Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.





Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[coercitiv]

Others aren't very intuitive to use.

If you really cared just about efficiency and memory usage, you would have used Ollama, like a true command prompt warrior. The UI and improved design in LM Studio have a time cost attached, and that time cost is partially offset by using a fast development method.

Sounds to me like you're preaching, but you're not practicing.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Sounds to me like you're preaching, but you're not practicing.

I don't have time to go exploring looking for better options than LM Studio. My being forced to use LM Studio doesn't change the fact that native applications offer the best user experience and there would be a lot more of them on Mac Silicon if it were properly opened up to Linux. Could even thrive as a decent Steam machine.

Mac users are blissfully unaware or maybe deluding themselves that being stuck with MacOS is best for them when in reality, their choices are being limited by a huge corporation and somehow they don't feel angry about it.

 

[MS_AT]

If you really cared just about efficiency and memory usage, you would have used Ollama, like a true command prompt warrior.

llama.cpp which Ollama is based on, why additional bloat? Especially in light of Ollama having hard time attributing where it comes from But yes, sorry for the off-top

 

[poke01]

I don't have time to go exploring looking for better options than LM Studio. My being forced to use LM Studio doesn't change the fact that native applications offer the best user experience and there would be a lot more of them on Mac Silicon if it were properly opened up to Linux. Could even thrive as a decent Steam machine.

Mac users are blissfully unaware or maybe deluding themselves that being stuck with MacOS is best for them when in reality, their choices are being limited by a huge corporation and somehow they don't feel angry about it.

You don’t even see the irony in what you wrote. No one’s stuck to macOS, there are people in this very thread who use all operating systems.

No one’s stuck or delusional, you yourself make these assumptions and presume it to be true. You bring your opinions on others and say it as fact.

 

[Doug S]

I don't have time to go exploring looking for better options than LM Studio. My being forced to use LM Studio doesn't change the fact that native applications offer the best user experience and there would be a lot more of them on Mac Silicon if it were properly opened up to Linux. Could even thrive as a decent Steam machine.

Mac users are blissfully unaware or maybe deluding themselves that being stuck with MacOS is best for them when in reality, their choices are being limited by a huge corporation and somehow they don't feel angry about it.

Native booting Linux is the least useful of the possible solutions. If you do that you cut yourself off from all the macOS applications, and would have to continually boot between environments. The only people who would truly appreciate that solution are the people who bought a Mac for its raw performance not because it was a "Mac". I doubt that's a significant market, and would be a highly fickle one since it would abandon Apple the moment someone else takes the performance crown.

What's wrong with running it in a VM? That sort of thing is pretty seamless these days, the average person would hardly notice they were running that app inside a VM.

Another better solution would be to port Linux's userspace to run on top of macOS, like Microsoft did with WSL. Not sure that's really worth the effort given how easy it is to spin up a VM, but it is another alternative.

I remember when Apple announced Apple Silicon Macs there were a lot of people claiming how it was going to crater their market because so many people dual boot Windows. Turns out that was never a big market, because it is a real pain in the ass to work that way.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

I don't have time to go exploring looking for better options than LM Studio. My being forced to use LM Studio doesn't change the fact that native applications offer the best user experience and there would be a lot more of them on Mac Silicon if it were properly opened up to Linux. Could even thrive as a decent Steam machine.

The choice isn't between a native app vs a React Native app. The choice is between a React Native app and no app.

 

[poke01]

What's wrong with running it in a VM?

Native is faster

 

[dullard]

What great Intel client CPU information we have going in this thread!

 

[igor_kavinski]

What's wrong with running it in a VM?

Massive context switching between guest OS user space and host OS kernel space for I/O which makes 4K random I/O particularly slow.

 

[igor_kavinski]

What great Intel client CPU information we have going in this thread!

Thread currently in a lull while Intel is working hard not to mess up Panther Lake

 

[Doug S]

Native is faster

Unless it is really pushing the GPU like a game or CAD that's not really the case anymore.

 

[moinmoin]

Another better solution would be to port Linux's userspace to run on top of macOS, like Microsoft did with WSL.

That's silly. macOS already has been Unix based since the move to X/NextStep. A Mac user is a brew install away from most Linux CLI applications. That's one major reason why Macs are popular with web developers. WSL was actually Microsoft catching up with that after 15 years.

 

[511]

Unless it is really pushing the GPU like a game or CAD that's not really the case anymore.

