Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[DavidC1]

Are you saying Lunar Lake Skymont is 7% faster than Apple M3 P core??? Which also directly implies that Lunar Lake Lion Cove will be even more faster than Apple M3 P core? Claim sounds a bit excessive I feel.

No, I'm saying that about Arctic Wolf.

30% on top of that...

Explanations of the Clustered Decode scheme: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/intel-mont-thread.2610727/page-10

 

[DavidC1]

!It literally claims that LionCove got an 8x larger prediction block!

Don't read into it too much. It's increasing a subsection of it, not the entire BPU. It would be a waste because of diminishing returns. 8x would require radically better branch predictor algorithms.

Think of why the gain is relatively low at 14%. We know why it's only 16% for Zen 5, because they cut resources on few parts. We don't know the details for Lion Cove.

The MLID leak that the gain is small for ARL sounds similar to the Intel leak that Igorslab and others posted many months ago. Maybe he's just repeating it.

 

[Geddagod]

Intel slide itself says Lunar Lake LNC has 14% uplift. And Arrow Lake LNC has to be more. And this guy funnily claims just 3%. Maybe he had a nerfed ES. Better to ignore fake claims.

He was talking about ST perf, not IPC uplift. I swear, he must have said "ST" like 2 or 3 times in that chat lmao.

 

[FlameTail]

No, I'm saying that about Arctic Wolf.

Wolf?

 

[SiliconFly]

-

 

[poke01]

Wolf?

What, the fact its not didn't end in mont shock you?

 

[SiliconFly]

-

 

[poke01]

Actually, kinda!

Intel ditching code names and shifting to new ones is a bit unusual and indicates a serious change is coming our way. I'm guessing Arctic Wolf is gonna be another major leap!

Arctic Wolf is a killer codename for a CPU core

 

[FlameTail]

So perhaps Arctic Wolf will be the clean-sheet redesign of the P-core, or a grand evolution of the Atom/Mont lineage to supersede the languishing Cove dynasty.

 

[DavidC1]

So perhaps Arctic Wolf will be the clean-sheet redesign of the P-core, or a grand evolution of the Atom/Mont lineage to supersede the languishing Cove dynasty.

Arctic Wolf is the successor to Skymont/Darkmont, so an E core.

By that time though, performance will no longer be a "little" core.

Actually, kinda!

Intel ditching code names and shifting to new ones is a bit unusual and indicates a serious change is coming our way. I'm guessing Arctic Wolf is gonna be another major leap!

Not necessarily.

Remember Goldmont "Plus"?

@poke01 I do like the name. Sounds aggressive.

 

[SiliconFly]

-

 

[DavidC1]

When CPUs went superscalar(that is, more than 1 decode), then the 2-wide improved performance by nearly 2x in many applications. When they went to 3-wide, then the improvement was still significant but more muted.

Above 3-wide it is said to help with peaks. The averages are helped by improving it elsewhere so more can reach higher performance. So going from 3 to 4 requires boosting it elsewhere, 4 to 5 more, and on and on. Core 2 is greater than 50% faster compared to Pentium III, so it has higher utilization on it's 4 decoders than Pentium III on it's 3.

 

[cannedlake240]

Btw it's Q3 already, any news on 18A pdk 1.0?

 

[SiliconFly]

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[ondma]

And one more thing...

This one is from the Intel P core team engineer. Lion Cove version that goes into Lunar Lake is different in several aspects compared to the version that goes into Arrow Lake later this year.

They may not even be close! That >20% uplift is still very much a possibility.

You're dreaming!

 

[Kepler_L2]

So does this mean that you have also received the same info as the OEMs? And that includes all the specs for Arrow Lake Refresh for desktop too, or only Arrow Lake Refresh for laptop?

Because the leak/rumor about 8P+32E was for desktop, not laptop.

Arrow Lake refresh is just for desktop, mobile will get Panther Lake.

 

[mikk]

Looking at the way things are going, the Wolf may take over the Cove.

Won't happen in the foreseeable future. Lion Cove is made for future scalability in mind Intel said, they resolved some roadblocks to make it easier for subsequent P core generations. From this message it's obvious they will build the next P-cores based from a further improved Lion Cove instead of something entirely new like E-core or Royal Core.

 

[Henry swagger]

Looking at the way things are going, the Wolf may take over the Cove.


It is one possibility. But not necessarily the only one.

We know Nova Lake has Arctic Wolf cores & the name of the "other" core is still unknown. In essence, one other possibility is, Arctic Wolf might as well be the P core & we don't know the name of the E core yet!

Another remote possibility is, we may not have 2 different cores anymore. Just Arctic Wolf cores in different configurations (like in Zen).

But one thing has been bugging me for a while and I still can't put my finger on it. It's the same old Rentable Units. They require a significantly modified core with a ton of support for RU. And rumor has it that Nova Lake debuts RU. And considering the timeline, name change, & the missing name of the "other" core, everything fits frighteningly well like a jigsaw puzzle. Is Arctic Wolf actually a RU core? That possibility too exists.

