Intel profit sinks 27% on dreadful PC sales

[Olikan]

Not having to wait several seconds for any half-complex website to load?

i have yet to find a CPU that don't have any delays using a 3G or 4G

 

[nemesismk2]

intel sales sinking is understandable because the whole pc market is moving away from desktop pc

 

[ShintaiDK]

Its amazing how many wierd theories there is. Yet ARM makers, memory makers, network makers and so on goes backwards too as segments.

Seems this chart needs to be posted yet again:

Note the last line.

 

[SiliconWars]

Surely the problem with performance is easy to figure out?

Intel killed multi core computing by pricing their +4 core at the kind of prices that hardly anyone can afford. It suits their business to have smaller dies at the expense of ultimate performance. Don't blame the TDP cap - Ivy Bridge is 77W and could easily have been a ~3GHz octocore at 125W.

Don't blame the software either - AMD has been trying to go much more multithreaded for years and has been thwarted, simply because intel dominates the market in their position and it doesn't suit them for the software to be more multithreaded than it already is. If the desktop market is dying, it's because intel has strangled it for all it's worth as it attempts to maintain it's position. That's all their is to it.

If the software was available to make use of it, we could easily be looking at 16 or 24 core Kabini's next year. Whats the point when no software uses it and it'll get shot down for having poor single threaded performance in 2013?

 

[Olikan]

Surely the problem with performance is easy to figure out?

yes, with a cpu that is 300% faster, will make facebook go faster

 

[djgandy]

Is anyone truely surprised? Desktop PCs are a dying breed.

Edit: I don't think that they will disappear completely, but there will be less sales, and the cost for components will rise.

In consumer markets yes. Q4 is Christmas sales, so Intel's consumer market is being eaten into definitely. Corporate is where the big bucks are.

I love how this thread has people talking about "not upgrading anymore" etc. Do you really think you are a big slice of Intels pie lol

 

[drozay]

I never use my PC anymore

 

[frozentundra123456]

Surely the problem with performance is easy to figure out?

Intel killed multi core computing by pricing their +4 core at the kind of prices that hardly anyone can afford. It suits their business to have smaller dies at the expense of ultimate performance. Don't blame the TDP cap - Ivy Bridge is 77W and could easily have been a ~3GHz octocore at 125W.

Don't blame the software either - AMD has been trying to go much more multithreaded for years and has been thwarted, simply because intel dominates the market in their position and it doesn't suit them for the software to be more multithreaded than it already is. If the desktop market is dying, it's because intel has strangled it for all it's worth as it attempts to maintain it's position. That's all their is to it.

If the software was available to make use of it, we could easily be looking at 16 or 24 core Kabini's next year. Whats the point when no software uses it and it'll get shot down for having poor single threaded performance in 2013?

Are you serious? Hardly anyone can afford a quad core? I have seen a lot of outlandish statements in these forums but this is right up at the top. Besides you contradict yourself. You say that hardly anyone can afford a quad but that they would buy them if the software was written better.

 

[Vesku]

Gross margin cratering. So this was just an AMD problem?

Of course not, but AMD was impacted heavily because they haven't diversified into notebooks and tablets as quickly or strongly (OEM influence) as several other chip makers.

Sadly they were really banking on Bulldozer getting them back into the server market.

 

[Edgemeal]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/intel-cfo-says-margins-hit-by-aggressive-actions-2013-01-17

Quote:
margins took a hit in the fourth quarter from "aggressive tactical actions" designed to reduce inventory levels.

Just curious, did Intel mention how much inventory declined in Q4 yesterday?

[B]Intel’s inventory 	Percentage of sales[/B]
Q3 2011: $4 billion 	28%
Q4 2011: $4.1 billion 	30%
Q1 2012: $4.5 billion 	35%
Q2 2012: $4.9 billion 	36%
Q3 2012: $5.3 billion 	39% 
[COLOR="Red"]Q4 2012: $?.?  billion 	??% [/COLOR]

source:[URL="http://www.marketwatch.com/story/intel-bulls-should-hope-it-made-fewer-chips-2013-01-16?siteid=yhoof2"] Intel bulls should hope it made fewer chips[/URL]

 

[djgandy]

Are you serious? Hardly anyone can afford a quad core? I have seen a lot of outlandish statements in these forums but this is right up at the top. Besides you contradict yourself. You say that hardly anyone can afford a quad but that they would buy them if the software was written better.

The irony is that Intel processors are the cheapest they have ever been despite their lead being larger than ever. The top i7 is what $300 now?

When AMD were actually somewhat competitive Intel was charging $1000 for a CPU!

 

[Olikan]

The irony is that Intel processors are the cheapest they have ever been despite their lead being larger than ever. The top i7 is what $300 now?

When AMD were actually somewhat competitive Intel was charging $1000 for a CPU!

yep....and that shows that the market is just not doing well

 

[Idontcare]

This is nearly all due to the power wall. I'm pretty sure if 1300W was the limit rather than 130W, we'd have seen similar scaling for well... few more years.

For some reason that was the direction GPU's were headed, but CPU's pulled up short despite the fact that cooling a 300W CPU is/was far easier than attempting to shoehorn a 300W GPU cooling solution into a 2 or 3 slot height cooler

I wonder if/when we'll see the return of the sub-100W TDP GPU like Intel did in taking top-end mainstream CPU TDP's below 100W?

