Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[AcrosTinus]

I went through the hassle of testing the storage performance of my Raptor Lake system 14900K unleashed vs 7950x3D vs U9 285K.

Conclusion: 14900K@5,8Ghz>7950x3D>>>> U9 285K.

The test was done with 2x900P 280GB in Raid0 as well as a P5800x 400GB using CrystalDiskMark 8.0.4 on Windows 11 Pro 24H2 with virtualization on as well as the core isolation enabled.

The drives were connected if possible to the CPU Lanes using a U.2 adapter card or a m.2 to slim SAS with a redriver (switches were left default). Cable Length is 50cm.

• Sequential throughput is mostly the same across all platforms.
• Biggest Difference in the Q1T1 RND4K
  • 14900K:
    • > 450MB/s Read // 396MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 310MB/s Read // 295MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)
  • 7950x:
    • > 360MB/s Read // 285MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 250MB/s Read // 276MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)
  • U9 285K:
    • > 180MB/s Read // 120MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 165MB/s Read // 76MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)

Funny result, the IO die on Intel is a shame, even AMD can realize the Optane advantage. Only the U285 had worse load times in all respects.

AMD has somehow managed to craft a lower latency chiplet architecture that has latency so good that you won't be feeling the difference even on Optane.

SAD!

 

[DavidC1]

When the original Athlon came out it outperformed the Pentium III even in IO operations. History rhymes again.

 

[DZero]

ARL-U SKU(RWC+ and CMT+)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1858299099608752597

The frequency increase is more than the node (18%) gains lmao at 12/15W
View attachment 111768

Big question... ARL-U has HT?
If not... damn Intel is speedrunning to end the U tier.

 

[Hulk]

I went through the hassle of testing the storage performance of my Raptor Lake system 14900K unleashed vs 7950x3D vs U9 285K.

Conclusion: 14900K@5,8Ghz>7950x3D>>>> U9 285K.

The test was done with 2x900P 280GB in Raid0 as well as a P5800x 400GB using CrystalDiskMark 8.0.4 on Windows 11 Pro 24H2 with virtualization on as well as the core isolation enabled.

The drives were connected if possible to the CPU Lanes using a U.2 adapter card or a m.2 to slim SAS with a redriver (switches were left default). Cable Length is 50cm.

• Sequential throughput is mostly the same across all platforms.
• Biggest Difference in the Q1T1 RND4K
  • 14900K:
    • > 450MB/s Read // 396MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 310MB/s Read // 295MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)
  • 7950x:
    • > 360MB/s Read // 285MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 250MB/s Read // 276MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)
  • U9 285K:
    • > 180MB/s Read // 120MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 165MB/s Read // 76MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)

Funny result, the IO die on Intel is a shame, even AMD can realize the Optane advantage. Only the U285 had worse load times in all respects.

AMD has somehow managed to craft a lower latency chiplet architecture that has latency so good that you won't be feeling the difference even on Optane.

SAD!

Do you have a 285K rig? If so can you run our Handbrake benchmark?

 

[DavidC1]

Big question... ARL-U has HT?
If not... damn Intel is speedrunning to end the U tier.

Very likely. Lion Cove doesn't have HT at all. ARL-U uses Redwood Cove core.

The things exist50 says is amusing. He's basically completely discrediting Intel's claim that MoP on Lunarlake is to save cost, because ultimately a worst product will cancel out any lower costs.

There is some merit to this. My laptop with Kabylake-Y and LPDDR3 memory doesn't go below 0.6W. On Lunarlake I saw it low as 0.2W. Now, MoP isn't enough, you have to optimize for it. But in Lunarlake it does. Lunarlake's MoP is offering anywhere from 10-15% battery life increase by itself.

So Intel was focusing too much on margins that led them to this mess today, and because of that mess and resulting low revenue they are focusing on margins even more.

 

[511]

I went through the hassle of testing the storage performance of my Raptor Lake system 14900K unleashed vs 7950x3D vs U9 285K.

Conclusion: 14900K@5,8Ghz>7950x3D>>>> U9 285K.

