Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[511]

Battery life might be pretty good on Panther Lake. That's about it. Intel shouldn't be charging THAT MUCH just for some extra battery life though.

Cause Intel isn't charging the laptop price it's OEM?
Why do we have Omnibook and XPS AND MSI at different price

 

[OldGamersNeverDie]

The XPS 13 Upgrade is more than just the processor for $450. Processor upgrade is listed at $150.

 

[511]

The XPS 13 Upgrade is more than just the processor for $450. Processor upgrade is listed at $150.


View attachment 137574

the issue is Both MSI and HP are offering 32GB/1TB same as Dell ....

 

[OldGamersNeverDie]

the issue is Both MSI and HP are offering 32GB/1TB same as Dell ....

True. But hasn't dell always charged a lot for the XPS? Their "Premium" laptop with aluminum etc etc. I don't know. XPS also weighs a pound less and is a hair smaller than the HP.

 

[511]

Fair they are overcharging but PTL price will vary by OEM and Model like all Laptops do and Strix Point and Strix Halo have been selling for a while so we are comparing Apple to Oranges.

 

[Josh128]

Battery life might be pretty good on Panther Lake. That's about it. Intel shouldn't be charging THAT MUCH just for some extra battery life though.

Battery life is apparently top shelf, nobody can really deny that. Graphics, under 25W, are the best in the world, its pretty clear from the charts and tests that have been posted here. Single thread perf is apparently the best available in the x86 mobile world, not by a huge amount, but its the best.

So its undeniable it will make for a killer "ultrabook" form factor laptop, price not withstanding. But when you start pricing it the same as a 392 AI Max, you really have to nail down if you are willing to trade a LOT of available plugged in nT CPU speed and GPU speed for a smaller form factor, best 1T perf, and a LOT of extra battery life. Panther Lake is a good release if not overpriced.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Panther Lake is a good release if not overpriced.

It's really niche. All that time and effort for 18a, and all they get out of it is a low-margin part stuck in the 10-25W range.

 

[Fjodor2001]

It's really niche. All that time and effort for 18a, and all they get out of it is a low-margin part stuck in the 10-25W range.

Wasn’t that intended/expected and 18AP and 14A will be for higher clocking CPUs?

 

[Khato]

Here's my summary of the usual anti-Intel arguments thus far.

PTL CES release: Yeah, the graphics are good, but Intel must be hiding horrible CPU performance.

PTL reviews: Fine, the CPU is better than the x86 competition in its power envelope and battery life is great, but it's stupid expensive.

2-3 months from now once new-product pricing dissipates: Sure, PTL is the best option right now, but it's going to be blown away by speculative performance of upcoming product XYZ.

 

[fastandfurious6]

I am not seeing Halo at the same price as Panther Lake.

The Asus Tuf laptop with the 392 is $1800

MSI Prestige with Panther Lake 385h is $1300.

Both are 14 inch, same ram, same SSD. Asus has a higher res screreen (2560x1600) with high framerate, but MSI prestige is OLED. Prestige is also lighter (1.36 kg vs 1.48)

$1800 with 64gb ram 😉 HALO 392 is basically 9900X + RTX4070 in one mobile chip.

Way better/faster product in every regard except battery life, something like 12hours vs PTL's 20hours on web surfing

2-3 months from now once new-product pricing dissipates: Sure, PTL is the best option right now

Nope, it's already beaten by AMD's much older chip and process at same price. Read above

 

[Hulk]

I am not seeing Halo at the same price as Panther Lake.

The Asus Tuf laptop with the 392 is $1800

MSI Prestige with Panther Lake 385h is $1300.

Both are 14 inch, same ram, same SSD. Asus has a higher res screreen (2560x1600) with high framerate, but MSI prestige is OLED. Prestige is also lighter (1.36 kg vs 1.48)

392 is second from top of the Halo stack.

385h is further down the PTL stack. I think only 8 Xe cores?

The higher res. screen + lower CPU model + MSI is more of a value brand than Asus kind of justifies the price difference in my mind as a consumer.

 

[Khato]

Nope, it's already beaten by AMD's much older chip and process at same price. Read above

At what, 2x the power consumption? And you are again confusing CPU/BoM cost with MSRP. Manufacturers are going to bay WAY happier to sell a PTL laptop for a given price than a Strix Halo one.

 

[The Hardcard]

It's really niche. All that time and effort for 18a, and all they get out of it is a low-margin part stuck in the 10-25W range.

