Intel has $55.9B record year, ships 46M tablets

[Idontcare]

Can anyone from those that insist that Contra Revenue had no affect against AMD to sell Mullins for Windows Tablets can provide a possible reason as to why we haven’t seen any AMD Windows Tablets when Mullins is faster than BayTrail at the same TDP.



And please provide a reason other than just say that AMD is unable to sell a good product like Mullins. I would really like you guys to explain why we had Windows tablets with older AMD APUs but since Contra Revenue started there are ZERO AMD Windows Tablets with newer much much more capable hardware.

You are asking the wrong people. You need to ask AMD. If there is a shred of truth to the conspiracy you are arguing then surely AMD would have absolutely no problem sharing their thoughts in support of such.

 

[Abwx]

You are asking the wrong people. You need to ask AMD. If there is a shred of truth to the conspiracy you are arguing then surely AMD would have absolutely no problem sharing their thoughts in support of such.

AMD already pointed that they cant compete against a chip that is offered wrapped in 20$ bills.

 

[AtenRa]

You are asking the wrong people. You need to ask AMD. If there is a shred of truth to the conspiracy you are arguing then surely AMD would have absolutely no problem sharing their thoughts in support of such.

First of all, im not talking about any conspiracy, Contra Revenue was created to enable Intel to compete and gain market share in ARM dominated Tablet market. All im saying is that Contra Revenue also affected negatively AMDs Cat products competing for Windows Tablets as an aftermath. Im not saying it was intentional from Intel, although im sure they knew it would hurt AMDs Mobile products.

As for AMD, they already have said they would like to enter a 250M Tablet market but they cannot compete when the competition (Intel) sell at that low prices. Remember, AMD doesnt compete against ARM in the Tablet market, they only compete in x86 Windows Tablet Market. And Contra Revenue doesnt make a discrimination between Android and Windows Devices. OEMs and ODMs using the same BayTrail SoCs with Contra Revenue for both Android AND Windows Tablets.

And one last thing to support my case, Windows market share in Tablets has increased in 2014 over the previous year. 100% of Windows tablets are made with Intel APUs in 2014 when previously AMD had at least some percentage (i dont know the number but there were AMD Windows Tablets in retail). From 2014 onwards AMD has ZERO presence in Windows Tablet market at the time they had a very competitive(Faster performance both in CPU and especially in iGPU at the same TDP) product.

So, anyone that believes Contra Revenue didnt affect AMDs cat APUs to compete in Windows Tablet market feel free to present your case.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I don't think they'll be broken up, but Feds (more likely the EU) could force a compulsory FRAND license of x86 ISA. Then Intel can kiss their monopoly margins good bye.

We keep hearing its about the license. But hardly anyone if any actually wish to compete in x86. Its not like there isnt any other companies with x86 licenses. They just choose not to lose countless billions. The market simply seems too small for competition. Just imagine 5-6 AMDs. All with red numbers and going nowhere.

 

[ShintaiDK]

First of all, im not talking about any conspiracy, Contra Revenue was created to enable Intel to compete and gain market share in ARM dominated Tablet market. All im saying is that Contra Revenue also affected negatively AMDs Cat products competing for Windows Tablets as an aftermath. Im not saying it was intentional from Intel, although im sure they knew it would hurt AMDs Mobile products.

As for AMD, they already have said they would like to enter a 250M Tablet market but they cannot compete when the competition (Intel) sell at that low prices. Remember, AMD doesnt compete against ARM in the Tablet market, they only compete in x86 Windows Tablet Market. And Contra Revenue doesnt make a discrimination between Android and Windows Devices. OEMs and ODMs using the same BayTrail SoCs with Contra Revenue for both Android AND Windows Tablets.

And one last thing to support my case, Windows market share in Tablets has increased in 2014 over the previous year. 100% of Windows tablets are made with Intel APUs in 2014 when previously AMD had at least some percentage (i dont know the number but there were AMD Windows Tablets in retail). From 2014 onwards AMD has ZERO presence in Windows Tablet market at the time they had a very competitive(Faster performance both in CPU and especially in iGPU at the same TDP) product.

