Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

[Saylick]

Lawyers and governments are involved now, so the real pain is just starting. As @Saylick mentioned, all of the Intel white knights have been slain. All that's left is the black knight from Monty Python's Holy Grail, after having his arms and legs cut off, telling us to come back so they can bite our kneecaps off. As all of the nonsense they have been spewing at us doesn't have a leg left to stand on.

I bet it won't be long before those white knights try to sweep this under the rug by telling consumers to move past RPL and focus on Arrow Lake.

"Guys, you're beating a dead horse. It's in the past now", they'll say.
"Hol' up, let me pull up the receipts", I'll say.

 

[DZero]

Raptor Lake is how to NOT to make a processor...
Heck, even Snapdragon 810 or the AMD Bulldozer line went so badly made that had degradation.
Even Snapdragon 808 had the issues due bad soldering from makers. The Mi 4c from Xiaomi were on the few who knew what to do and avoided the issues in that generation.

Can we add this generation in the Worst Processors ever?

 

[moinmoin]

I bet it won't be long before those white knights try to sweep this under the rug by telling consumers to move past RPL and focus on Arrow Lake.

"Guys, you're beating a dead horse. It's in the past now", they'll say.
"Hol' up, let me pull up the receipts", I'll say.

That will definitely happen, and that's probably how long Intel hoped to be able to keep the lid on the whole disaster. But for that to work Arrow Lake needs to be launched and available first.

 

[Steltek]

That will definitely happen, and that's probably how long Intel hoped to be able to keep the lid on the whole disaster. But for that to work Arrow Lake needs to be launched and available first.

But for that to work Arrow Lake needs to be validated as reliable, launched and available first.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Thunder 57]

No, I don't think that's the best way to handle this. The performance of Zen5 vs raptor lake is still relevant even if no one should buy Raptor Lake. Leaving Raptor Lake off the charts just serves to stir up drama.

There are buyers who are looking to switch from raptor lake. There are people who just want to know how they compare and will never buy raptor lake. And there are people who are going to buy the raptor lake successor no matter how good Zen5 is. None of them benefit from it being left off.

If they want to protect prospective buyers, put a PSA at the start of the video and mention in the summary. If they're worried that's not enough, add an asterisk to the graphs, or make the bars for raptor lake yellow and black, or add a skull or something.

Hopefully they all do better than Tomshardware, which recently updated its "Best CPU's of 2024" article and still gives Intel the win. They added this little bit near the top:

Edit: Intel has an ongoing stability issue that it plans to fix with a microcode update in mid-August. This bug doesn't impact all processors—it appears to surface on some of the shipping models but not others. It impacts an unknown number of processors, and Intel says it is confident that its patch will rectify the issue. The company says the issue impacts all 65W and above models. You can read more about the issue here.

That should make Intel an insta-lose. Oh and comments are disabled for good measure. I would expect nothing less from them.

 

[Steltek]

Hopefully they all do better than Tomshardware, which recently updated its "Best CPU's of 2024" article and still gives Intel the win. They added this little bit near the top:



That should make Intel an insta-lose. Oh and comments are disabled for good measure. I would expect nothing less from them.

Yeah, Intel might not want to commit to spend money to do recalls, yet they definitely are willing to spend enough to...influence... certain media outlets, even if those same outlets have to do behind the back CYA stuff like that to potentially save face.

All obviously part of Intel's continuing Dr. Evil-inspired FUD campaign. I wonder by any chance if Pat Gelsinger has an Angora cat?

I'm personally waiting to see what happens if this supposed fix turns affected customers' Raptor Lake CPUs into Raptor Mudpuddle CPUs.

I really hope it doesn't happen, but to this point Intel is following the same stupid-is-as-stupid-does gameplan as Boeing. And, we all know where that got Boeing....

 

[adamge]

I really hope it doesn't happen, but to this point Intel is following the same stupid-is-as-stupid-does gameplan as Boeing. And, we all know where that got Boeing....