The test was done with 2x900P 280GB in Raid0 as well as a P5800x 400GB using CrystalDiskMark 8.0.4 on Windows 11 Pro 24H2 with virtualization on as well as the core isolation enabled.

The drives were connected if possible to the CPU Lanes using a U.2 adapter card or a m.2 to slim SAS with a redriver (switches were left default). Cable Length is 50cm.

• Sequential throughput is mostly the same across all platforms.
• Biggest Difference in the Q1T1 RND4K
  • 14900K:
    • > 450MB/s Read // 396MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 310MB/s Read // 295MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)
  • 7950x:
    • > 360MB/s Read // 285MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 250MB/s Read // 276MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)
  • U9 285K:
    • > 180MB/s Read // 120MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 165MB/s Read // 76MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)

Funny result, the IO die on Intel is a shame, even AMD can realize the Optane advantage. Only the U285 had worse load times in all respects.

AMD has somehow managed to craft a lower latency chiplet architecture that has latency so good that you won't be feeling the difference even on Optane.

SAD!

Also Intel has accidentally crafted 13/14th gen that is giving everyone trouble in area like these it's 10th -> 11th gen fiasco all over again 🤣

 

[511]

Very likely. Lion Cove doesn't have HT at all. ARL-U uses Redwood Cove core.

The things exist50 says is amusing. He's basically completely discrediting Intel's claim that MoP on Lunarlake is to save cost, because ultimately a worst product will cancel out any lower costs.

If it was Intel's Fab they would have saved the cost

There is some merit to this. My laptop with Kabylake-Y and LPDDR3 memory doesn't go below 0.6W. On Lunarlake I saw it low as 0.2W. Now, MoP isn't enough, you have to optimize for it. But in Lunarlake it does. Lunarlake's MoP is offering anywhere from 10-15% battery life increase by itself.

So Intel was focusing too much on margins that led them to this mess today, and because of that mess and resulting low revenue they are focusing on margins even more.

As for this they specifically said they optimised the PHY for low power and it is showing PTL is going to regress how much depends on whether PMICs are used or not cause MOP ks not coming

 

[majord]

ARL-U uses Redwood Cove core.

Why is this?

 

[SteinFG]

Why is this?

Because it's a meteor lake update, and because they want mass-market chips to be manufactured on their fabs (Redwood cove is intel 4 / intel 3 nm core)

 

[majord]

thanks. Sorry i'm a bit behind on the full notebook stack , Seems strange to use the Arrowlike nomenclature without LNC/ . So these are sort of budget, mass-market chips? are there no lion cove /Skymont based higher core count U parts? I'm just trying to visualise what the halo parts are in various TDP classes. Obviously Luna lake there for very low core count, low power, then it seems like a performance gap between that and the LNC/SKY based H / HX parts?

 

[Kocicak]

Conclusion: 14900K@5,8Ghz>7950x3D>>>> U9 285K.

• Sequential throughput is mostly the same across all platforms.
• Biggest Difference in the Q1T1 RND4K
  • 14900K:
    • > 450MB/s Read // 396MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 310MB/s Read // 295MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)
  • 7950x:
    • > 360MB/s Read // 285MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 250MB/s Read // 276MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)
  • U9 285K:
    • > 180MB/s Read // 120MB/s Write (P5800x)
    • > 165MB/s Read // 76MB/s Write (2x900P SW Raid0)

Interesting results, do you have the complete result screenshots? Would anything change, if you used a "leashed" 14900K?

 

[coercitiv]

thanks. Sorry i'm a bit behind on the full notebook stack , Seems strange to use the Arrowlike nomenclature without LNC/ . So these are sort of budget, mass-market chips? are there no lion cove /Skymont based higher core count U parts? I'm just trying to visualise what the halo parts are in various TDP classes. Obviously Luna lake there for very low core count, low power, then it seems like a performance gap between that and the LNC/SKY based H / HX parts?

The halo part for the U class is Lunar Lake. It might struggle against ARL-U @ 28W in "Cinebench", but should be superior in all aspects that really matter, except cost ofc.

 

[SteinFG]

Seems strange to use the Arrowlike nomenclature without LNC

Intel is being shady. It is an small upgrade over Meteor lake, cause ARL-U chips have higher boost clock, but that's pretty much it

So these are sort of budget, mass-market chips?