So, anyone that believes Contra Revenue didnt affect AMDs cat APUs to compete in Windows Tablet market feel free to present your case.

AMD says many things. That just doesnt mean their products is good enough. They also want server share, laptop share etc. Something you keep ignoring.

 

[AtenRa]

AMD says many things. That just doesnt mean their products is good enough. They also want server share, laptop share etc. Something you keep ignoring.

Unlike Server and Desktop/Notebook the Tablet APU product is very competitive against Intels BayTrail at the same TDP.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/...tecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview/3

So what is your excuse for AMDs zero Windows tablet market share in 2014 ?? So far you and others are saying AMD products sucks. Now that the product is faster than the competition, AMD would be able to raise its market share. Instead they lost what ever market share they had.
Could you explain why ??

 

[ShintaiDK]

Unlike Server and Desktop/Notebook the Tablet APU product is very competitive against Intels BayTrail at the same TDP.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/...tecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview/3

So what is your excuse for AMDs zero Windows tablet market share in 2014 ?? So far you and others are saying AMD products sucks. Now that the product is faster than the competition, AMD would be able to raise its market share. Instead they lost what ever market share they had.
Could you explain why ??

The Micro 6700T is over twice the TDP and no mention of cost.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Puma/AMD-A10-Series%20A10%20Micro-6700T.html

And from your link:

the device wasn’t instrumented for power testing, nor was there enough time to run any battery life tests on it, so the usefulness of these numbers is limited.

How surprising!

 

[NTMBK]

Regardless of how good Mullins had been, it never had a chance. Intel is in full on start up cash-burn mode in the tablet market, eating massive losses in order to buy market share. AMD just don't have the deep pockets to compete with that strategy- they needed their product to turn a profit, not produce negative revenue. Minor performance improvements in dubiously controlled benchmarks weren't going to change that.

If contra-revenue is genuinely winding down in 2015, perhaps Nolan will have a chance to actually make it into a couple of tablets. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[mrmt]

If contra-revenue is genuinely winding down in 2015, perhaps Nolan will have a chance to actually make it into a couple of tablets. We'll have to wait and see.

How competitive in terms of costs is AMD platform against ARM platforms? Intel is taking active steps to reduce this handicap, AMD as far as we know isn't, so when contra-revenue stops in the future what we'll have in place is a sizable BoM advantage for Intel when compared to AMD. Nollan will become another AMD vapourware.

 

[Abwx]

Intel is in full on start up cash-burn mode in the tablet market, eating massive losses in order to buy market share.

To buy market share means that you re either buying another firm that has a sizeable position in said market, or eventualy that you re selling at cost price, but certainly not that you re giving for free the equivalent of 21 millions tablets, assuming 200$/tablet, that s not buying market share, that s rather flooding a market to keep on competitors selling any products.

At normal prices 46 millions such chips would be worth 1.2bn, that s the amount of revenues that they would had shared with their competitors in a sane competition, what will happen to this marketshare once there s no more contra revenues.?.
It will sunk back to nothing unless Intel, and this is their plan, release a competitive product, given the Core M fiasco chances are that their next iteration will also be contra revenued to death...

The Micro 6700T is over twice the TDP and no mention of cost.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Puma/AMD-A10-Series%20A10%20Micro-6700T.html

And from your link:


How surprising!

It s not like we have not numbers, why not check what is available..?.

• SoC – AMD A10 Micro-6700T quad core APU @ 1.2 to 2.2 GHz. with Integrated AMD Radeon R6 Graphics
• System Memory – 4GB DDR3L-1333
• Storage – 64GB SSD + micro SD card slot up to 128GB
• Display – 10.1″ touchscreen display, 1920×1200, 16:10 aspect ratio
• Video Output – Micro HDMI 1.4a
• Connectivity – 802.11a/b/g/n/ac/MIMO Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 4.0 LE, NFC
• Camera – 2MP rear and front webcams
• USB – 1x micro USB 2.0
• Battery – 31Wh battery good for 6 to 8 hours usage.
• Dimensions – 264.1 x 182.2 x 10.3 mm
• Weight – 579 grams

Read more: http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/10...icro-​​6700t-mullins-processor/#ixzz3PGHPbiUV
​

 

[NTMBK]

The Micro 6700T is over twice the TDP and no mention of cost.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Puma/AMD-A10-Series A10 Micro-6700T.html

Intel and AMD TDPs are laughably incomparable. We need proper measurements of power consumption and battery life under controlled circumstances in order to make a comparison, and we aren't going to get that because Mullins hasn't turned up in any products.

