Intel has $55.9B record year, ships 46M tablets

[tential]

Yes

I can't even imagine a person NOT following that practice as a successful business. If you can make a profit, and it's legal, and you IGNORE it, your shareholders will find you and put your head on a platter.
If R0H1T was running Intel right now and hadn't shown marketshare growth due to ignoring contra-revenue, stockholders would have fired him.

Business isn't some moral debate, it's about turning a profit.

The fact that some recent businesses use "morals" as a way to lure customers in doesn't change this underlying concept that a business is run for the benefit of its shareholders.

Not so that the CEO can feel holier than everyone else on the planet.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I can't even imagine a person NOT following that practice as a successful business. If you can make a profit, and it's legal, and you IGNORE it, your shareholders will find you and put your head on a platter.
If R0H1T was running Intel right now and hadn't shown marketshare growth due to ignoring contra-revenue, stockholders would have fired him.

Business isn't some moral debate, it's about turning a profit.

The fact that some recent businesses use "morals" as a way to lure customers in doesn't change this underlying concept that a business is run for the benefit of its shareholders.

Not so that the CEO can feel holier than everyone else on the planet.

This poster gets it...:thumbsup:

 

[jpiniero]

Come to think of it, I've never heard of anyone selling a product at negative revenue. This isn't just like a normal subsidy.

 

[III-V]

Come to think of it, I've never heard of anyone selling a product at negative revenue. This isn't just like a normal subsidy.

It happened before anti-trust laws were a thing. Late 1800s/early 1900s.

 

[xLegenday]

Some rumors say Apple will use some intel chip on the next iphone, I wonder if they have to sell at loss to win the deal.. that would be pretty expensive

 

[NTMBK]

I can't even imagine a person NOT following that practice as a successful business. If you can make a profit, and it's legal, and you IGNORE it, your shareholders will find you and put your head on a platter.
If R0H1T was running Intel right now and hadn't shown marketshare growth due to ignoring contra-revenue, stockholders would have fired him.

Business isn't some moral debate, it's about turning a profit.

The fact that some recent businesses use "morals" as a way to lure customers in doesn't change this underlying concept that a business is run for the benefit of its shareholders.

Not so that the CEO can feel holier than everyone else on the planet.

Yup. Business isn't about being nice, it's about winning.

 

[AtenRa]

Nonsense. Are you saying the BOM for Mullins is equivalent to Qualcomm or any of the big competitors? Source needed.

AMD's inability to break into this market has nothing to do with Intel. It has everything to do with not having a competitive offering at a competitive price. Why are you not angry at Qualcomm for offering SOCs for so cheap?

AMD Mullins is not competing against ARM but Intels ATOM x86 windows Tablets. With a single Memory Channel the BOM and the price of the SoC itself (28nm vs 22nm FF) is lower than ATOM.

And YES, Intel Contra Revenue completely destroyed any chance AMD Mullins would have for a Win 8.1 Tablet.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Without the contrarevenue there wouldnt really be x86 tablets. AMD never had a chance to begin with. Not to mention the higher powerdraw.

 

[Abwx]

And YES, Intel Contra Revenue completely destroyed any chance AMD Mullins would have for a Win 8.1 Tablet.

Not only in tablets but also fanless netbooks, Digitimes said that a big chunk of the subsided BTs were used for such products, the same site is actualy saying that Intel will extend the contra revenues to 12.5" screens devices, it seems that the upcoming cherry trail will also be subsided, hence why AMD will release Carrizo, it will compete with i3/i5 in the very segment where Intel makes the money they are dumping around their uncompetitive offerings.

 

[Abwx]

Without the contrarevenue there wouldnt really be x86 tablets. AMD never had a chance to begin with. Not to mention the higher powerdraw.

Rather than using forged numbers i prefer official figures, what is the power usage.?.Do you have a number that contradict the one i posted.?.

Certainly that if Intel didnt subsided thoses chips there wouldnt have been 46 millions shipped by whatever brands, the number would had been noticeably lower, something like 30 millions given that the subsided BTs where also used in netbooks, out of thoses 30 millions AMD would had secured roughly 30% given that they have the best chip for the usage, that s about 300 millions revenues and 100 millions gross margin, enough to spare themselves the 700 people lay off they did recently.

With this despicable practice Intel is pushing them right to bankruptcy as they cant amortize past RD and invest in new iterations even their product is competitive and superior to Intel s , that s indeed what motivated thoses contra revenues wich, and i rest my case in this point, have AMD as first target as aknowledged by all brands recent financial publications, to summarize only AMD was impacted, the proof is in the pudding...