Was there time and effort for 18a that can’t be used for upcoming nodes and products?

 

[fastandfurious6]

Battery life is apparently top shelf, nobody can really deny that. Graphics, under 25W, are the best in the world, its pretty clear from the charts and tests that have been posted here. Single thread perf is apparently the best available in the x86 mobile world, not by a huge amount, but its the best.

So its undeniable it will make for a killer "ultrabook" form factor laptop, price not withstanding. But when you start pricing it the same as a 392 AI Max, you really have to nail down if you are willing to trade a LOT of available plugged in nT CPU speed and GPU speed for a smaller form factor, best 1T perf, and a LOT of extra battery life. Panther Lake is a good release if not overpriced.

100% facts, this is the right take

AMD should've released a new Halo with 3D Vcache + 8 cores + full 40CU (=RTX4070) with more laptop deals at ~$1500 total. Lost opportunity

[Halo is better] At what, 2x the power consumption?

PTL GPU wins only below 25W and not by much. Only handheld scenario. For the rest/pricing etc read above, AMD missed a very good opportunity.

 

[Covfefe]

$1800 with 64gb ram 😉 HALO 392 is basically 9900X + RTX4070 in one mobile chip.

Way better/faster product in every regard except battery life, something like 12hours vs PTL's 20hours on web surfing

The $1800 TUF A14 only has 32GB of RAM.

 

[fastandfurious6]

The $1800 TUF A14 only has 32GB of RAM.

~$1400 32gb, ~$1700 64gb

Asus releases new 14-inch gaming laptop with 48 GB VRAM and 165 Hz display

Asus has started selling its first 14-inch gaming laptop backed by AMD's Strix Halo architecture. Available in Europe, China, and Japan, the new gaming laptop can assign up to 48 GB of VRAM to its Radeon 8060S iGPU thanks to its built-in 64 GB of RAM.

www.notebookcheck.net

you can also use all that for GPU Vram up to 48GB for LLMs

unfortunately Halo availability is terrible, only 1 product with 392 and there's no live view of market price

 

[511]

Was there time and effort for 18a that can’t be used for upcoming nodes and products?

18A is going to be used for NVL/DMR/WCL and bunch of other stuff it takes time?

 

[Covfefe]

~$1400 32gb, ~$1700 64gb

Asus releases new 14-inch gaming laptop with 48 GB VRAM and 165 Hz display

Asus has started selling its first 14-inch gaming laptop backed by AMD's Strix Halo architecture. Available in Europe, China, and Japan, the new gaming laptop can assign up to 48 GB of VRAM to its Radeon 8060S iGPU thanks to its built-in 64 GB of RAM.

www.notebookcheck.net

you can also use all that for GPU Vram up to 48GB for LLMs

unfortunately Halo availability is terrible, only 1 product with 392 and there's no live view of market price

Either notebookcheck is misreporting the price, or the laptop is cheaper outside the US. Either way, the 32GB model costs $1800 USD as confirmed by the official product page.

ASUS TUF Gaming A14 (2026) FA401EA - Tech Specs｜Laptops For Gaming｜ASUS USA

ASUS TUF Gaming A14. Portable powerhouse. AMD Ryzen AI Max+ 392 & Radeon 8060S Graphics. Lightweight 3.26lb design with dual SSD slots. Built tough, stays cool.

www.asus.com

 

[OldGamersNeverDie]

The asus website says the 32gb one is $1800.

Also, the halo vs PTL comparison is a little odd. It really looks like Halo costs a lot more and is a higher power chip. PTL is designed fo power efficiency, small and light laptops.

 

[Khato]

PTL GPU wins only below 25W and not by much. Only handheld scenario. For the rest/pricing etc read above, AMD missed a very good opportunity.

PTL GPU winning in any case is an embarrassment for AMD. Strix Halo GPU is twice the size and twice the memory bandwidth. Which is also the reason why the pricing argument is nonsensical. Why exactly do you think that an SoC with twice the die size that requires a platform with twice the memory channels has the same manufacturing costs?

Note that I'm not arguing that current PTL laptop MSRPs are lower than Strix Halo. Same as any new release the current PTL options are overpriced. Remind me how much the cheapest Strix Halo laptop was in the first half of 2025. (Hint, around $2.5k.)

 

[fastandfurious6]

PTL GPU winning in any case is an embarrassment for AMD

AMD's mobile/products/partnerships division is VERY BAD and embarassing and is likely responsible for all the mess/unavailability etc. Not only Halo is scarce but also 9955HX3D, wherever it's briefly available it runs out of stock, it's the #1 winner for high-end mobile.

