Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

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tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
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That still doesn't explain the crashes.
Isn't it obvious from the equations? A higher Icc results in lower Vcc at any given point on the Load Line.

Lower Vcc will cause instability if it is not adequate to achieve the clock frequency at a given load.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
10,928
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power virus apps like Prime95 or YCruncher barely pull more than 200W. Cinebench R15 will pull 253W since it’s not as heavy though.

At stock a 14900K use 364W with Prime 95, because the chip is not capped at 253W at stock, guess that you did implement yourself a limitation.

Computerbase on the other end use only stock settings for everything including the RAM, and only the 14700k is stock limited to 253W, this can be seen on their graphs including the one wich display the package power on Prime 95.


 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
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At stock a 14900K use 364W with Prime 95, because the chip is not capped at 253W at stock, guess that you did implement yourself a limitation.

Computerbase on the other end use only stock settings for everything including the RAM, and only the 14700k is stock limited to 253W, this can be seen on their graphs including the one wich display the package power on Prime 95.


What is "stock"?

This entire thread is about how "stock" doesn't mean Intel's specification.

Does Computerbase test it with Iccmax = 307A and DC_LL = 1.1 mOhm?
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
10,928
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What is "stock"?

This entire thread is about how "stock" doesn't mean Intel's specification.

Does Computerbase test it with Iccmax = 307A and DC_LL = 1.1 mOhm?

Stock mean that they took the CPU out of the box and mounted it in a MB that was set at stock settings for all CPUs, the 13900K and 14700K are limited at 253W at stock while there s no such a limitation for the 14900K, it have to be manually implemented.

Beside i just looked at their current review of old coolers, and best ones have about 0.27°C/watt thermal resistance when the fan is at full tilt, this mean that at 253W a CPU case will be 68°C above ambiant temp, so if the PC case is at 30°C internally the CPU case will reach 98°C, and there s still the thermal resistance between CPU case and die wich is to be accounted, at wich point the die would be at roughly 115-120°C.

So 253W is already about impossible to reasonably AIR cool on the long run, let alone 300W+, and that s the real issue here, you can limit the current the way you want, as long as there s the possibility that 115-120°C can be reached there will be inherently disfunctionalities that occur due to brutal shut downs to keep the die from reaching destructive temps levels.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,606
10,800
136
Isn't it obvious from the equations? A higher Icc results in lower Vcc at any given point on the Load Line.
Something seems off about that explanation. I understand where you've coming from, but the core complaint is that Raptor Lake is crashing in Unreal Engine games (and possibly other games). Is the current draw going to be high enough in an Unreal Engine title for that to even be a factor?

Also shouldn't the boost algo modulate clockspeed based on voltage constraints?
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
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Something seems off about that explanation. I understand where you've coming from, but the core complaint is that Raptor Lake is crashing in Unreal Engine games (and possibly other games). Is the current draw going to be high enough in an Unreal Engine title for that to even be a factor?

Also shouldn't the boost algo modulate clockspeed based on voltage constraints?
It's happening during shader compilation.
 

H433x0n

Senior member
Mar 15, 2023
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At stock a 14900K use 364W with Prime 95, because the chip is not capped at 253W at stock, guess that you did implement yourself a limitation.

Computerbase on the other end use only stock settings for everything including the RAM, and only the 14700k is stock limited to 253W, this can be seen on their graphs including the one wich display the package power on Prime 95.


It's not stock if it's pulling 364W during P95. Either the motherboard vendor isn't using Intel spec or ComputerBase is enabling XMP and that disables all current and power limits (because XMP automatically enables MCE for most consumer boards).

Stock mean that they took the CPU out of the box and mounted it in a MB that was set at stock settings for all CPUs, the 13900K and 14700K are limited at 253W at stock while there s no such a limitation for the 14900K, it have to be manually implemented.
I know from personal experience that this is not true.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,944
392
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Holy crap!

"We should expect to routinely see 400W or higher sucked down by the Core i9-14900KS, which is something AMD just doesn't need to do with its high-end Ryzen 7000 series desktop CPUs; even the X3D variants don't use anywhere near this level of power to maintain high CPU clocks. [...] These CPUs are going to run ridiculously hot, with huge voltages, power limits, and temperatures all skyrocketing at 6000MHz and over."

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9659...nfirmed-6-2ghz-at-1-5v-and-its-hot/index.html
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,944
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"In its stock form, the Core i9-14900KS reached a toasty 85C temperature and consumed 376W of power in Cinebench R23 benchmark runs. [...] With the Core i9-14900KS delidded, the temps dropped by 10C down to 75C in Cinebench R23 runs. Moving over to Y-cruncher with the stock IHS, the Core i9-14900KS was running at an even more toasty 89C and using much more power, sucking down 432W. The Y-cruncher run with the delidded Core i9-14900KS ran 7C cooler at 82C, while power dropped to 409W"
 
