Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[Kocicak]

WHO HE?

 

[A///]

with easter being around the corner, I'm guessing Jesus.

 

[Kocicak]

Jesus? The whole Jesus business seems highly questionable to me...

 

[A///]

Jesus? The whole Jesus business seems highly questionable to me...

Don't follow religion myself, but it's a bizarre concept. Not as bizarre as the tale of a man sized rabbit that leaves eggs for children to find that contain sweets and charms. Bunnies turn into rabbits, which in turn make decent stews and light roasts. That is their purpose.

 

[Kocicak]

a man sized rabbit that leaves eggs for children to find

We do not have those rabbits here, boys and men beat girls and women (whip their asses with braided decorated whips from willow branches) and we get eggs as a reward. It is a very nice custom.

 

[A///]

We do not have those rabbits here, boys and men beat girls and women (whip their asses with braided decorated whips from willow branches) and we get eggs as a reward. Is it a very nice custom.

Ah you are Czech then?

 

[Kocicak]

Yes.

 

[A///]

Yes.

Such a shame to destroy willow new growth for that. I love willow trees, except the one with small fuzzy flowers. I'd plant on here if I knew it wouldn't eventually destroy the water and gas mains.

 

[Kocicak]

I believe there are trees specifically grown for that and the whips are commonly sold, it is not like that all men destroy all willows in the spring.

 

[uzzi38]

So you are guessing.. what credibility do you have ?

I'll happily vouch for Bionic if it makes you feel better.

 

[eek2121]

From what I can tell, MTL's saving grace might be close to RDNA3 iGPU performance (I'll assume 70% as close) and it's neural accelerator that might be fully compatible with the rumored AI features of Windows 12. Power consumption? Let's hope it's no worse than 12th gen mobile.

Well, It is on a far better process than Raptor Lake, so it should definitely consume less power than previous gen.

I hope Intel uses Meteor Lake/Arrow Lake to pivot hard into perf/watt. It would be great for AMD to finally have some genuine competition.

 

[coercitiv]

I hope Intel uses Meteor Lake/Arrow Lake to pivot hard into perf/watt.

Don't spend your hope so easily. Intel will not prioritize perf/watt until they feel comfortable with their performance advantage. The only scenario where we might finally see a shift back to efficiency is some breakthrough like AMD had with v-cache that comes with thermal/power limitations attached. So think 3D chips that offer much better performance but force us back to lower voltages/temps. I doubt MTL will see such type of limitation though.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Do you know if MLID's IPC claims for Meteor Lake are true? He claimed 10-15% IPC improvement, which seems kind of high for a Golden Cove derivative.

The changes are apparently so little even the CPUID doesn't change.

If anything you should ask MLID why he believes 10-15% perf/clock gain is correct. Even in that leaked document it talked about a potential overall performance gain, which will not apply for 5GHz+ desktop level chips and high power laptop chips such as -H. So that's a combination of clock frequency and uarch.

This seems like a minor version of "Zen 4 29% IPC!!!!" to me.

 

[mikk]

I can't wait for some real tests from MTL. As a reminder many people here underestimated Raptor Lake-S and laughed about the ST+MT improvement claims from some people like MLID.

 

[Exist50]

If anything you should ask MLID why he believes 10-15% perf/clock gain is correct

And that's already his revised-downward number. Would I be too optimistic to hope people start ignoring him after yet another completely wrong prediction?

 

[A///]

I believe there are trees specifically grown for that and the whips are commonly sold, it is not like that all men destroy all willows in the spring.

Willows are very fast growing. There's many types but the hybrid willow is the fastest I know of and gains several meters a year. Weeping willow is more common and its new growth each spring is rapid. Perfect enough for making whips.

 

[msj10]

Lunar Lake

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638759662207094786

 

[Exist50]

Lunar Lake

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638759662207094786

This is where the fun begins.

 

[msj10]

another leak from this account
LGA1851 will support MTL/ARL and a 2026 product which I guess is Panther Lake

https://twitter.com/x/status/1636872728371159042

 

[jpiniero]

Guess that means Arrow/Meteor isn't coming out until 2025. Although maybe it's early 2025.

 

[A///]

Incorrect. It looks like Intel is lengthening socket time to 2.5-3 generations. intel isn't gonna sit on their asses until 2025.

 

[witeken]

Intel uses Lunar Lake to pivot hard into perf/watt. It would be great for Apple to finally have some genuine competition.

FTFY

 

[jpiniero]

Incorrect. It looks like Intel is lengthening socket time to 2.5-3 generations. intel isn't gonna sit on their asses until 2025.

What other options do they have? They are going to release Raptor Lake Refresh later this year. Going 15-18 months between releases would be rough but they could always Refresh the Refresh.

 

[mikk]

Maybe 18A is for Beyond given that Meteor Lake and 20A+N3 in the same chart was misleading. External and Lunar is one the left, 18A and beyond on the right. Meteor Lake and Intel 4 on the left, Arrow Lake and external N3 on the right, additionally 20A in the middle. There is some paddern.

 

[A///]

What other options do they have? They are going to release Raptor Lake Refresh later this year. Going 15-18 months between releases would be rough but they could always Refresh the Refresh.

You're placing too much emphasis on rumors being true and then parlaying that speculation into real timelines.