Yuck. Revenue down 32% and again they lost money.
CCG revenue down 36%, DCG down 33%... that in Q4 compared to previous year.
Q1 Guidance is even worse... revenue down 40% YoY.
It doesn't make sense, even for Apple. Given that Intel no longer has the scale to justify operating an in house fab and has to become a foundry, none of those companies have the scale to do so either.
Since none of them would have any desire to operate a foundry business, they are no threat for a hostile takeover. If a hostile takeover occurred it would have to be some sort of private investment fund, but since the US government would never allow Intel to be controlled by a foreign power it would have to be majority funded in the US. Seems much more likely Intel would instead end up in bankruptcy reorganization if things got that bad. The shareholders would get zeroed, and the creditors become the new shareholders.
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Intel might be a significantly different looking company in 10yrs than it is now. But they are not going anywhere. It has become a national security issue, as others have pointed out.
They have that IBM institutional rot eating them away. Getting rid of dead weight in middle and upper management certainly wouldn't hurt. Reading about how brilliant ideas can't get past a certain level where some moron in charge squashes them, is a Greek tragedy.
They have that IBM institutional rot eating them away. Getting rid of dead weight in middle and upper management certainly wouldn't hurt. Reading about how brilliant ideas can't get past a certain level where some moron in charge squashes them, is a Greek tragedy.
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
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Does Intel have that x86 patent nullification poison pills like AMD has? I'd say the reason AMD was never bought and stripped for parts during their dark days was their best parts wouldn't have been part of the bargain.
desrever
Member
- Nov 6, 2021
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Intel wants 10 bln euros of government funding for plant in Germany -Handelsblatt
Intel has provided the German economy ministry with a new calculation for a planned chip factory in the city of Magdeburg that considers almost 10 billion euros ($10.74 billion) of government funding to be necessary, business daily Handelsblatt reported on Wednesday, citing government sources.
Intel's plan is just to get governments to pay for everything. Socialize the cost and privatize the profits.
No need to cut dividend if they just ask for more money.
Just more welfare for the rich.... Great...Intel wants 10 bln euros of government funding for plant in Germany -Handelsblatt
Intel has provided the German economy ministry with a new calculation for a planned chip factory in the city of Magdeburg that considers almost 10 billion euros ($10.74 billion) of government funding to be necessary, business daily Handelsblatt reported on Wednesday, citing government sources.www.reuters.com
Intel's plan is just to get governments to pay for everything. Socialize the cost and privatize the profits.
No need to cut dividend if they just ask for more money.
moinmoin
Diamond Member
- Jun 1, 2017
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Since x64 is AMD's it's a cross licensing agreement and goes both ways these days indeed.
The patents on the x86 stuff have long expired. Same with *most* of the x64 things. There are a few more modern extensions that are likely still covered though. It would be interesting to see someone like Samsung or Mediatec build a basic x86 + x64 CPU without the extensions still covered.
moinmoin
Diamond Member
- Jun 1, 2017
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It's not just patents. The Google vs. Oracle lawsuit established that APIs are copyrightable which I'd expect to cover ISAs like x86 as well. Without agreement with Intel and/or AMD and their cross licensing agreement permitting such external agreements as well any implementations are legal grey area. I guess emulation is generally considered fair use by now. But I can imagine Intel/AMD asking for injunctions when somebody successfully tries to re-implement x86 compatible with modern software in hardware.
It would be a tricky argument for them to make that Apple's x86 emulation via Rosetta 2 is OK but putting x86 emulation in hardware is not. The Google vs Oracle lawsuit was fought over many years and was fundamentally about software APIs so it is questionable whether a court would view it as precedent for a hardware architecture's ISA being covered under copyright.
One would think that if Intel thought they could block Apple from using Rosetta 2 they would have tried, as even if they lost they could have gained a couple more years of sales to Apple. Sure Apple would have been incentivized to switch their x86 Macs to AMD but they couldn't make a move like that overnight. Once Apple was ready to roll out AMD Macs THEN Intel could drop the suit and allow Apple to begin their AS rollout, to prevent AMD from getting a windfall from Intel's legal action.
