. All in all it's quite interesting, but the part you want starts at 11:10, near the end. It talks about NVMe devices, but still.. why, why stop innovation and progress right on its tracks that way?

That's just what those insane NVMe drives need, a direct connection to the CPU and all of its PCIe lanes (too bad the affordable models are gimped in this regard), then it's up to you to set them up however you want... more artificial gimping. This time it would seem you have to pay. Ridiculous.

We don't need another Intel Upgrade Ripoff Service. They had a real chance to make the greatest, most impressive HEDT platform since X58. X79/X99 were half assed attempts in comparison... Oh well..

Just wait till the second key comes in to unlock the feature on SSDs other than Intel branded. /s

I won't be touching an Intel product even with a laser pointer if that happens, despite using their stuff for the past 10 years and counting... If they walk down that path it'll probably get worse. Yeah, I get the /s, but you know how Intel operates when they enter full greedy/Apple mode.

Why can't we all go back to one of the many golden ages of computing with a Core 2-like Intel innovating and providing value instead of pulling all this crap? Do they really need another wake up call like the Athlon 64 back in the day to get back to that mindset?

 

[Nothingness]

Is GeekBench optimized for AVX (forget AVX-512)? The SGEMM/DGEMM scores look way too low on the 7820X vs the 1800X. There's only a 20% difference.

EDIT: Only 88 GFLOPS on "DGEMM". What a joke.

It's the older Geekbench 3, Geekbench 4 is better tuned (even though it likely doesn't reach the speed of Intel optimized libs).

 

[krumme]

I really don't understand the hate.

Come on. Its dissapointment.
You think its about brand but remember all people here is used to solely buy intel stuff. And have up until marts this year for like 11 years!
And i think you perfectly well understands the disapointment and at least have a bit of that dissapointment in you so you recon what it is?

For us 7820/7900 is competing with 12c/16c tr.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Compare the 7900X to the 1800X. Better single-thread performance (4.3GHz max turbo boost 2.0, 4.5GHz turbo boost max on two cores), faster all-core turbo, more feature rich platform, more PCI Express lanes (28 vs 16), etc. for $100-$150 more.

I really don't understand the hate.

While I do note that the prices are better, I do believe Intel should price more aggressively (cheaper) in light of the competition and some of the specifications, and if they're smart they will reduce them quickly. Because, who doesn't like paying less?

 

[beginner99]

Quad channel memory on top of that vs AM4 Ryzen.

Quad channel doesn't bring much to the table for most use cases. And if you actually need it, AM4 is out of the question anyway. In fact with current RAM prices quad channel is hell of expensive. I don't need 32 gb of RAM now. But if I go 4x4 I might need to upgrade 5 years down the line.

BTW Linus' video sums up my thoughts quite well about the X299 platform and Kabylake-X being a pointless addition that only serves to complicate things, plus all the stuff about the >12c parts.... until I learned of the $$$$ USB stick unlocking RAID modes... I truly got upset about that. What the f*** is that crap?! My dinosaur of a P67 motherboard can do all those (0,1,5,10) and even more! Before that, my ancient P35+ICH9R motherboard could also do those!

Yeah it a joke. But the main difference with this new RAID is that it works on M.2 SSDs on PCIe comming from the CPU. before the raid feature came from the chipset and hence only drives connected to the chipset could use it.

 

[PhonakV30]

ok I watched Linus , Seriously .I didn't know:

1) Intel only supports RAID 0
2) You have to pay $99 for RAID 1,10
3) You have to pay $300 for RAID 5

Ridiculously

 

[Nothingness]

ok I watched Linus , Seriously .I didn't know:

1) Intel only supports RAID 0
2) You have to pay $99 for RAID 1,10
3) You have to pay $300 for RAID 5

Ridiculously

That makes me feel better: I was starting to think Intel was getting really nice with enthusiasts

Very disappointing.

 

[Glo.]

Compare the 7900X to the 1800X. Better single-thread performance (4.3GHz max turbo boost 2.0, 4.5GHz turbo boost max on two cores), faster all-core turbo, more feature rich platform, more PCI Express lanes (28 vs 16), etc. for $100-$150 more.

I really don't understand the hate.

459$ CPU+120$ mITX MoBo+16 GB RAM 170$ =649$.
599$+(at least) 199$ mITX MoBo + 140$ 2666 MHz quad channel RAM. 940$. Its not 100-150$ more.