Total disagree to all the rest you said... basically 90% of Halo is tech from 2022/2023:

1)
Zen 5 mobile: final dev 2023 on TSMC N4P
RDNA 3.5 igpu: arch from 2022... on TSMC N4P(zen5)

PTL CPU: final dev 2025 on 18A
PTL GPU: final dev 2025 on TSMC N3E


2)
All things AMD could do before zen6 but didn't:

- 3D Vcache on Halo (same CCD as normal zen5 except lowpower interconnect)
- Aggressive Halo pricing
- Better Halo availability
- RDNA 4 mobile

 

[511]

AMD's mobile/products/partnerships division is VERY BAD and embarassing and is likely responsible for all the mess/unavailability etc. Not only Halo is scarce but also 9955HX3D, wherever it's briefly available it runs out of stock, it's the #1 winner for high-end mobile.

Total disagree to all the rest you said.

1)
Zen 5 mobile: final dev 2023 on TSMC N4P
RDNA 3.5 igpu: arch from 2022... on TSMC N4P(zen5)

PTL CPU: final dev 2025 on 18A
PTL GPU: final dev 2025 on TSMC N3E


2)
All things AMD could do before zen6 but didn't:

- 3D Vcache on Halo (same CCD as normal zen5 except lowpower interconnect)
- Aggressive Halo pricing
- Better Halo availability
- RDNA 4 mobile

So you mean to say that AMD is stagnant on consumer side also Zen 5 launch was 2024 not 2022

 

[regen1]

Pantherlake and Gorgon Point Lenovo is nearly identical in price:

https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=83RWCTO1WWGB1

https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=83Q6CTO1WWGB1

$36 price difference.

Yeah, also RAM price is affecting lots of things, for eg. Asus Geo-restricting higher amounts of RAM for a Strix Halo equipped model.

Asus geo-restricting top-end 48 GB VRAM SKU for new 14-inch gaming laptop release

Asus has confirmed US pricing for its first 14-inch gaming laptop powered by AMD's Strix Halo architecture. While 48 GB of VRAM will be assignable in Europe, China, and Japan thanks to a 64 GB of RAM variant, Asus will restrict gamers to 32 GB RAM when purchasing the TUF Gaming A14 FA401EA in...

www.notebookcheck.net

The Expertbook is faster in some games than Zenbook Duo despite having LPDDR5-8533 and only X7 358H.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ExpertBook-Ultra-review-One-helluva-debut-for-Intel-Panther-Lake-X7.1209366.0.html

As a laptop, 16 hour WiFi from 1800p OLED and 70Whr battery is also quite good. It's beating the 1080p Ryzen 350 with same WHr by 2 hours.

Yeah, that too 1800p OLED has 120Hz refresh (plus 8533MT/s LPDDR5X) while the Krackan(AI 7 350) one has 1200p IPS with 60Hz (but 5600MT/s DDR5) and other differences aside very good gains for the Panther Lake "Expertbook".

 

[fastandfurious6]

So you mean to say that AMD is stagnant on consumer side also Zen 5 launch was 2024 not 2022

Halo is N4P + tech from 2022/2023 (by 90%, the rest is LP, unified memory etc)

zen5 dev finished 2023.
rdna 3.5 dev finished 2022.
rdna 3 dev likely finished 2021.

PTL + 18A dev finished 2025 and igpu uses latest TSMC N3E.

 

[regen1]

Here is the SPEC FP numbers I grabbed from the video.
View attachment 137566

Adding Geekerwan's result as well

Spoiler: Bibalaptop's SPEC 2017 result

Would like to see some results/tests from others but from these, PTL's cores got significant upgrade for a tick/refresh thing, some from optimized fabric/L3 and some from improvements to the cores.

Panther Lake CPUs are officially alive – and Intel has shared its plan to beat AMD with future CPUs

Panther Lake chips, that’ll follow next-gen Arrow Lake, remain on track for 2025

www.techradar.com

“This is one of our first major steps for Lion Cove which is our CPU here, Skymont E-Core [for Arrow Lake / Lunar Lake], every generation after [Panther Lake onwards] is the same thing, go after IPC, IPC, IPC.”

Supposed quote from Intel at Computex 2024.
There's been some changes/tweaks to roadmaps from then but it(significant IPC gains) likely will hold true for NVL and RZL.