... A new CEO!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I'd be shocked if Tom's didn't shill, as I wrote early in the thread. Some of the contributors there are shameless. Did they remove the line from that best CPUs list that said "based on the tried and true Raptor Lake."? Because that's comedy gold.

Looking at the financials that just released, the bleeding already started. They are laying off 20K not 10K, getting real ugly. I expect them to do worse than whatever they are projecting next Q. Hubris is going to cost them big.

 

[Steltek]

You know, there is one minor good thing that ought to come out of this mess.

Software devs are now on notice that it is in their financial best interest to invest in more comprehensive application crash data collection systems for their products. Might even be worth having trained AI systems to scan the collected data for commonalities.

They certainly can't blindly rely on the CPU/hardware manufacturers any more.

 

[Thunder 57]

I'd be shocked if Tom's didn't shill, as I wrote early in the thread. Some of the contributors there are shameless. Did they remove the line from that best CPUs list that said "based on the tried and true Raptor Lake."? Because that's comedy gold.

Looking at the financials that just released, the bleeding already started. They are laying off 20K not 10K, getting real ugly. I expect them to do worse than whatever they are projecting next Q. Hubris is going to cost them big.

I didn't see that line but it is a total shill piece for Intel. With the latest earnings report and layoffs I think Pat's days are numbered.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Quote from that Tom's shill piece -

The AMD vs Intel CPU conversation has changed recently, as Intel has taken the overall performance crown while undercutting AMD's price-to-performance ratio with the high-end Raptor Lake Refresh chips. Raptor Lake comes with the most disruptive change to Intel's CPU overall chip design methodology, not to mention core architectures, that we've seen in a decade. They also come with the 'Intel 7' process that has proven exceptionally competitive, particularly against AMD's superior 5nm process node from TSMC. That shifted our rankings from a 7-to-4 advantage for AMD to a 7-to-5 advantage in Intel's favor.

ROFLWaffles! it's disruptive alright. Now we learn Meteor Lake has yield problems.

Pat G -

"These decisions have challenged me to my core, and this is the hardest thing I’ve done in my career. My pledge to you is that we will prioritize a culture of honesty, transparency and respect in the weeks and months to come," Gelsinger said in his blog post. "

I hope his core isn't based on Raptor Lake, because he will need to get his affairs in order. And the bold is 100% slimy.

 

[positivedoppler]

I remember AMD used to have mass layoffs right before a disastrous earning report. Maybe Intel is stalling to address the mass recall or refund decision until after their Thursday earning report because if earning is bad and then you pile on most of the CPU sold in the past 1.5 years will have to be recalled...omg

And it was an disaster indeed

 

[Saylick]

Quote from that Tom's shill piece -

ROFLWaffles! it's disruptive alright. Now we learn Meteor Lake has yield problems.

Pat G -

I hope his core isn't based on Raptor Lake, because he will need to get his affairs in order. And the bold is 100% slimy.

Ever since Pat took the helm of Intel, he's been writing more checks than his butt can cash. I do believe that he's delivered on a few key items, but he's always trying to project an atmosphere of stability and confidence about Intel's future but so far it's been anything but that. It's almost annoying at this point because investors hear it so much but the words don't align with that their eyes are seeing.

What Pat acknowledges down below (bold is my emphasis) should have been done years ago. We all knew Intel was bloated. It shouldn't take a catastrophic quarter or an employee experience survey to realize that.

Since introducing our new operating model, we have taken a clean-sheet view of the business and assessed ourselves against benchmarks for high-performing foundries, fabless product companies and corporate functions. This work made it clear our cost structure is not competitive.

For example, our annual revenue in 2020 was about $24 billion higher than it was last year, yet our current workforce is actually 10% larger now than it was then. There are a lot of reasons for this, but it’s not a sustainable path forward.

Beyond our costs, we need to change the way we operate – something many of you shared as part of our Employee Experience Survey. There’s too much complexity, so we need to both automate and simplify processes. It takes too long for decisions to be made, so we need to eliminate bureaucracy. And there’s too much inefficiency in the system, so we need to expedite workflows.

