Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
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Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

Intel Alder Lake - NIntel Wildcat LakeIntel Lunar LakeMediatek D9500
Launch DateQ1-2023Q2-2026 ?Q3-2024Q3-2025
ModelIntel N300?Core Ultra 7 268VDimensity 9500 5G
Dies2221
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6TSMC N3P
CPU8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-coresC1 1+3+4
Threads8688
Max Clock3.8 GHz?5 GHz
L3 Cache6 MB?12 MB
TDP7 WFanless ?17 WFanless
Memory64-bit LPDDR5-480064-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?128-bit LPDDR5X-853364-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size16 GB?32 GB24 GB ?
Bandwidth~ 55 GB/s136 GB/s85.6 GB/s
GPUUHD GraphicsArc 140VG1 Ultra
EU / Xe32 EU2 Xe8 Xe12
Max Clock1.25 GHz2 GHz
NPUNA18 TOPS48 TOPS100 TOPS ?






PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



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dullard

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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coercitiv said:
So do yourself a favor and save your mental bandwidth for people who engage in honest conversation, disagreement or not.
Click to expand...
We all can participate as long as we follow the principles of zero knowledge proofs:
medium.com

A zero knowledge proof for Where’s Wally

In the Blockchain world, zero knowledge proofs are a hot topic.
medium.com medium.com

You can prove that you know something even without revealing any information as to how you got that information.
 
J

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
16,817
7,258
136
dullard said:
We all can participate as long as we follow the principles of zero knowledge proofs:
medium.com

A zero knowledge proof for Where’s Wally

In the Blockchain world, zero knowledge proofs are a hot topic.
medium.com medium.com

You can prove that you know something even without revealing any information as to how you got that information.
Click to expand...

Blockchain is so last year. It's all about AI now.

Maybe someone should make an AI based crypto?
 
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dullard

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,024
4,649
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jpiniero said:
Blockchain is so last year. It's all about AI now.

Maybe someone should make an AI based crypto?
Click to expand...
The point isn't about crypto. The point is that people with inside knowledge of CPUs can reveal that knowledge without revealing their methods or anything else, if they are careful. And they can prove to us that they have that knowledge--without revealing their sources. But instead we just get into company X is better than Y because I say so arguments.
 
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M

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,299
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Exist50 said:
I can certainly believe this is just trolling, but I know there's at least some substance to his claims, so I can't dismiss them entirely. But also a lot of nonsense too. It's an interesting mix that I haven't seen before.

And you've seen me enough on this forum to know I'm not just BSing myself. Hope I've established a little credibility.
Click to expand...


It's obvious he is trolling us isn't it? To me it was obvious when he accused Raichu of he just repeats whatever he sees on Weibo and then never tried to prove because he couldn't. After some years of experience we have a feeling who is real and who isn't.
 
A

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,885
4,873
136
mikk said:
It's obvious he is trolling us isn't it? To me it was obvious when he accused Raichu of he just repeats whatever he sees on Weibo and then never tried to prove because he couldn't. After some years of experience we have a feeling who is real and who isn't.
Click to expand...
Ypu can still rely on WCCF Tech for more accuracy...

wccftech.com

Intel Meteor Lake "Core Ultra 9" CPUs Expected To Boost Up To 5 GHz, Arc Xe-LPG GPU Up To 2.2 GHz

Intel's upcoming Meteor Lake CPUs will be featuring a brand new iGPU based on the Arc Alchemist Xe-LPG IP.
wccftech.com wccftech.com
 
M

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,299
2,383
136
Abwx said:
Ypu can still rely on WCCF Tech for more accuracy...

wccftech.com

Intel Meteor Lake "Core Ultra 9" CPUs Expected To Boost Up To 5 GHz, Arc Xe-LPG GPU Up To 2.2 GHz

Intel's upcoming Meteor Lake CPUs will be featuring a brand new iGPU based on the Arc Alchemist Xe-LPG IP.
wccftech.com wccftech.com
Click to expand...


That's a bad troll attempt, you can do better. At least try to give the original source from that leak or news, wccftech is just a copy and paste news page relying on others, it's not a leak source unlike Raichu. They can't even get the graphics IP right for Arrow Lake, ARL won't get Battlemage or Celestial graphics. There is another wrong claim in the MTL spec saying MTL tGPU contains up to 192 EUs. It should be known for a while that it tops out at 128 EUs! Try better next time.
 
A

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,885
4,873
136
mikk said:
That's a bad troll attempt, you can do better. At least try to give the original source from that leak or news, wccftech is just a copy and paste news page relying on others, it's not a leak source unlike Raichu. They can't even get the graphics IP right for Arrow Lake, ARL won't get Battlemage or Celestial graphics. There is another wrong claim in the MTL spec saying MTL tGPU contains up to 192 EUs. It should be known for a while that it tops out at 128 EUs! Try better next time.
Click to expand...
They stated their source in the article, wich btw say 128 EUs, dunno why they didnt simply copy the alleged infos accurately :

动态-哔哩哔哩

www.bilibili.com www.bilibili.com
 
A

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,114
136
Darkmont said:
www.igorslab.de

New mounting kits needed? Socket LGA1851 in detail and the exclusive Arrow Lake S PinOut | igor´sLAB

Yesterday I already discussed the performance projection for an Arrow Lake S CPU, today we have the matching base in the form of the LGA1851 socket. Because Raptor Lake for Intel’s LGA 1700 desktop…
www.igorslab.de www.igorslab.de
Click to expand...
Off topic, I wish AMD had with a different socket for AM5 - now that whole line with need that stupid overly thick heatspeader. So, oddly, kudos to Intel.
 