 

[ShintaiDK]

Right, so AMD would have shipped 30 million more CUus. 50% increase in their total shipped. If it wasnt some issue that certainly wasnt AMDs fault. And couldnt be related to their products at all.

Do you even believe this utter nonesense yourself?

 

[Arachnotronic]

With this despicable practice Intel is pushing them right to bankruptcy as they cant amortize past RD and invest in new iterations even their product is competitive and superior to Intel s , that s indeed what motivated thoses contra revenues wich, and i rest my case in this point, have AMD as first target as aknowledged by all brands recent financial publications, to summarize only AMD was impacted, the proof is in the pudding...

If Intel wanted to just keep AMD out of the tablet market, such extensive contra revenue would not have been needed. A slight discount to undercut AMD probably would have done the job.

No, the contra revenue scheme literally has nothing to do with AMD.

 

[Abwx]

If Intel wanted to just keep AMD out of the tablet market, such extensive contra revenue would not have been needed. A slight discount to undercut AMD probably would have done the job.

No, the contra revenue scheme literally has nothing to do with AMD.

Out of the tablets but also out of the fanless netbooks, most subsided baytrails ended in Windows such items, AMD devoted their APU to this OS only, a slight disount wouldnt have done it, you re forgeting that AMD has the best chip in this segment, if sold 30$ then a Baytrail at 10$ wouldnt had been attractive for OEMs, this would had induced a 35-40$ delta at retail at equal features, with such a difference the better chip prevail in a majority of cases.

Now if the contra revenue has nothing to do with AMD tell us why their chip, wich is notably better than Baytrail, wasnt used in a single main brand tablet and about in none of the fanless netbbooks if we except a few from HP...

As i already pointed none of the alleged targeted brands other than AMD did suffer in the slightest way, just look at their financials, and compare to AMD that suffered a decline in mobile APUs last quarter due to Intel flooding the market with subsided chips dedicated to this very mobile segment.

Right, so AMD would have shipped 30 million more CUus. 50% increase in their total shipped. If it wasnt some issue that certainly wasnt AMDs fault. And couldnt be related to their products at all.

Do you even believe this utter nonesense yourself?

I said 30% of 30 millions, you should read first before answering randomly.

 

[III-V]

Now if the contra revenue has nothing to do with AMD tell us why their chip, wich is notably better than Baytrail, wasnt used in a single main brand tablet and about in none of the fanless netbbooks if we except a few from HP...

Because it's AMD. They are phenomenally terrible at getting their products adopted by OEMs, even when they have a decent product. In this case, they do not.

 

[Arachnotronic]

They are phenomenally terrible at getting their products adopted by OEMs, even when they have a decent product. In this case, they do not.

I guess that's what happens when you don't have a monster sales force like Intel does.

People seem to not give sales teams the credit they deserve, as if products just sell themselves. The semiconductor business is about far more than just delivering a chip that delivers some CPU/GPU performance numbers in a reference design...

 

[tential]

I guess that's what happens when you don't have a monster sales force like Intel does.

People seem to not give sales teams the credit they deserve, as if products just sell themselves. The semiconductor business is about far more than just delivering a chip that delivers some CPU/GPU performance numbers in a reference design...

That's always been a MASSIVE issue for AMD.
They can produce a chip, good or not, they have 0 idea how to sell it.
I mean point and case the R9 290/x were great GPUs, but their reviews essentially killed them. We may recommend the GPUs, but every forum I visit that isn't as tech oriented, the GTX 780Ti was recommended because R9 290 runs hot and is loud.

Marketing your product is important, and AMD does a substandard job at this EVERY TIME.

 

[AtenRa]

Without the contrarevenue there wouldnt really be x86 tablets. AMD never had a chance to begin with. Not to mention the higher powerdraw.

2013, pre-Contra Revenue Era.
AMD Temash Windows tablet wins from Quanta, Winstron, Giga-Byte and MSI. Also ultrabooks like Samsung ATIV Book 9 Lite etc

2014, Contra Revenue Era.
ZERO AMD Mullins Tablet wins and at the time when Mullins is faster than ATOM BayTrail at the same TDP.

But you are right, AMD never had a chance when Contra Revenue started in early 2014 no matter how good the product really was.

 

[AtenRa]

Because it's AMD. They are phenomenally terrible at getting their products adopted by OEMs, even when they have a decent product. In this case, they do not.