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tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
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"In its stock form, the Core i9-14900KS reached a toasty 85C temperature and consumed 376W of power in Cinebench R23 benchmark runs. [...] With the Core i9-14900KS delidded, the temps dropped by 10C down to 75C in Cinebench R23 runs. Moving over to Y-cruncher with the stock IHS, the Core i9-14900KS was running at an even more toasty 89C and using much more power, sucking down 432W. The Y-cruncher run with the delidded Core i9-14900KS ran 7C cooler at 82C, while power dropped to 409W"
All the lengths people will go to for this "unlimited power" benchmark runs, but nobody seems to test what will happen when PL1=150 W PL2 = 320 W and IccMax = 400 A is enforced in the BIOS with all performance enhancing exploits disabled.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,568
5,200
136
"In its stock form, the Core i9-14900KS reached a toasty 85C temperature and consumed 376W of power in Cinebench R23 benchmark runs. [...] With the Core i9-14900KS delidded, the temps dropped by 10C down to 75C in Cinebench R23 runs. Moving over to Y-cruncher with the stock IHS, the Core i9-14900KS was running at an even more toasty 89C and using much more power, sucking down 432W. The Y-cruncher run with the delidded Core i9-14900KS ran 7C cooler at 82C, while power dropped to 409W"

Still shouldn't case it to crash.
 

KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
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924
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Rather than complaining about "unlimited power" benchmark runs, the real question should be: what would a 14900KS bring over a 14900K or even plain 14900 if power was set to sane levels?

Probably nothing, which is why the KS exists in the first place.

I really hope Intel stop these furnace editions soon but I suspect legislation will be introduced soon enough.

Chasing that last 1-2% at double the power is crazy and needs to stop.
 
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AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
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What I, personally, find distasteful, is the fact that one one hand we're beginning to realize that humanity needs to curb its energy consumption and carbon emissions, in order to slow down climate change, while on the other hand greedy companies like Intel are wasting insane amounts of energy in their products, just to eke a few measly percentage gains over their AMD rivals.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,568
5,200
136
Rather than complaining about "unlimited power" benchmark runs, the real question should be: what would a 14900KS bring over a 14900K or even plain 14900 if power was set to sane levels?

They are likely better binned...
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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What I, personally, find distasteful, is the fact that one one hand we're beginning to realize that humanity needs to curb its energy consumption and carbon emissions, in order to slow down climate change, while at the same time greedy companies like Intel are wasting insane amounts of energy in their products, just to eke a few measly percentage gains over their AMD rivals.
"Don't worry" about it, currently AI companies are burning so much energy that some states in the US need to rethink their infrastructure strategy.

Whether DIY builds boost to 250W or 150W pales by comparison, and I write this from a 12700K with PL1=PL2=120W so I'm a firm believer in energy consumption with common sense.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,944
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"Don't worry" about it, currently AI companies are burning so much energy that some states in the US need to rethink their infrastructure strategy.

Whether DIY builds boost to 250W or 150W pales by comparison, and I write this from a 12700K with PL1=PL2=120W so I'm a firm believer in energy consumption with common sense.
A couple of years ago, it was crypto... now it's AI...
Like the Terminator says, it's in our nature to destroy ourselves.
 
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KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
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They are likely better binned...
Oh, I'm sure they are. So 100% tested rather some sampling they do for plain 14900 etc. but I still consider the KS a total waste of time.
Or something for people with far more money than sense.
Since all these pre-overclocked Extreme Editions put Silicon Lottery out of business, the "I will pay double for 1% and a sign saying I bought the best" people are now being directly fleeced by Intel.
Like the pre-scalped GPUs during the last mining boom, fans of big corporations can always say they that they are so happy to get bent over by the manufacturer rather than scalper.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,301
10,026
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Anyone know if this bug affects Zen1?

I've got a buddy trying to play Tekken 8 (UE5), on an AX370 Gaming (3?) with a Ryzen 3 1200 (may be overclocked), RAM was possible XMP 3200, don't know if it's currently at that.

He gets an internal error playing arcade lobby, like 2-3s into the game?

Furmark benchmark passes, 74C max on 4GB RX 570.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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Anyone know if this bug affects Zen1?

I've got a buddy trying to play Tekken 8 (UE5), on an AX370 Gaming (3?) with a Ryzen 3 1200 (may be overclocked), RAM was possible XMP 3200, don't know if it's currently at that.

He gets an internal error playing arcade lobby, like 2-3s into the game?

Furmark benchmark passes, 74C max on 4GB RX 570.
Ryzen 1200 is well below AMD minimum requirements for the game. Which is listed as a Ryzen 1600. It does okay an i5 6600K for Intel but that is significantly faster than a 1200. And could do 4.5GHz without breaking a sweat. Obviously tell him to stop overclocking if he is doing it, until finished troubleshooting.

It would not be surprising if that 1200 can't do 3200 XMP stable. Maybe with 1.4v or so and perhaps even loosening the timings a bit. Maybe not at all. I'd set it to 2666 until troubleshooting is complete. Or default JEDEC which is probably 2133.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,301
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It would not be surprising if that1200 can't do 3200 XMP stable. Maybe with 1.4v or so and perhaps even loosening the timings a bit. Maybe not at all. I'd set it to 2666 until troubleshooting is complete.
That's next on the list to try. Funny thing is, he used some UE5 TK8 tweaks on the internet to play matches online with a friend, and he says that it works great. Just certain modes / lobbies don't work, resulting in black-screen or crash.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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That's next on the list to try. Funny thing is, he used some UE5 TK8 tweaks on the internet to play matches online with a friend, and he says that it works great. Just certain modes / lobbies don't work, resulting in black-screen or crash.
If the troubleshooting doesn't get things working for him. I can donate a Ryzen 5500 if you need it. That'll get him competitive for certain.
 
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