A

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,351
3,160
136
deasd said:
Looks like MTL-S (which is cancelled)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1690363753261584384

View attachment 84333
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saw that about 20 minutes ago. I questioned @dullard on this yesterday. he did answer my question but I can't help but ponder if wccftech's staff browse this forum and make content based on what we discuss. it isn't the first time we've discussed something only to see it show up on their website hours later or a day later.

looks like you need good material to work off of if your blog website is gutter trash to begin with.
 
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S

SiliconFly

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2023
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A/// said:
saw that about 20 minutes ago. I questioned @dullard on this yesterday. he did answer my question but I can't help but ponder if wccftech's staff browse this forum and make content based on what we discuss. it isn't the first time we've discussed something only to see it show up on their website hours later or a day later.

looks like you need good material to work off of if your blog website is gutter trash to begin with.
Click to expand...
WCCFtech is one of the stupidest site I've come across.

In one page, they list Arrow Lake as a 3nm product: (link)

And in another page they list it as a 5nm product: (link)

Also, they think Intel 20A is equivalent to TMSC N5. Looks like the site is run by people with no knowledge or understanding of node/foundry tech. Not a good idea to cite wccftech as a source. It's just gibberish.
 

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Saylick

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
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A/// said:
saw that about 20 minutes ago. I questioned @dullard on this yesterday. he did answer my question but I can't help but ponder if wccftech's staff browse this forum and make content based on what we discuss. it isn't the first time we've discussed something only to see it show up on their website hours later or a day later.

looks like you need good material to work off of if your blog website is gutter trash to begin with.
Click to expand...
SiliconFly said:
WCCFtech is one of the stupidest site I've come across.

In one page, they list Arrow Lake as a 3nm product: (link)

And in another page they list it as a 5nm product: (link)

Also, they think Intel 20A is equivalent to TMSC N5. Looks like the site is run by people with no knowledge or understanding of node/foundry tech. Not a good idea to cite wccftech as a source. It's just gibberish.
Click to expand...
*deep inhale*

WCCFTech is bottom barrel trash. I'm sure they know it, but they simply don't care. To be frank, much of the tech "journalism" market is low quality regurgitation because quantity and first-to-publish trumps all. When the bar is so low, it means you can lower your bar too. People used to laugh at WCCFTech a lot more, but now they actually get invited to press conferences from Intel and the like.

Regarding their sources, they don't have much. If you pay attention, most of their sources are either 1) Twitter, 2) some post on Chinese forum, like bilibili, or 3) pushing marketing material from the big 3. It's hard for them to keep their rumors straight because they literally just rehash whatever is the latest rumor without consideration of what they previously rehashed.

Most of these articles are from Hassan Mujtaba, but they appear to have hired a new hardware author who seems to be responsible for more basic articles, ones without much controversy. Hassan is still the one publishing rumors because I suspect he's simply more active on Twitter and other forums.

Usman Pirzada used to write a lot more, typically ones they call "deep dives" or "exclusives", but they tended to be extremely controversial and pot-stirring in nature, likely partially due to his own desire to be respected (let's be real, this stuff is simply out of his league), but also likely because bait attracts views. Unfortunately (or rather, fortunately), he has stepped back and is now in a Business Development role, but who knows what the heck that implies for a trash website like WCCFTech. All I know is he got a lot of Twitter pushback, one of whom was Andrei from AT, when he posted his articles and likely gave up being an author because he was tired of people calling out his crappy takes.
 
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A

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,351
3,160
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SiliconFly said:
Also, they think Intel 20A is equivalent to TMSC N5. Looks like the site is run by people with no knowledge or understanding of node/foundry tech. Not a good idea to cite wccftech as a source. It's just gibberish.
Click to expand...
No one is citing them. they're only reporting leaks they've found. intel 7 (10nm++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++) is similar to tsmc's 7nm in gate pitch and density but "publications" still flubbed that up, actual publications didn't.

there is some truly confusion regarding arrow lake because there's been so much back and forthr umors about the tech its based on and what or what it doesn't use.
 
A

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,885
4,873
136
A/// said:
source?
Click to expand...

Source is Intel, dunno when it was precisely, but for sure their name was in the notes at the bottom of the slide...

Edit : So you can say what you want but one cant negate that they are some kind of first rate trolls and clickbaiters...
 
A

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,351
3,160
136
Abwx said:
Source is Intel, dunno when it was precisely, but for sure their name was in the notes at the bottom of the slide...
Click to expand...
if you can find it I'd be interested to see. a few years ago they were accused of being paid off by intel but this would seal that opinion in my mind. cheers
 
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