Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[majord]

Are there any leaks about Arrow lake uArch details at all yet? I mean, more than just "no HT"

 

[Gideon]

Looks to be an interesting handheld:

Chinese company reveals world's first Intel Lunar Lake gaming handheld - VideoCardz.com

First gaming handheld powered by Intel next-gen Lunar Lake and Xe2 Battlemage graphics spotted Battlemage on board. Weibu GP10 is the next-gen gaming handheld announced prematurely by the company. This device has appeared on the official Computex website, where the company claims it will...

videocardz.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

Are there any leaks about Arrow lake uArch details at all yet? I mean, more than just "no HT"

Only this so far: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...akes-discussion-threads.2606448/post-41174193

 

[igor_kavinski]

Chinese company reveals world's first Intel Lunar Lake gaming handheld - VideoCardz.com

First gaming handheld powered by Intel next-gen Lunar Lake and Xe2 Battlemage graphics spotted Battlemage on board. Weibu GP10 is the next-gen gaming handheld announced prematurely by the company. This device has appeared on the official Computex website, where the company claims it will...

videocardz.com

Great. It means Intel is in the PC gaming game for the long haul. Would be stupid to leave these devices orphaned if they stop updating graphics drivers. I hope this shuts up any further rumors of "Intel getting out of GPUs!" from MLID.

 

[LightningZ71]

Given Intel's past history, them releasing a product means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about how long they will provide driver support for them. This is ESPECIALLY true of iGPU drivers, having launched and abandoned multiple products within 18 months or less in multiple lines. Given the source of the product referenced, it wouldn't shock me if they completely omitted any sort of driver support language from the supply contract for the processors/SoCs to get the absolute cheapest possible price.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Hopefully LNL ships in enough volume to make them support it longer.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

Looks to be an interesting handheld:

Chinese company reveals world's first Intel Lunar Lake gaming handheld - VideoCardz.com

First gaming handheld powered by Intel next-gen Lunar Lake and Xe2 Battlemage graphics spotted Battlemage on board. Weibu GP10 is the next-gen gaming handheld announced prematurely by the company. This device has appeared on the official Computex website, where the company claims it will...

videocardz.com

Here's hoping that BMG requires less fiddling to get older games to work.

 

[majord]

Only this so far: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...akes-discussion-threads.2606448/post-41174193

thanks for that, I should say I meant the Lion Cove uArch specificly ,

IF this is a full architecture overhaul why so little information? Not expecting we'd have a full uAarchitecture detials , but is there no rumors or info to gather from the usual sources, or deeper Speculation?

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

Lunar Lake should be a great Handheld PC SoC. If Intel subsidize them, perhaps they might even enter the eyes of Valve for a possible SteamDeck 2.

 

[igor_kavinski]

IF this is a full architecture overhaul why so little information?

We may get more info at Computex.

 

[DavidC1]

thanks for that, I should say I meant the Lion Cove uArch specificly ,

IF this is a full architecture overhaul why so little information? Not expecting we'd have a full uAarchitecture detials , but is there no rumors or info to gather from the usual sources, or deeper Speculation?

I don't know why we need it so early on?

I absolutely despised Intel repeating about Tigerlake three times. Once is enough. Release it and be done with it. Everything else can be left to imagination of the speculators.

 

[SiliconFly]

.

 

[Henry swagger]

Twitter post removed

Skymont needs 25% to reach m2 and golden gove ipc in int operations.. the goal is close if they can reach 4.8ghz 🤔😀


Profanity is not allowed.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[AMDK11]

thanks for that, I should say I meant the Lion Cove uArch specificly ,

IF this is a full architecture overhaul why so little information? Not expecting we'd have a full uAarchitecture detials , but is there no rumors or info to gather from the usual sources, or deeper Speculation?

Here you go.
I know I'm repeating myself, but the only sticking point when it comes to LionCove is this unlabeled graphic diagram from Intel. I described it myself and I think some details already say something. It is always more than the data generally available on the Internet about LionCove.

