Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

Intel Alder Lake - NIntel Wildcat LakeIntel Lunar LakeMediatek D9500
Launch DateQ1-2023Q2-2026 ?Q3-2024Q3-2025
ModelIntel N300?Core Ultra 7 268VDimensity 9500 5G
Dies2221
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6TSMC N3P
CPU8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-coresC1 1+3+4
Threads8688
Max Clock3.8 GHz?5 GHz
L3 Cache6 MB?12 MB
TDP7 WFanless ?17 WFanless
Memory64-bit LPDDR5-480064-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?128-bit LPDDR5X-853364-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size16 GB?32 GB24 GB ?
Bandwidth~ 55 GB/s136 GB/s85.6 GB/s
GPUUHD GraphicsArc 140VG1 Ultra
EU / Xe32 EU2 Xe8 Xe12
Max Clock1.25 GHz2 GHz
NPUNA18 TOPS48 TOPS100 TOPS ?






PPT1.jpg
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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



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DavidC1

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Pretty sure they use 64-bit bus, which with LPDDR is akin to "dual-channel". Wildcat Lake will probably use LPDDR only. So I guess it's fine in that sense.
64-bit is single channel by PC terminology, and especially since we're talking about bandwidth.

If they went 64x1-bit are we going to call it 64-channels?
 
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511

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64-bit is single channel by PC terminology, and especially since we're talking about bandwidth.

If they went 64x1-bit are we going to call it 64-channels?
80 channels with the ECC on DDR5
 
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Wolverine2349

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Given how underwhelming Ryzen 9000 uplift over Ryzen 7000 in all but AVX512 workloads and some server tasks and Linux stuff, is it safe to say Arrow Lake will handily beat Ryzen. 9000.

And is Ryzen 9000 uplift underwhelming because AMD does not know how to do 6 wide decoder properly? They seemed better with a 4 wide decoder and knew how to do it well with excellent branch prediction.
 
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MS_AT

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Given how underwhelming Ryzen 9000 uplift over Ryzen 7000 in all but AVX512 workloads and some server tasks and Linux stuff, is it safe to say Arrow Lake will handily beat Ryzen. 9000.

And is Ryzen 9000 uplift underwhelming because AMD does not know how to do 6 wide decoder properly? They seemed better with a 4 wide decoder and knew how to do it well with excellent branch prediction.
AMD doesn't have 6 wide decoder. Each SMT thread gets a 4 wide decoder. If only 1 T is active it's still 4 wide decoder.
 

Wolverine2349

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AMD doesn't have 6 wide decoder. Each SMT thread gets a 4 wide decoder. If only 1 T is active it's still 4 wide decoder.


Oh ok interesting. I remember all the talk that Zen 5 AMD was finally going to go 6 wide. Why did they not. Maybe that is part of the problem?
 

511

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Given how underwhelming Ryzen 9000 uplift over Ryzen 7000 in all but AVX512 workloads and some server tasks and Linux stuff, is it safe to say Arrow Lake will handily beat Ryzen. 9000.

And is Ryzen 9000 uplift underwhelming because AMD does not know how to do 6 wide decoder properly? They seemed better with a 4 wide decoder and knew how to do it well with excellent branch prediction.
Skymont has 2X Vector Uplift as well so i guess ARL will give Zen 5 a run for it's money in Linux as well vector ports is increased by 33% on LNC and 100% in SKT based on the the ports alone ARL should have decent FP as well
 

Wolverine2349

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Skymont has 2X Vector Uplift as well so i guess ARL will give Zen 5 a run for it's money in Linux as well vector ports is increased by 33% on LNC and 100% in SKT based on the the ports alone ARL should have decent FP as well

Would it beat 7800X3D in most or all games and blow out Zen 5 vanilla in gaming?

And since vanilla Zen 5 is underwhelming improvement in gaming over vanilla Zen 4, I think Zen 5 3D will probably not be much better than 7800X3D Zen 4?
 

exitorious

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Would it beat 7800X3D in most or all games and blow out Zen 5 vanilla in gaming?

And since vanilla Zen 5 is underwhelming improvement in gaming over vanilla Zen 4, I think Zen 5 3D will probably not be much better than 7800X3D Zen 4?
I don't see how Zen 5 3D can really be any better. The current x3d chips were based off the 7000 series and the 9000 series isn't any faster than the 7000 series in games so where would any kind of performance uplift come from?
 

inf64

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I don't see how Zen 5 3D can really be any better. The current x3d chips were based off the 7000 series and the 9000 series isn't any faster than the 7000 series in games so where would any kind of performance uplift come from?
That is not true. 9950X is 8% faster than 7950X:

Couple with improvements that AMD will bring with 9000 series X3D chips (probably higher clocks), I can see 10 to 15% better performance vs 7800X3D with 9800X3D
 
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exitorious

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That is not true. 9950X is 8% faster than 7950X:

Couple with improvements that AMD will bring with 9000 series X3D chips (probably higher clocks), I can see 10 to 15% better performance vs 7800X3D with 9800X3D
Depends on whos review you believe I suppose: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-9950x/18.html
 

H433x0n

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Huge opportunity for Intel. If ARL-S manages +10% 1T and +20% nT they’ll have the general performance lead for this generation.

Unfortunately it’ll probably end up being +5% 1T and +15% 1T and be basically tied against Zen 5 and launch to a flurry of negative reviews and x86 doomer talk.
 
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MS_AT

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Unlikely. LNC has a massive 14% IPC uplift. ARL-S final should have close to ~10% perf uplift. And coupled with 16 skymont E cores, MT should be impressive too. This year, ARL-S top sku should easily match or slightly outperform the top X3D part.
IPC alone at this level will not beat memory latency;) Zen5 is the proof enough;) [Zen4 matched Zen3x3d, with 13% IPC bump, 12% frequency bump if not more] So while ARL-S might top the charts, in games where x3d leads now thanks to bigger cache, it will keep the lead.
 

cebri1

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Jun 13, 2019
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I'll give Intel props if they can get +10% 1T and +20% MT. Maybe even buy the inevitable 2025 refresh. But I will not be holding back from x86 doomer talk.
Zen 6 is next year, or another 22 months? If the latter I will join the doomer club. Unless Lunar Lake+BMG turn to be amazing.
 

gdansk

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Zen 6 is next year, or another 22 months? If the latter I will join the doomer club. Unless Lunar Lake+BMG turn to be amazing.
Lunar Lake has the potential to be installed in compelling portable devices. But I'm skeptical it will beat even M3.

Zen 6 is not 2025.
 
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poke01

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