Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[Hitman928]

Just interpreting Pat's own words. He said they're "all in" with their new stuff. So, if it bonks, they're "all out". Just being logical!

The quotes I've seen have been that he has gone all in on 18a, not the design side products. Obviously what Intel puts on the process themselves is important, but the IFS side is what he's talking about and where they are spending tons of money to bring to market quickly and build out capacity for outside customers.

 

[Geddagod]

Raptor Lake technically had "more cores", but they were E cores. I dont think that had much if anything to do with gaming. Hopefully, though, Intel (and the game developers) will eventually find a way to utilize the E cores. Otherwise, Intel will be in serious trouble if cpu demands in future games with ever more powerful GPUs exceed what 8 big cores can deliver.

Ye, the extra cores were helpful for that extra MT oomph tho. Clocks helped both productivity and gaming.

ARL is their mainstream client. We need to see how and where LNL fits in.

It's TDP is what, 17-30 watts? That's deff mainstream enough, esp considering how popular thin and light laptops are now.

This diagram is missing tape-out.

It's missing a lot of stuff

Could that mean that 3 nm was not as difficult as expected? Could it mean that 3 nm has higher yield than originally expected? Could it mean that the 3 nm foundry is available to use? Could it mean that the 3 nm foundry is underutilized so you don't have to fight other companies for limited space? I could see many ways that the context of that phrase could apply to 3 nm.

TBH I think he is just talking about trees

 

[SiliconFly]

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[SiliconFly]

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[uzzi38]

Just a thought. Intel may not use Core Ultra branding for Arrow Lake parts. Fox example, they may simply refer to ARL i9s like 15900K or 15900H, etc. The Core Ultra series branding might be confined to Low Power Lunar Lake parts alone. Just a guess, but it kinda adds up.

Arrow Lake is getting the Ultra name. Non-Ultra is Raptor Lake (again).

 

[igor_kavinski]

If Intel's stuff is Ultra, what does that make AMD's stuff? Unobtanium?

 

[SiliconFly]

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[Hulk]

Okay, 3 months out from MTL's "launch" and I'm not seeing them in any quantity.

Paper launch?

 

[gdansk]

I don't think so, they're out there.
And have been under $700 even.

 

[Hitman928]

Okay, 3 months out from MTL's "launch" and I'm not seeing them in any quantity.

Paper launch?

RPL-R is still the main volume driver this generation for Intel. MTL is (relatively) low volume.

 

[SiliconFly]

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[Joe NYC]

MTL launch didn't go well for reasons unknown. Still not enough products on shelves.


Worse. Looks like a failed launch. They couldn't hit volume & the reasons aren't known either.

One theory is that Intel just does not have the EUV machines to be able to shift the volume to Intel 4 or better.

Which is why Raptor Lake will likely be the highest volume product well into 2025.

 

[FlameTail]

This chart says it all.

 

[Joe NYC]

View attachment 95889
This chart says it all.

Yup, the volume of MTL can't exceed the capacity. And that capacity (Intel 3/4) will further need to be divided between MTL and the new server chips, in H2 2024

 

[SiliconFly]

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[tamz_msc]

MTL launch didn't go well for reasons unknown. Still not enough products on shelves.


Worse. Looks like a failed launch. They couldn't hit volume & the reasons aren't known either.

Over 200+ configs in EU alone.

Notebooks mit CPU-Familie Intel: Core i5/Core i7/Core i9 Preisvergleich Geizhals EU

Preisvergleich und Bewertungen für Notebooks mit CPU-Familie Intel: Core i5/Core i7/Core i9

geizhals.eu

It's even available in a third world country like mine.

Hardly a paper launch, unlike the competition in the Windows notebook space.

 

[mikk]

I'm not even sure if Raptor Lake or Alder Lake mobile ramped up faster after 3 months. It's always a slow start and then over time more and more devices emerge in the market.

 

[reggie_fils_aime]

I wonder how much performance stagnation is going to affect sales at big box retailers - there's already a handful of open box options for Core 7 non-ultra laptops at my local best buy, and I wasn't even aware they had started to sell those yet. 2P+8E is enough to be considered a 7-class processor from intel, now, and that feels like very weak tea in comparison to a similarly branded AMD laptop.

 

[dullard]

This chart says it all.

Yes, that chart says a lot. But it doesn't say it all. Fab 9, to be used for mass production of Foveros just opened Jan 24, 2024. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-opens-fab-9-new-mexico.html#gs.6yq9e7
Even if they had the wafer capacity (shown in the graph), Intel didn't have the packaging capacity to fully ramp up Meteor Lake.

But now, even the Microsoft Surface laptops have been announced with Meteor Lake chips (including the 165H and 165U which haven't been commonly seen): https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/business

 

[FlameTail]

But now, even the Microsoft Surface laptops have been announced with Meteor Lake chips (including the 165H which hasn't been commonly seen): https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/business

Interesting fact about those Microsoft Surfaces that were announced on March 21st, is that they are exclusively for businesses (although consumers can buy them too, if they really want to).

The consumer versions will be announced at an event in May 20th, and according to reports they will have only ARM versions. No Intel.

 

[SiliconFly]

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[Khato]

It's both amusing and sad that Meteor Lake is being claimed a paper launch/limited capacity when it's been available for purchase since launch. Granted model availability was limited for the first 1-2 months, but so what?

Remind me how many months it was after 'launch' before Phoenix was even reviewed, much less available for purchase? That's a great example of a paper launch.

 

[SiliconFly]

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[SiliconFly]

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[Khato]

But the same applies to MTL laptops too. I see way too many 13th gen laptops still, some 12th gen too, some amd laptops and very few MTL laptops. Not many different models from different vendors available yet for purchase this late in the cycle. Thats tragic.

By that definition every processor launch is a paper launch. Previous generations always linger for years. Nothing has changed here compared to historical norms.

How many different models do you want? Lenovo has refreshed most of their premium consumer lines and is refreshing their Thinkpad line to MTL along the same annual cadence as always. Dell looks to have released their full line up of Precision, Latitude, and XPS with MTL, along with high end Inspiron and some Alienware. HP has released MTL across their Spectre and Envy lineups, doesn't look like they've started their business line deployment yet. Acer, Asus, MSI, Samsung all look to have refreshed their higher tier offerings on MTL. Sorry, but I don't see any lack of model availability here. Unless the complaint is that MTL isn't available in low to mid tier designs? Which is certainly true, but that's just a case of flawed expectations.