Yeah, 2P+8E for mainstream.

are there no lion cove /Skymont based higher core count U parts?

LNL (lunar lake) is 4P+4E, tdp is configurable from 8 to 30W. It's a halo part in its TDP range.
ARL-H is 6P+8E. most likely 30 to 65W tdp (following MTL-H tdp numbers). It's a halo part in its TDP range.

Both lunar lake and arrow lake-H have new cores (lion cove and skymont). And with such core counts and TDP ranges, there is no need for something in-between.

 

[SteinFG]

The halo part for the U class is Lunar Lake.

The halo part for low-power class is Lunar Lake V series.
Sorry, had to nitpick a bit 😛 though I totally get what you're saying

 

[511]

The halo part for the U class is Lunar Lake. It might struggle against ARL-U @ 28W in "Cinebench", but should be superior in all aspects that really matter, except cost ofc.

ARL-U is way inexpensive compared to LNL that it is hilarious and regarding battery life MTL-U/ARL-U have better battery life than H comparison not good as lnl but very good and for cheap
96mm2 N6 SOC
10mm2 IO
40mm2 CPU on Intel 3
24mm2 GPU Die

 

[coercitiv]

The halo part for low-power class is Lunar Lake V series.
Sorry, had to nitpick a bit 😛 though I totally get what you're saying

I stand by my correct use of "U class" according to certified British classification:

• Mobile low power - U Class
• Mobile performance - H Class
• Desktop low power - T class
• Desktop performance - S class

On a more serious note, while I agree LNL is supposed to be the halo for a "low-power class" mobile chips, I disagree with the idea that "low-power" goes up to 30W and therefore I don't consider U series to be "low-power" CPUs. That's why I used the rather awkward "U class" term.

 

[511]

I guess this is why we see low supply for ARL U9

https://twitter.com/x/status/1858816934583955719

 

[dttprofessor]

ARL-U is way inexpensive compared to LNL that it is hilarious and regarding battery life MTL-U/ARL-U have better battery life than H comparison not good as lnl but very good and for cheap
96mm2 N6 SOC
10mm2 IO
40mm2 CPU on Intel 3
24mm2 GPU Die

It‘s not good compare to 8845,but not bad for U15.

 

[511]

It‘s not good compare to 8845,but not bad for U15.

It is not good as performance comparison but the cost is less

 

[cannedlake240]

It is not good as performance comparison but the cost is less

Doubt it's less expensive than hawk point, TSMC keeps raising prices and theres Foveros overhead as well

 

[511]

Doubt it's less expensive than hawk point, TSMC keeps raising prices and theres Foveros overhead as well

You know that tsmc raised Price on 5/3 nm class node N6 was low utilisation vs 5/3 nm and the only N5 die is 23mm2 which is getting raised which will not affect it much and the price raise is customer dependent we all know for sure who is getting the price raised the most everyone will not get the same increase the highest leak was 10% 🙂

 

[AcrosTinus]

Interesting results, do you have the complete result screenshots? Would anything change, if you used a "leashed" 14900K?

Yeah, I can attach some later.
The Random 4K reads go down by about 15MB/s, so not much change.

 

[AcrosTinus]

Do you have a 285K rig? If so can you run our Handbrake benchmark?

No, it is not my own rig, a friend wanted to build a new machine (he is still on a 6700K,1070Ti) and I convinced him to buy Arrow Lake, what a good friend I am I know. While assembling the machine I ran some benches.

 

[511]

No, it is not my own rig, a friend wanted to build a new machine (he is still on a 6700K,1070Ti) and I convinced him to buy Arrow Lake, what a good friend I am I know. While assembling the machine I ran some benches.

Lol should have at least bought him 265K and put the money in 4090 or saved the money 🤣

 

[igor_kavinski]

No, it is not my own rig, a friend wanted to build a new machine (he is still on a 6700K,1070Ti) and I convinced him to buy Arrow Lake, what a good friend I am I know. While assembling the machine I ran some benches.

No, I fully support you being a GOOD friend because coming from a 6700K, that is INDEED a huge upgrade for him.