Arctic wolf is the core jim Keller worked on.. 12 wide core maybe 10 int alu 🙂

 

[SiliconFly]

-

 

[Fjodor2001]

Arrow Lake refresh is just for desktop, mobile will get Panther Lake.

The article below says there will be an Arrow Lake Refresh for the H and HX laptop CPUs too.

Clevo's CPU laptop roadmap leaked: Intel Arrow Lake-HX to compete with AMD Fire Range (X3D) SKUs in 2025 - VideoCardz.com

Intel Arrow Lake, Arrow Lake-Refresh, Panther Lake & AMD Fire Range, Strix Halo Clevo reveals what’s in store for Intel and AMD products. Intel and AMD roadmaps have been exposed through Clevo documents, which were published after a security breach. These documents outline the one and two-year...

videocardz.com

 

[cannedlake240]

Won't happen in the foreseeable future. Lion Cove is made for future scalability in mind Intel said, they resolved some roadblocks to make it easier for subsequent P core generations. From this message it's obvious they will build the next P-cores based from a further improved Lion Cove instead of something entirely new like E-core or Royal Core.

Royal core is probably still a thing, just might not be ready for NVL launch timeframe and will arrive in the generation after nvl. LNC, while an improvement over Golden cove, is still behind Z5 and M4 P cores in area, power. Caches for example, LNC has the largest amount of combined core private and LLC among general purpose high performance cores, while being at PPC parity. Royal core or not they could definitely benefit from a "ground up" core

 

[SiliconFly]

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[Geddagod]

Agreed. But ST perf is still a function of IPC. A 14% IPC uplift can't translate to just 3% ST perf even after factoring in all assumed limitations (like some tile penalty, some clock regression, etc). Also, that 14% is LNL. ARL should be higher. ARL with just 3% overall ST perf increase is just plain wrong imho. Looks like he has a bad sample.

A 14% IPC uplift can easily translate over to just 3% ST perf. It would just mean ARL is clocking at the low 5GHz range, rather than the rumored 5.7GHz. And the final version could end up being 5.7GHz, since he even says he has an ES2, but the final ST perf uplift is still likely to be pretty low, as in like 10% perhaps, at best.

Don't forget, the low ST perf leaks have been here for a while, from Igor's leak, and other leakers. The 30% perf uplift pipedream was just MLID.

Looking at the way things are going, the Wolf may take over the Cove.


It is one possibility. But not necessarily the only one.

We know Nova Lake has Arctic Wolf cores & the name of the "other" core is still unknown. In essence, one other possibility is, Arctic Wolf might as well be the P core & we don't know the name of the E core yet!

Another remote possibility is, we may not have 2 different cores anymore. Just Arctic Wolf cores in different configurations (like in Zen).

But one thing has been bugging me for a while and I still can't put my finger on it. It's the same old Rentable Units. They require a significantly modified core with a ton of support for RU. And rumor has it that Nova Lake debuts RU. And considering the timeline, name change, & the missing name of the "other" core, everything fits frighteningly well like a jigsaw puzzle. Is Arctic Wolf actually a RU core? That possibility too exists.

The "other core's" name has been leaked for a while. Panther Cove.

The article below says there will be an Arrow Lake Refresh for the H and HX laptop CPUs too.

Clevo's CPU laptop roadmap leaked: Intel Arrow Lake-HX to compete with AMD Fire Range (X3D) SKUs in 2025 - VideoCardz.com

Intel Arrow Lake, Arrow Lake-Refresh, Panther Lake & AMD Fire Range, Strix Halo Clevo reveals what’s in store for Intel and AMD products. Intel and AMD roadmaps have been exposed through Clevo documents, which were published after a security breach. These documents outline the one and two-year...

videocardz.com

HX has long been just desktop parts in mobile.

Royal core is probably still a thing, just might not be ready for NVL launch timeframe and will arrive in the generation after nvl. LNC, while an improvement over Golden cove, is still behind Z5 and M4 P cores in area, power. Caches for example, LNC has the largest amount of combined core private and LLC among general purpose high performance cores, while being at PPC parity. Royal core or not they could definitely benefit from a "ground up" core

I've always wondered why Intel has always dedicated so much area (and presumably a decent amount of power) towards core private caches (or even cache available to the core in general) compared to the competition.

 

[Fjodor2001]

HX has long been just desktop parts in mobile.

If you mean that it’s close to the desktop parts, then yes I know. But there differences, and it’s still a mobile SKU though.

 

[Geddagod]

If you mean that it’s close to the desktop parts, then yes I know. But there differences, and it’s still a mobile SKU though.

I mean they are literally desktop silicon. There is a possibility ARL-HX could be the desktop CPU tile with the mobile SOC tile and iGPU tile, but I would be pretty surprised if that was the case, I doubt it.
But I feel like this is just being pedantic lol.
I for one, think the rumor that the 8+32 desktop sku for ARL-R being canned, is very believable. And the focus on the NPU being improved on ARL-R also makes sense, I suppose they would try to improve it to the point it can hit the 40 TOPs requirement Microsoft wants?