 

[NTMBK]

How competitive in terms of costs is AMD platform against ARM platforms? Intel is taking active steps to reduce this handicap, AMD as far as we know isn't, so when contra-revenue stops in the future what we'll have in place is a sizable BoM advantage for Intel when compared to AMD. Nollan will become another AMD vapourware.

Oh I sincerely doubt that we would ever see a Nolan tablet running Android. That is what Amur (the ARM SoC) is intended for. Intel are the only ones crazy enough to try and force Android onto x86.

And I literally have no idea what the BoM difference will be like, so I can't comment

 

[ninaholic37]

It s not like we have not numbers, why not check what is available..?.

Quote:

• SoC – AMD A10 Micro-6700T quad core APU @ 1.2 to 2.2 GHz. with Integrated AMD Radeon R6 Graphics
• System Memory – 4GB DDR3L-1333
• Storage – 64GB SSD + micro SD card slot up to 128GB
• Display – 10.1″ touchscreen display, 1920×1200, 16:10 aspect ratio
• Video Output – Micro HDMI 1.4a
• Connectivity – 802.11a/b/g/n/ac/MIMO Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 4.0 LE, NFC
• Camera – 2MP rear and front webcams
• USB – 1x micro USB 2.0
• Battery – 31Wh battery good for 6 to 8 hours usage.
• Dimensions – 264.1 x 182.2 x 10.3 mm
• Weight – 579 grams

Read more: http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/10/...#ixzz3PGHPbiUV

Is this "BungBungame Photon2" available for purchase? Looks interesting.

 

[mrmt]

Oh I sincerely doubt that we would ever see a Nolan tablet running Android. That is what Amur (the ARM SoC) is intended for. Intel are the only ones crazy enough to try and force Android onto x86.

And I literally have no idea what the BoM difference will be like, so I can't comment

I wouldn't have such high expectations for AMD's ARM "me too" SoC. Plus the BoM handicap will impact both android and windows.

 

[Abwx]

Is this "BungBungame Photon2" available for purchase? Looks interesting.

Only available in Japan apparently, and since it s not subsided its price looks to be in the 420-450$ range, prices in this country are generaly high but even at 350$ it could hardly compete with all the subsided baytrails if it was sold in other high income countries, Japan is a tech aware consumers market, hence the possibility to sell such items there.

 

[NTMBK]

I wouldn't have such high expectations for AMD's ARM "me too" SoC.

Eh, I expect it to do roughly as well as the Tegra chips have done... which is to say, not very. It has a niche where an OEM can make an ARM Android tablet and an x86 Windows tablet with the same design, which I guess is a small plus point for it. Obviously there's no modem tech at all, so competing with the likes of Qualcomm is out of the question. I just hope that AMD didn't spend too much money on it- if most of the design costs were already spent building Nolan and Amur's additional design cost wasn't that much (swapping out Puma cores for off the shelf A57s) then it might make its money back.

Anyway, getting pretty off topic here.

 

[ninaholic37]

Only available in Japan apparently, and since it s not subsided its price looks to be in the 420-450$ range, prices in this country are generaly high but even at 350$ it could hardly compete with all the subsided baytrails if it was sold in other high income countries, Japan is a tech aware consumers market, hence the possibility to sell such items there.

Ahh... over here things like the Asus T100TA and Acer Switch 10 are around $400, and only have 2GB RAM... seem like an A10 Mullins idea like this could have given Bay Trail-T a run for it's money.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Only available in Japan apparently, and since it s not subsided its price looks to be in the 420-450$ range, prices in this country are generaly high but even at 350$ it could hardly compete with all the subsided baytrails if it was sold in other high income countries, Japan is a tech aware consumers market, hence the possibility to sell such items there.