 

[H433x0n]

Intel extends warranty for RPL processors from 3 years to 5 years.

Source

Much needed good news after a horrible day for Intel.

 

[gdansk]

Intel extends warranty for RPL processors from 3 years to 5 years.

Source

Much needed good news after a horrible day for Intel.

That is good for us boxed buyers.

Does it imply they'll keep something socket-compatible in production until 2029? LGA1700 might be Intel's best socket for misers because of this little SNAFU.

 

[RnR_au]

Intel extends warranty for RPL processors from 3 years to 5 years.

Source

Much needed good news after a horrible day for Intel.

Without a utility from Intel that can give green ticks on cpu's this additional warranty still doesn't add much comfort.

Additionally, for folk who assembles boxes, they now have to potentially deal with flaky cpu's for a long time (presumably at no cost to the consumer - so they have to wear the cost) because Intel refuses to do a recall.

Sounds to me that Intel have extended their mess for another two years.

 

[lakedude]

Intel extends warranty for RPL processors from 3 years to 5 years

Step in the right direction.

Smart, will relieve pressure. A lifetime warranty would be better.

 

[ikjadoon]

EDIT: whoops, ninja'd earlier lol. I got too trigger happy

Intel is now adding +2 years of warranty coverage for all 13th and 14th gen CPUs.

KS goes from 1yr to 3yr.
All others go from 3yr to 5yr.
OEM owners need to contact their OEM and...see what happens?

Intel announces two extra years of warranty amid chip crashing and instability issues — longer warranty applies to 13th- and 14th-Gen Core processors

Trying to build goodwill.

www.tomshardware.com

More details coming later.

This scandal will be remembered for a decade.

 

[Thunder 57]

EDIT: whoops, ninja'd earlier lol. I got too trigger happy

Intel is now adding +2 years of warranty coverage for all 13th and 14th gen CPUs.

KS goes from 1yr to 3yr.
All others go from 3yr to 5yr.
OEM owners need to contact their OEM and...see what happens?

Intel announces two extra years of warranty amid chip crashing and instability issues — longer warranty applies to 13th- and 14th-Gen Core processors

Trying to build goodwill.

www.tomshardware.com

More details coming later.

This scandal will be remembered for a decade.

The KS only came with one year warranties? What a joke. CPU's never kill themselves in my expirence. You have to really try to. The fact that old CPU's are generally readily available but motherboards that support them are typically hard to find support that.

 

[ikjadoon]

The KS only came with one year warranties? What a joke. CPU's never kill themselves in my expirence. You have to really try to. The fact that old CPU's are generally readily available but motherboards that support them are typically hard to find support that.

According to Tom's Hardware allegedly,

We do know that some models, like the Special Edition KS models, only have a one-year warranty, but that will now extend to three years.

But Newegg's i9-12900KS listing says 3 years, so...

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i9-12900ks-core-i9-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118392

I may have been bamboozled here.

 

[H433x0n]

According to Tom's Hardware allegedly,



But Newegg's i9-12900KS listing says 3 years, so...

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i9-12900ks-core-i9-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118392

View attachment 104324

I may have been bamboozled here.

The -KS SKUs are usually a 1 year warranty. For example 9900KS was a 1-year warranty too.

The 12900KS was unique by offering a 3-year warranty.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The warranty extensions are a mixed bag. "Trying to build good will" If they had done it before the bombs dropped, hell yeah. Doing it reactively instead of proactively, hits as more slimeball than feel good. It won't get them off the hook, or erase their hubris and dirtbag behavior to this point.

The extended warranties do nothing for companies like Alderon Games that have switched vendors because of the defective CPUs. They need to be fully refunded.