BorisTheBlade82
Senior member
- May 1, 2020
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How about Transmeta back then? They also had no x86 license, had they?
/edit: Because they did hardware emulation IIRC.
/edit: Because they did hardware emulation IIRC.
moinmoin
Diamond Member
- Jun 1, 2017
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Transmeta was known for the software layer called Code Morphing Software. As Wikipedia puts it:
"Code Morphing Software (CMS) consisted of an interpreter, a runtime system and a dynamic binary translator. x86 instructions were first interpreted one instruction at a time and profiled, then depending upon the frequency of execution of a code block, CMS would progressively generate more optimized translations."
The way their first chip Crusoe is described it doesn't contain any x86-specific hardware. That arguably amounts to emulated hardware indeed.
Terzo
Platinum Member
- Dec 13, 2005
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Intel Updates Capital Allocation to Drive Long-Term Strategy
Intel declares quarterly dividend of $0.125, reaffirms first-quarter 2023 guidance.
www.intel.com
Now Intel is cutting their dividend to a third of it's current value, from $.365/share to $.125/share. So 96 cents less expenditure per share each year, with over 1 billion shares outstanding that means Intel will have roughly an extra billion each year to work with.
I don't pretend to understand semiconductors or finance that well, but based on what I've read this was probably overdue and I was surprised they didn't announce the cut during the Q4 earnings. I wonder if something happened between now and then or if it was planned all along.
Intel Updates Capital Allocation to Drive Long-Term Strategy
Intel declares quarterly dividend of $0.125, reaffirms first-quarter 2023 guidance.
Now Intel is cutting their dividend to a third of it's current value, from $.365/share to $.125/share. So 96 cents less expenditure per share each year, with over 1 billion shares outstanding that means Intel will have roughly an extra billion each year to work with.
I don't pretend to understand semiconductors or finance that well, but based on what I've read this was probably overdue and I was surprised they didn't announce the cut during the Q4 earnings. I wonder if something happened between now and then or if it was planned all along.
I would have prefer them stop the dividend but still a good move for long term health of the company. Stock should drop more in the coming days
Execs probably needed extra time to sell their stock. (The Stock was down 5% yesterday, presumably because the details of the cut leaked out early)
Jimzz
Diamond Member
- Oct 23, 2012
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wow... I knew things were bad at Intel but not this bad...
Intel slashes dividend by over 65%
www.cnbc.com
Intel slashes dividend by over 65%
Intel slashes dividend by over 65%, to 12.5 cents
Intel slashed its dividend from 36.5 cents to 12.5 cents, a 65% reduction that comes just weeks after the chipmaker announced wide-ranging compensation cuts.
Intel Updates Capital Allocation to Drive Long-Term Strategy
Intel declares quarterly dividend of $0.125, reaffirms first-quarter 2023 guidance.
Now Intel is cutting their dividend to a third of it's current value, from $.365/share to $.125/share. So 96 cents less expenditure per share each year, with over 1 billion shares outstanding that means Intel will have roughly an extra billion each year to work with.
I don't pretend to understand semiconductors or finance that well, but based on what I've read this was probably overdue and I was surprised they didn't announce the cut during the Q4 earnings. I wonder if something happened between now and then or if it was planned all along.
I’m sure it was planned. Timing wise, I’m sure they wanted to get through the payout of the most recent dividend (happened after the earnings report) before announcing the cut. With that said, I do think that it is overdue and announcing the employee salary/benefit cuts and firings first was not that smart.
Checking some investor website comments, it seems Pat said just last year that he saw Intel sustaining and even increasing their dividend over the next few years so some investors feeling a bit betrayed by this news, even if it makes the most sense from a financial POV.
Missed this when you posted it, but...
This is not what happened. The Federal Circuit ruled that APIs are copyrightable, but the Supreme Court granted certiorari and then resolved the case in Google's favor without touching the copyrightability of APIs part, by ruling that even if APIs are copyrightable, Google had fair use protections that allowed them to use them.