550$ it seems.

http://liliputing.com/2014/10/bungb...the-first-with-amd-a10-mullins-processor.html

Thats Core M prices.

And at 1.3lbs its not exactly tablet light.

 

[NTMBK]

And at 1.3lbs its not exactly tablet light.

The Bay Trail version of the Dell Venue 11 Pro weighs 1.7lbs: http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/dell-venue-11-pro/pd

And the Core M version weighs 1.6lbs: http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/dell-venue-11-pro-7000-7140/pd

In all fairness the Transformer T100 weighs 1.2lbs: http://www.asus.com/uk/Notebooks_Ultrabooks/ASUS_Transformer_Book_T100TA/specifications/

To me it seems like it's right in the usual ballpark for a 10" Windows tablet.

 

[mrmt]

Eh, I expect it to do roughly as well as the Tegra chips have done... which is to say, not very. It has a niche where an OEM can make an ARM Android tablet and an x86 Windows tablet with the same design, which I guess is a small plus point for it.

With Intel also offering Android and Windows on the same design, plus modem technology? I don't think it will be a plus point at all. Both products are smelling DOA on the consumer market. The only question remaining is whether K12 or Zen will have any meaningful market to explore, that is the remaining nail in the proverbial coffin.

 

[Lonyo]

Only available in Japan apparently, and since it s not subsided its price looks to be in the 420-450$ range, prices in this country are generaly high but even at 350$ it could hardly compete with all the subsided baytrails if it was sold in other high income countries, Japan is a tech aware consumers market, hence the possibility to sell such items there.

The main "subsidy" for tablets has nothing to do with Intel and is actually a Microsoft subsidy called giving away Windows, which is worth as much if not more than Intel's subsidies.
But it only applies to tablets with screens <9", so AMD's 10" tablet doesn't benefit.
Hence why there are so many small Windows tablets which are so cheap.

 

[Enigmoid]

Someone mentioned Quanta's temash tablet as an example of intel's contra-revenue killing possible sales.

Lets be clear here. This is not a case of contra revenue killing sales. This is a case of that tablet being equipped with a CPU and igp so slow that BT would smash it out of the water.

1 Ghz dual core + 225 mhz igp? The CPU is dog slow and the igp isn't really better than Bobcat or BT. Why would a consumer choose this thing?

http://liliputing.com/2013/06/quant...rototype-powered-by-amd-temash-cpu-video.html

Mobile Geeks got a chance to check out Quanta&#8217;s reference design, and reports the tablet has an 11.6 inch, 1920 x 1080 pixel touchscreen display with wide viewing angles, front and rear cameras, up to 128GB of solid state storage, a decent range of ports, and Windows 8 software.

Models with lower resolution, 1366 x 768 pixel displays may also be available for as little as $300, while 1080p versions will probably cost a little more.

This is a high end device with a dog slow CPU.

As far as design wins this is how it works.

Quanta doesn&#8217;t sell devices under its own brand name, but it&#8217;s one of the biggest manufacturers of notebooks and other devices sold by big name companies. The prototype tablet on display at the Computex trade show could be a sign of things to come if anyone contracts with Quanta to slap another name on the tablet and sell it.

Nobody wanted it. Its that simple. There is no conspiracy. It was simply overpriced and $300 for a 1 ghz dual core bobcat is not worth it.

 

[AtenRa]

The Micro 6700T is over twice the TDP and no mention of cost.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Puma/AMD-A10-Series A10 Micro-6700T.html

Intel BayTrail TDP is close to 4 to 4.2W, SDP is 2W for the ATOM Z3770. So no A10-6700T TDP is not twice more.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Intel BayTrail TDP is close to 4 to 4.2W, SDP is 2W for the ATOM Z3770. So no A10-6700T TDP is not twice more.

What's the actual power consumption? That's the only thing that I care about.

Perhaps a comparison of Bay Trail-M and Beema would be helpful if somebody can find one?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Intel BayTrail TDP is close to 4 to 4.2W, SDP is 2W for the ATOM Z3770. So no A10-6700T TDP is not twice more.

And this is measured where?