 

[DavidC1]

Here you go.
I know I'm repeating myself, but the only sticking point when it comes to LionCove is this unlabeled graphic diagram from Intel. I described it myself and I think some details already say something. It is always more than the data generally available on the Internet about LionCove.

Saying FP/ALU portion increased by 100% is misleading. If anything they put FP in separate ports from the ALUs. However the gain is likely small, because they typically aren't utilized full all the time thus sharing ports reduces transistor count thus die and power. Since CPUs have been forever limited by power, it further reduces the impact. Of course analysis is likely redone every generation.

Also specifically about the Lion Cove+ as some calls it for Lunarlake, some were talking about an extra cache level called L0. So that might be the extra block rather than separated L2 blocks.

I think you're also missing something on the uop width portion with the drastic increase to 14, understandable since Intel said nothing about Lion Cove. It would be nice to see a 30% uarch gain to counter rumored 10% clock loss but many reputable leakers and insiders did not seem to be positive in terms of Lion Cove for performance so the typical 20% figure is likely.

So I'd temper the expectations down a bit. But the Zen 5 guys are also prepared to be disappointed with the latest rumored performance gains lower than high level architectural gains. Maybe both are sandbagging, or maybe both will disappoint.

@Henry swagger Gracemont already beats Skylake in Integer, and it would be a disappointment to see only 16-18% gain since Crestmont is already 4-6% faster. In fact to live up to previous gains, Skymont should be 30% on TOP of Crestmont, and that'll get us to roughly Golden Cove, beating it noticeably in Integer and losing significantly in FP.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Skymont should be 30% on TOP of Crestmont, and that'll get us to roughly Golden Cove, beating it noticeably in Integer and losing significantly in FP.

If they manage even 25%, they are gonna be relieved!

 

[Dayman1225]

Intel confirms Core Ultra 200V “Lunar Lake” is on track for Q3 2024 launch, Arrow Lake update at Computex - VideoCardz​

Intel claims 1.4x perf over Snapdragon Elite X (SDEX) in Stable Diffusion, 1.5x iGPU perf over MTL 165u and “faster” core performance than both SDEX and AMD 8840u

Also claims 30% lower package power than 7840u and 20% than SD 8c Gen3 in MS Teams conferencing

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

Only 30% lower against 7840U certainly isn’t that impressive. Expected much more given it's a specialized part. But at least it's shaping up to be a good enough.

Only 50% faster than MTL-U7 165U is certainly a bit disappointing compared to the 2x expectations. Specially given it's a 1024 ALU part at >=1.5GHz.

 

[Saylick]

The full slide deck is on Anandtech now: https://www.anandtech.com/show/2139...d-of-computex-transformative-power-efficiency

 

[Philste]

These slides are an official presentation for today btw, Article went up on Computerbase right now 8pm german time. There is some more slides with exact device configurations.

 

[Joe NYC]

The full slide deck is on Anandtech now: https://www.anandtech.com/show/2139...d-of-computex-transformative-power-efficiency

20-30% lower power consumption vs. Snapdragon Elite and Phoenix for CPU purpose built for power consumption.

Well, it's not bad, but I was expecting bigger differences.

 

[Philste]

20-30% lower power consumption vs. Snapdragon Elite and Phoenix for CPU purpose built for power consumption.

It's not snapdragon elite, it's 8cx gen 3. However everything WIFI involved (browsing-Teams) is currently MTLs weak side. So 30% better than competition at an low power state isn't bad.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

20-30% lower power consumption vs. Snapdragon Elite and Phoenix for CPU purpose built for power consumption.

Well, it's not bad, but I was expecting bigger differences.

Especially given that Phoenix is relatively dodgy in low-power envelopes. Its iGPU part anyway.

 

[adroc_thurston]

"faster".
Well, ugh, that's a metric I guess!

 

[Philste]

"faster".
Well, ugh, that's a metric I guess!

+/- 10% margin as well, lol.