Bruh the windows button is laggy as hell it takes a second or 2. It used to be instant on 10-15 years old hardware on Windows 7

 

[Io Magnesso]

That's silly. macOS already has been Unix based since the move to X/NextStep. A Mac user is a brew install away from most Linux CLI applications. That's one major reason why Macs are popular with web developers. WSL was actually Microsoft catching up with that after 15 years.

Homebrew is just a package manager after all
The Linux package doesn't work when you install Homebrew
Only software made in accordance with POSIX is compatible with Linux

 

[eek2121]

Why are we talking about Apple in an Intel thread?

Bruh the windows button is laggy as hell it takes a second or 2. It used to be instant on 10-15 years old hardware on Windows 7

Not on my machine it isn’t. It is instant.

 

[511]

Why are we talking about Apple in an Intel thread?

Yeah Talking about AMD on Intel and Intel on AMD Thread is normal but not Apple

Not on my machine it isn’t. It is instant.

Sometimes it isn't not just it any react native app just sucks

 

[poke01]

Yeah Talking about AMD on Intel and Intel on AMD Thread is normal but not Apple

It was supposed be only about M4's area as a comparison to Lunar's LNC but some couldn't help but bring about DC, an Ampere ARM chip, Linux on Macs, app distribution and now react apps and VMs.

 

[moinmoin]

Homebrew is just a package manager after all
The Linux package doesn't work when you install Homebrew
Only software made in accordance with POSIX is compatible with Linux

What's a "Linux package"? There are plenty different package managers for different Linux distributions. What does it matter whether homebrew is "just" a package manager as well?

Point is you can install and run plenty CLI applications under Linux, Darwin (macOS) and other UNIX based systems. Windows wasn't among them before WSL.

 

[Io Magnesso]

What's a "Linux package"? There are plenty different package managers for different Linux distributions. What does it matter whether homebrew is "just" a package manager as well?

Point is you can install and run plenty CLI applications under Linux, Darwin (macOS) and other UNIX based systems. Windows wasn't among them before WSL.

?
Certainly, the number may be smaller than the Unix OS. but Windows also had multiple CLI applications prior to the launch of WSL
I guess it depends on the human interpretation...

 

[moinmoin]

but Windows also had multiple CLI applications prior to the launch of WSL

Windows commands and powershell are completely incompatible to typical UNIX shells like bash, sh or in current macOS' case zsh.

 

[Io Magnesso]

Windows commands and powershell are completely incompatible to typical UNIX shells like bash, sh or in current macOS' case zsh.

That's right, Windows is not POSIX compliant so it is not compatible with POSIX compliant OS shells I agree with that
But... There is also a way to make Windows POSIX compatible

 

[Io Magnesso]

Windows commands and powershell are completely incompatible to typical UNIX shells like bash, sh or in current macOS' case zsh.

What's a "Linux package"? There are plenty different package managers for different Linux distributions. What does it matter whether homebrew is "just" a package manager as well?

Point is you can install and run plenty CLI applications under Linux, Darwin (macOS) and other UNIX based systems. Windows wasn't among them before WSL.

Your comments so far are correct

That's silly. macOS already has been Unix based since the move to X/NextStep. A Mac user is a brew install away from most Linux CLI applications. That's one major reason why Macs are popular with web developers. WSL was actually Microsoft catching up with that after 15 years.

However, please disagree with this comment.
Sorry for my poor explanation, but...
What I wanted to say is that even if you put homebrew in, you can still do the Unix standard (POSIX) Conformance.
Of course, shell commands and shell scripts can perform the same operation as long as they have the same shell.
However "Linux CLI Application" does not always work on macOS
No, it may be better to say "it depends on the situation whether you can access it rather than Behavior".
If you want to run a Linux (CLI/CUI or GUI) application completely, You have to prepare a separate Linux Kernel in some way
For example, containerization

Homebrew is just a package manager after all
The Linux package doesn't work when you install Homebrew
Only software made in accordance with POSIX is compatible with Linux

I wanted to say the above in this comment.
Sorry for the misunderstanding

It's also unfashionable to talk about it in an Intel CPU thread any more.
If you want to keep talking with me, let's go to the software forum.

 

[moinmoin]

However "Linux CLI Application" does not always work on macOS

There is no such thing as a "Linux CLI Application", Linux is just the kernel. It's all about the so called userland, so the chosen shell environment and installed applications therein. Typical Linux and BSD distributions, UNIX systems and macOS are all pretty close by default or can easily be made close by installing commonly used applications which again is easily done with package managers. Not so with Windows.

If you want to keep talking with me, let's go to the software forum.

I'm honestly am not really interested in further pursuing this particular topic. I just think it's important to correct misleading statements wherever they are made.