Intel has to feed their fabs with money, thats why the price it so high.

Is it worth to pay 300$ more for at best 10% higher performance?

 

[wildhorse2k]

Wow so many Intel haters here. It looks like prospective Intel customers who have gone mad because they think Intel is asking too much and now they "have" to buy AMD instead of the Intel CPU they always wanted.

PCH RAID became useless because nobody will buy SATA SSDs today when there is M.2. It's also questionable how TRIM works with Intel RST, it probably doesn't. Raid 0 will be for free on X299 just as it was on Z270. Will AMD offer any RAID on X399? Is there any RAID on X370? Do you think Highpoint will sell you their RAID for free? Just for the sum of those SSDs? Developing it cost Intel some money and instead charging everyone they decided to lower the cost for people and charge only those who want to use it. Wow so many disgruntled customers who are unhappy they don't get free stuff.

Threadripper 8 core must be priced lower than 1800X because it will have lower performance due to the 2 die architecture that will likely result in high latencies. A 1800X will handle 8 thread load much better than Threadripper 8 core. In such a scenario 1800X should also be superior to Threadripper 12 core.

People worshiping AMD just because it is offering more cores, yet they don't even know the performance. Why get more idle cores if I can't utilize them? I can afford Threadripper 16C and Skylake-X 18C but why should I be getting them? I want few highly performant cores.

 

[Glo.]

People do not worship AMD, but they worship their own, hard earned money. You have to be extremely stupid to mistake this for any brand fanboyism. If even hardcore Intel supporers ale considering AMD platform understand that something went wrong for Intel.

 

[maddie]

I hope it has become apparent how having a virtual monopoly works out, but Intel is behaving as any public company would in pushing to maximize profits. You must try to grow profits annually. It is, and will be interesting to see the great defenders of these tactics. There will always be a minority who want a specific feature even at inflated prices and I look forward to seeing these corner cases being used to justify the products for the main market of users.

One of the problems with Intel, as some have said, is that they have become wedded to high margins and used these to fund many acquisitions and diversification plans. Some were bad decisions and probably made because they are a wealthy company. The Tech equivalent of OPEC and oil prices. We see the same thing with Microsoft. If margins and profits fall significantly, long made plans will be in chaos. Presently, there appears to be mixed company inertia, denial and confusion. I assume there are going to be many changes within the next few years.

 

[maddie]

Wow so many Intel haters here. It looks like prospective Intel customers who have gone mad because they think Intel is asking too much and now they "have" to buy AMD instead of the Intel CPU they always wanted.

PCH RAID became useless because nobody will buy SATA SSDs today when there is M.2. It's also questionable how TRIM works with Intel RST, it probably doesn't. Raid 0 will be for free on X299 just as it was on Z270. Will AMD offer any RAID on X399? Is there any RAID on X370? Do you think Highpoint will sell you their RAID for free? Just for the sum of those SSDs? Developing it cost Intel some money and instead charging everyone they decided to lower the cost for people and charge only those who want to use it. Wow so many disgruntled customers who are unhappy they don't get free stuff.

Threadripper 8 core must be priced lower than 1800X because it will have lower performance due to the 2 die architecture that will likely result in high latencies. A 1800X will handle 8 thread load much better than Threadripper 8 core. In such a scenario 1800X should also be superior to Threadripper 12 core.

People worshiping AMD just because it is offering more cores, yet they don't even know the performance. Why get more idle cores if I can't utilize them? I can afford Threadripper 16C and Skylake-X 18C but why should I be getting them? I want few highly performant cores.

Are you seriously arguing that customers buying into the Skylake X line of products are asking for free stuff. Your statement is beyond ridiculous.

 

[csbin]

https://www.chiphell.com/thread-1741861-1-1.html

Xeon Gold 6150（7980XE）18C/36T 165W TDP All Core 3.4G：R15 2981 Score
E5 2679 V4 20C/40T 200W TDP All Core 3.2G： R15 3200 Score
Ryzen ThreadRipper 1998x 16C32T ：R15 3000-3200 Score

 

[maddie]

459$ CPU+120$ mITX MoBo+16 GB RAM 170$ =649$.
599$+(at least) 199$ mITX MoBo + 140$ 2666 MHz quad channel RAM. 940$. Its not 100-150$ more.

Intel has to feed their fabs with money, thats why the price it so high.

Is it worth to pay 300$ more for at best 10% higher performance?