The warranty does nothing to pay for the expenses involved with swapping out the CPUs used in those servers either. Is Intel going to reimburse all of the affected integrators and game companies this has cost? How about lost revenue from down time? Will Intel cover all of those costs moving forward too? I think it's safe to say no, they will not. Who is going to choose raptor when the service contract from the integrator is 10 times higher than AMD? Is Intel going to insure them or pay for the contracts? I think again the answer is no.

The warranty on retail needs to extend to whomever owns the CPU, not just the OG owner. No proof of purchase necessary.

They are probably also hoping to stem the tide of preemptive RMAs. By issuing some assurance that owners won't be out the money they spent if their CPU is damaged, but yet to show instability. I would personally pay the advanced $25 RMA fee the moment the new microcode update is tested, and the bios for my board is available, should performance impact be minimal. I'd RMA regardless of performance of course; it would simply be a matter of whether I am selling the replacement and board, or keeping them. No way would I keep the current CPU until when or if it shows instability, no way.

If it does not open any legal can of worms, that's what the tech press should be recommending; that all current owners RMA after they have the new bios for their board. You can't know if your CPU is damaged or to what extent. And though Intel won't issue a recall, you certainly can.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Oh boy!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1819002394186744136

 

[coercitiv]

The warranty extension is the minimum they need to do in order to avoid all kinds of trouble. Expect Intel to keep doing the minimum necessary in tackling this issue, in the sense of small but mandatory adjustments. The next issue for them is warranty coverage for desktop system integrators, and the next after that is a clean verdict on whether any mobile CPUs are affected. If any mobile CPUs are affected then the real "fun" begins, as extended coverage for mobile will be very costly.

IMHO all that Intel is doing now is carefully scripted beforehand. They will time announcements to minimize financial exposure, they will release more information on affected CPUs and/or details on root cause only if someone else gets too close for comfort.

They are playing a very dangerous game though, effectively trading maximized (negative) media exposure for minimized financial exposure. For their long term prospects I reckon this is a trap, they will probably pay dearly in future sales while also eventually having to make the costly compromises they're trying to avoid (especially in regions of the world with strong consumer protection).

The next few months will be PR hell for them, and Arrow Lake needs to be a freaking perfect launch. In fact they might as well change it's name to Bullseye Lake today.

 

[coercitiv]

Here's a sample of the PR hell I talked about in my previous post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1ei1zvm/intel_has_denied_two_of_my_14900k_rmas

At the end of the day, it felt like Intel was grasping at straws. They pounced at the opportunity to claim that one of the CPUs was a tray product, citing a serial number that was never even provided. Then when that didn't pan out, they pivoted to claiming it was re-marked. When I pressed them, giving several pieces of evidence for why each one was indeed valid, they stated I could continue with the RMA process but then turned to threatening me with confiscation or destruction of my property if it didn't meet whatever their validation process (that they won't disclose) is. The odds of both of these being re-marked or not genuine seem extremely low. It's definitely a scare tactic. And even knowing this, it worked on me! This feels like extortion, scamming, you name it.

Even if Intel was right and both CPUs are re-marked, the way they handle the process in the light of the current situation is very bad to say the least. And keep in mind they had months to prepare for this, they don't get to claim this issue took them by surprise, with support needing more time to adjust.


[Later Edit] Oh look, they're at it again with the sneaky reddit info dissemination!

Oxidation Issue

The Via Oxidation issue currently reported in the press is a minor one that was addressed with manufacturing improvements and screens in early 2023.

The issue was identified in late 2022, and with the manufacturing improvements and additional screens implemented Intel was able to confirm full removal of impacted processors in our supply chain by early 2024. However, on-shelf inventory may have persisted into early 2024 as a result.

Minor manufacturing issues are an inescapable fact with all silicon products. Intel continuously works with customers to troubleshoot and remediate product failure reports and provides public communications on product issues when the customer risk exceeds Intel quality control thresholds.

So they just admitted a full year worth of CPUs produced in at least one location was subject to manufacturing defects. This is getting worse and worse, they knowingly sold faulty CPUs for an extended period of time. All of this feels surreal to me.