So AMD can sell GPUs to OEMs, they can sell GPUs to Apple, they can sell Desktop APUs to OEMs, they could sell millions of Cat APUs (Bobcat) the last few years but all of a sudden they cannot sell Mullins APUs to OEMs.

yeap, Intel Contra Revenue had nothing to do with it, it is all AMDs inability to sell Cat APUs.

 

[Arachnotronic]

2013, pre-Contra Revenue Era.
AMD Temash Windows tablet wins from Quanta, Winstron, Giga-Byte and MSI. Also ultrabooks like Samsung ATIV Book 9 Lite etc

2014, Contra Revenue Era.
ZERO AMD Mullins Tablet wins and at the time when Mullins is faster than ATOM BayTrail at the same TDP.

But you are right, AMD never had a chance when Contra Revenue started in early 2014 no matter how good the product really was.

The Ativ Book with Kabini was very poorly reviewed and utterly panned for lousy performance. It was replaced with a Haswell version. Temash saw very limited traction and the devices it was in were bulky and frankly poor.

Also, please substantiate that Mullins had better perf/watt than Bay Trail.

 

[ShintaiDK]

2013, pre-Contra Revenue Era.
AMD Temash Windows tablet wins from Quanta, Winstron, Giga-Byte and MSI. Also ultrabooks like Samsung ATIV Book 9 Lite etc

2014, Contra Revenue Era.
ZERO AMD Mullins Tablet wins and at the time when Mullins is faster than ATOM BayTrail at the same TDP.

But you are right, AMD never had a chance when Contra Revenue started in early 2014 no matter how good the product really was.

How many of those Temash tablets got into reality? 0? The MSI one for example didnt. And considering you even have to link a Samsung netbook shows how big a lack the adoption was from the start. If you lose 0 of 0 you lost 0.

Even without contra revenue the OEMs didnt touch them. And again, there is no contra revenue on non tablet parts.

 

[AtenRa]

The Ativ Book with Kabini was very poorly reviewed and utterly panned for lousy performance. It was replaced with a Haswell version. Temash saw very limited traction and the devices it was in were bulky and frankly poor.

Temash A4-1400 was not a good product for ultra-thin devices. But there were some companies ready to create Tablets and thin notebooks. They changed their minds when they heard about Intels Contra Revenue.

Also, please substantiate that Mullins had better perf/watt than Bay Trail.

I said Mullins is faster than BayTrail at the same TDP, I havent mentioned anything about perf/watt.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I said Mullins is faster than BayTrail at the same TDP, I havent mentioned anything about perf/watt.

So, TDP != power consumption in your mind? In that case, why would an OEM care about the meaningless "performance/TDP" metric, when only performance/watt is what impacts battery life and temperature?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Temash A4-1400 was not a good product for ultra-thin devices. But there were some companies ready to create Tablets and thin notebooks. They changed their minds when they heard about Intels Contra Revenue.

I assume you got some actual facts to back up your claim. Because there is a funny tendency to tapdance around the subject that AMDs products just wasnt good enough.

What was Temash TDP again? Was it 8W and 1Ghz baseclock with a 1400Mhz docked turboclock? Or the single 3.9W 1Ghz dualcore with 225Mhz GPU?

 

[witeken]

2013, pre-Contra Revenue Era.
AMD Temash Windows tablet wins from Quanta, Winstron, Giga-Byte and MSI. Also ultrabooks like Samsung ATIV Book 9 Lite etc

2014, Contra Revenue Era.
ZERO AMD Mullins Tablet wins and at the time when Mullins is faster than ATOM BayTrail at the same TDP.

But you are right, AMD never had a chance when Contra Revenue started in early 2014 no matter how good the product really was.

You could as well have said:

2013: pre-Bay Trail era
2014: Bay Trail era

Contra-revenue has nothing to do with anything. If Intel didn't have contra-revenue and BOM issues, they would have won just as many design wins.

And your claim that AMD is more efficient than 22nm SoCs is simply impossible, and verified by power measurements (single core Cinebench is 0.85W, which is in fact lower than AMD's idle power consumption).

 

[Khato]

2013, pre-Contra Revenue Era.
AMD Temash Windows tablet wins from Quanta, Winstron, Giga-Byte and MSI. Also ultrabooks like Samsung ATIV Book 9 Lite etc

2014, Contra Revenue Era.
ZERO AMD Mullins Tablet wins and at the time when Mullins is faster than ATOM BayTrail at the same TDP.

Out of curiousity, do you know how well those 2013 AMD Temash design wins actually sold? Because if, as I suspect, they were all in the red then those manufacturers have little incentive to try again...