This means that the Federal court ruling is not precedent, and while it would have been better if APIs were deemed not copyrightable by the SC, the ruling is actually very broadly in favor of fair use of APIs, resulting in a world where APIs might be copyrightable, but everyone has the fair use right to reimplement them. Famously, in his dissent Clarence Thomas noted that it is "... difficult to imagine any circumstance in which declaring code will remain protected by copyright."
This is specifically a good thing. They did the decision I wish they had done more than a year ago. They will need to do a massive set of investments to recover, and that's hard to do in an era of terrible margins and expensive capital if you pay out every penny that comes in your company.
I just wish they had cut the rest of it too.
This is not what happened. The Federal Circuit ruled that APIs are copyrightable, but the Supreme Court granted certiorari and then resolved the case in Google's favor without touching the copyrightability of APIs part, by ruling that even if APIs are copyrightable, Google had fair use protections that allowed them to use them.
This means that the Federal court ruling is not precedent, and while it would have been better if APIs were deemed not copyrightable by the SC, the ruling is actually very broadly in favor of fair use of APIs, resulting in a world where APIs might be copyrightable, but everyone has the fair use right to reimplement them. Famously, in his dissent Clarence Thomas noted that it is "... difficult to imagine any circumstance in which declaring code will remain protected by copyright."
This is specifically a good thing. They did the decision I wish they had done more than a year ago. They will need to do a massive set of investments to recover, and that's hard to do in an era of terrible margins and expensive capital if you pay out every penny that comes in your company.
I just wish they had cut the rest of it too.
moinmoin
Diamond Member
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Eh? The whole fair use clause relies on something already having been copyrighted, and for that to be possible it has to be copyrightable. So this is absolutely what happened. And while this may be a tenuous distinction from a PoV within the US, it becomes critical outside of the US where copyright is enforceable but the whole concept of fair use is by far not as widespread.
IntelUser2000
Elite Member
- Oct 14, 2003
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That's nonsense. Pat and CFO David Zisner both bought shares 3 weeks ago: https://www.barrons.com/articles/intel-stock-price-ceo-pat-gelsinger-buy-51675433295
would have prefer them stop the dividend but still a good move for long term health of the company. Stock should drop more in the coming days
This is a bit of a surprise but a good move if they decided to do so. Should silence most people calling for not reducing dividends.
Intel Vows To Restore Staff Salaries In Fall As EMEA Head Resigns | CRN
Intel tells staff it will restore their base pay in October as the head of the company's EMEA business resigns, CRN has learned.
www.crn.com
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No, that's not how law works. The SC didn't rule that the subject matter is copyrightable, they ruled that in this case it didn't matter, because either it is not copyrightable and google is in the clear, or if it is copyrightable, google had fair use rights and win the case that way, so they chose to not touch the question.
This kind of reasoning is common in US law, because of binding precedent and the very strong convention that courts should not produce more precedent than what is necessary to rule on the cases in front of them. As of right now, no precedent exists in the USA for the copyrightability of APIs.
moinmoin
Diamond Member
- Jun 1, 2017
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Again, within the US. The last actual decision on this (the first appellate ruling) was that APIs are copyrightable. The Supreme Court based its decision on the assumption that APIs are copyrightable and concluded that it doesn't matter due to the fair use clause, so no further clarification was made on the topic since deemed unnecessary. Outside of the US the whole concept of fair use sees little use though.
I think we are already repeating ourselves.
Intel Vows To Restore Staff Salaries In Fall As EMEA Head Resigns | CRN
Intel tells staff it will restore their base pay in October as the head of the company's EMEA business resigns, CRN has learned.
That's good, I hope they follow through with this. Kind of makes the whole salary and bonus cuts seem even more foolish in the first place though. Was upsetting your entire work force and risk losing much of your top talent really worth just a couple quarters of cost savings? Only thing that makes any kind of sense here (to me at least) is that they started to lose more talent than they expected and so they are course correcting. I just hope that Intel's projected second half of the year recovery really does happen because it seems like that is what they are banking on for this promise to be fulfilled. If the recovery doesn't happen or is much less than expected and they end up not fully restoring employee compensation after this. . . yikes.
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