It's even worse if you are willing to overclock. AFAIK, that is the lowest price Intel 8 core. I guess many will become more appreciative of the Pareto rule.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Wow so many Intel haters here. It looks like prospective Intel customers who have gone mad because they think Intel is asking too much and now they "have" to buy AMD instead of the Intel CPU they always wanted.

PCH RAID became useless because nobody will buy SATA SSDs today when there is M.2. It's also questionable how TRIM works with Intel RST, it probably doesn't. Raid 0 will be for free on X299 just as it was on Z270. Will AMD offer any RAID on X399? Is there any RAID on X370? Do you think Highpoint will sell you their RAID for free? Just for the sum of those SSDs? Developing it cost Intel some money and instead charging everyone they decided to lower the cost for people and charge only those who want to use it. Wow so many disgruntled customers who are unhappy they don't get free stuff.

Threadripper 8 core must be priced lower than 1800X because it will have lower performance due to the 2 die architecture that will likely result in high latencies. A 1800X will handle 8 thread load much better than Threadripper 8 core. In such a scenario 1800X should also be superior to Threadripper 12 core.

People worshiping AMD just because it is offering more cores, yet they don't even know the performance. Why get more idle cores if I can't utilize them? I can afford Threadripper 16C and Skylake-X 18C but why should I be getting them? I want few highly performant cores.

Every forum that I am on has a similar thread which shortly went from discussing the tech by people who are genuinely interested in it or pursuing it, to "Intel sucks" and "Hail AMD" (even though, as you pointed out, we almost know nothing about; speaking of blindly following) - and I left because of it. Personally it irritates me and derails the thread and subsequently there's no interesting discussion anymore by those interested because there's no space in-between all the discontent. What makes those who choose not purchase a Core X Series CPU for whatever reason coming back to its respective thread to continuously post his/her discontent? Having such constant frustration must be exhausting thus wouldn't it be kinder on their piece of mind to just say to themselves "No, I'm not buying it for x reason" and move on?

 

[jpiniero]

I hope it has become apparent how having a virtual monopoly works out, but Intel is behaving as any public company would in pushing to maximize profits. You must try to grow profits annually. It is, and will be interesting to see the great defenders of these tactics. There will always be a minority who want a specific feature even at inflated prices and I look forward to seeing these corner cases being used to justify the products for the main market of users.

The high prices are what's kept Intel interested though. As long as Intel's products are clearly better in games I doubt they will care much, although yeah they will not get as much money if people continue to buy the 7700K versus the 7800X. HEDT has really been all about epeen so it's tough to say if AMD can really change things beyond lowering Intel's profits.

 

[lolfail9001]

459$ CPU+120$ mITX MoBo+16 GB RAM 170$ =649$.
599$+(at least) 199$ mITX MoBo + 140$ 2666 MHz quad channel RAM. 940$. Its not 100-150$ more.

$120 mITX mobo on AM4 and $250 X299 mITX mobo do not compete in quality, you know.

 

[scannall]

A USB key to unlock RAID - Ridiculous!

Not USB. It goes into a header on the motherboard.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

That's exactly what people shouldn't do. R7 1700 is real and it can't be imagined or hoped away by those trying to pretend $600 is acceptable for an 8 core CPU at this stage in the game, not to mention what threadripper will bring to the $600 price bracket. Its going to get worse for Intel.
I don't attack Intel for fun or because I have some strange axe to grind. I've had Intel CPU's for ever. The issue is that with new competition there should be new value offered by intel, and they almost had it until they decided to pretend R7 1700 doesn't exist, priced their chips too high (yet again) and gave us TIM instead of solder. Intel's image is suffering pretty bad right now IMO and rightly so.

This is precisely why I said earlier that I think we may see Intel drop the prices on the HEDT chips, which is why I may delay my build into the fall. What if AMD has a 12-core Threadripper at $600? A 16-core under $1000 (yes, I'm aware of the $850 rumor)? There is no way Intel can charge a $600 premium - their performance is obviously stronger but it isn't that much stronger. That $600 can go towards GPUs, faster RAM, a 2 TB NVMe drive - you get the picture. I saw a thread here the other day about a game (Tomb Raider?) releasing a patch which boosts performance for both Intel and Ryzen, but the boost for Ryzen seemed to be larger and it significantly narrowed the gap. Why would I pay a $600 Intel premium for 10-15 fps when both fps numbers are off the charts?

I've always favored higher ST performance over more cores, but that might change this round. Threadripper must just be too compelling for me to pass up.