 

[Fox5]

The irony is that Intel processors are the cheapest they have ever been despite their lead being larger than ever. The top i7 is what $300 now?

When AMD were actually somewhat competitive Intel was charging $1000 for a CPU!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116877

They still are, they just now have a separate platform for it. And it has 2 extra cores, which is a bigger increase from the $300 to $1000 processor than there ever used to be. Extreme Editions just got you an unlocked processor, maybe a bit of cache, and a few hundred mhz back in the day. Not to mention, for certain workloads, the extra memory and memory bandwidth afforded by the 2011 platform is a big win, even if the single core performance of the processor isn't more.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Expect it to get worse, LOT worse.

Let's face it, outside of the niche market (gamers, professionals) which makes up a VERY small percentage of sales.....your average person will not benefit from an upgrade even if their PC is 4-5 years old.

This was expected. I'm actually surprised it took this long and their stock went down so little.

It will get worse...

Remember that CPU progression curve some scientist came up with? We are at the end of it NOW.

Then you have the entire tablet/phone hype....

 

[NTMBK]

For some reason that was the direction GPU's were headed, but CPU's pulled up short despite the fact that cooling a 300W CPU is/was far easier than attempting to shoehorn a 300W GPU cooling solution into a 2 or 3 slot hieght cooler

I wonder if/when we'll see the return of the sub-100W TDP GPU like Intel did in taking top-end mainstream CPU TDP's below 100W?

We have plenty of sub-100W GPUs- my own HD 7770 is 80W. The option exists for people to use lower power consumption GPUs if they want to, the same way that they can still get a 130W i7-3930k if they want to.

 

[CHADBOGA]

I never use my PC anymore

So what are you using instead and for what kind of things?

 

[StrangerGuy]

Its amazing how many wierd theories there is. Yet ARM makers, memory makers, network makers and so on goes backwards too as segments.

Seems this chart needs to be posted yet again:

Note the last line.

If we followed the logic of "growther" talk we would be like "OMG I got a -2% pay cut out of my $1M/year salary how the hell am I supposed to survive?"

 

[djgandy]

yep....and that shows that the market is just not doing well

The market is about high volumes, not a few enthusiasts who think they speak for the entire PC sector buying some I-68000K-FTW-LOLS

Intels pricing has been this way for a long time now. There mainstream prices have however reamained fairly flat. They have just got rid of all the ridiculously prices processors.

 

[djgandy]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116877

They still are, they just now have a separate platform for it. And it has 2 extra cores, which is a bigger increase from the $300 to $1000 processor than there ever used to be. Extreme Editions just got you an unlocked processor, maybe a bit of cache, and a few hundred mhz back in the day. Not to mention, for certain workloads, the extra memory and memory bandwidth afforded by the 2011 platform is a big win, even if the single core performance of the processor isn't more.

True I forgot about that. It does offer multi-socket too right and a different socket. So it is much more than just a binned CPU.

 

[Harabec]

Intel will also slowly but surely enter the phone/tablet market. Funny reading these doom and gloom posts.

 

[djgandy]

Expect it to get worse, LOT worse.

Let's face it, outside of the niche market (gamers, professionals) which makes up a VERY small percentage of sales.....your average person will not benefit from an upgrade even if their PC is 4-5 years old.

This was expected. I'm actually surprised it took this long and their stock went down so little.

It will get worse...

Remember that CPU progression curve some scientist came up with? We are at the end of it NOW.

Then you have the entire tablet/phone hype....

The valid point is that for home use, PC's are just fast enough so the upgrade cycle has slowed. By PC's I also mean laptops. The average consumer doesn't buy a PC in a case.

But there is still the corporate side of things. Faster PC's are important for a lot of industries. And even in stupid places like call centers you'll have equipment upgrades, new pc's for new employees. After 3 years of constant use the hard drives are usually wrecked and slow so a business just buys a new box.

Then you have Asia, which has been saving Intel's bacon over the past 5 years.

 

[NTMBK]

Intel will also slowly but surely enter the phone/tablet market. Funny reading these doom and gloom posts.

That Atom's really set the phone market on fire so far.

 

[Olikan]

The market is about high volumes, not a few enthusiasts who think they speak for the entire PC sector buying some I-68000K-FTW-LOLS

exacly

there is no more volume for 1k Cpu's

sure, never had much, but now is zero

 

[djgandy]

Intel will also slowly but surely enter the phone/tablet market. Funny reading these doom and gloom posts.

They already are, ticking and tocking. I am not sure why people think Intel are doomed because of ARM etc. ARM has to sell ~500 processors just to make the same profit as Intel does on a highish end Ivy Bridge.

Intel doesn't want to cut its prices. They want the choice to be between a $30 ARM soc and a $80-$100 Intel SoC, and the latter having better performance and power. The consumer pays another $50 on top of the $500 they already pay but get a superior product. Now whether Intel can pull that off is another thing entirely, but they are not interested in selling low end SoC's. It is not really viable for them. They have cut arms of their business off that make that kind of money in the past because they see it as a waste of time.