EDIT: I'm seeing posts about a dongle being required to unlock RAID1 and above on SKL-X. LOL!

 

[blue11]

https://www.chiphell.com/thread-1741861-1-1.html

Xeon Gold 6150（7980XE）18C/36T 165W TDP All Core 3.4G：R15 2981 Score
E5 2679 V4 20C/40T 200W TDP All Core 3.2G： R15 3200 Score
Ryzen ThreadRipper 1998x 16C32T ：R15 3000-3200 Score

Hilarious if true. It must be that new cache structure actually causing a massive performance backslide. It sure makes you laugh when you remember the predictions of "10% more IPC than client" earlier in this thread.

Not USB. It goes into a header on the motherboard.

Maybe a crack will get released for the dongle. We may be witnessing a milestone in the consumer PC space, where motherboards need to have cracks applied for the first time. This latest news was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I can already see the next step being "season passes" for platform features. Intel can go nickel and dime some other sucker; I am done with them.

 

[scannall]

Wow so many Intel haters here. It looks like prospective Intel customers who have gone mad because they think Intel is asking too much and now they "have" to buy AMD instead of the Intel CPU they always wanted.

I am not FOR Intel.

I am not FOR AMD.

I am for ME.

Intel isn't selling the parts I want, at a price I am willing to pay. AMD is. It's not anymore difficult than that. When I put together a system, first I figure out what it is going to be used for.
Then a budget. I know, a few people can just buy with blindfolds on. I don't. I could, but wanton wastefulness isn't built into me anywhere.

Then I start the parts list, with the first two steps as a guide. Keeping the goal of the system in mind, I strive for overall performance and balance. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to have a Celeron driving a pair of 1080ti's in SLI to a 4k screen for example.

For the things I do, I need cores. Lots of them. And for my gaming, that will all be on a 4k monitor. For the price difference between AMD and Intel on an 8 core CPU I can add a second 1080ti for example and meet my budget target. Which would make the system better balanced for my uses than an equivalent Intel setup.

It's not about hating Intel at all. It's simply a business decision. The whole rooting for companies like they were sports teams has always puzzled me. What's the point? When I was young it was Ford vs Chevy vs Mopar. Didn't make any sense then either.

And my last bit of puzzlement... Why are people buying luxury home computer parts, and driving a trailer park 1080 monitor? The monitor is the part you interact with, and spend all your time in front of when you're using your computer. If you're going high end on the guts, the screen really needs to match.

 

[Sweepr]

"The 18-core CPUs are not scheduled until later this year. Won't have them for a while. Either way, unless you're using the rig for rendering or encoding to make a living, no need."

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?93632-Late-June&p=653561&viewfull=1#post653561

 

[blue11]

$120 mITX mobo on AM4 and $250 X299 mITX mobo do not compete in quality, you know.

There have been so many posts along these lines. What are these amazing features or qualities that the overpriced X299 boards have? I do not see any 10 Gbit, 40 Gbit, 100 Gbit, etc. NICs on any of the offerings. I also do not see any integrated GTX 1080s. The motherboard may as well be made of cardboard, seeing as it serves no purpose beyond providing a place into which you plug components.

OK, so some X299 board is out there with 57 power phases. Maybe on LN2 it can clock 100 MHz higher than another board, providing "great" value for that $100+ premium. Meanwhile, a basic B350 motherboard supports the maximum R7-1700 OC, has a Gbit NIC, and has slots for all the peripherals and expansion cards you could possibly need.

 

[lolfail9001]

Meanwhile, a basic B250 motherboard supports the maximum R7-1700 OC

B250 is Intel chipset, your competency as always is lacking. Also, almost no B350 board handles memory overclocks well, that's what motherboards are important for.

Insulting other members is not allowed.
Markfw
Anandtech Moderator

and has slots for all the peripherals and expansion cards you could possibly need.

Does not support PCIe bifurcation, so no, it does not even allow you to hook up more than 1 thing to CPU PCI-e lanes.

Oh, and if you claim that even B350 board has all PCI-e slots you will ever need, then why are you complaining about 28 lanes on 7820X? That's 12 more lanes than you will ever need!

 

[blue11]

your competency as always is lacking.

Says the guy who doesn't even know how thermal throttling works. I noticed how you disappeared into the woodwork after your last BS post was thoroughly debunked.

Insulting other members is not allowed.
Markfw
Anandtech Moderator