Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[cebri1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1823512787269673082

Granite Rapids 120C - Dual Socket spotted

 

[jpiniero]

Granite Rapids 120C - Dual Socket spotted

Winter IS coming so that would be nice to keep you warm at night.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Winter IS coming so that would be nice to keep you warm at night.

Kudos to them if they need ONLY a 1kW PSU to power that.

 

[dullard]

For those who are interested, Sapphire Rapids Refresh is now launched (workstation CPUs).

Basically 2 to 8 more cores (mostly 2 to 4 more cores), slight boost to frequency, slight boost to TDP. Some prices are up $150, some down ~$200, many prices basically unchanged.

Intel launches Xeon W-2500 & W-3500 "Sapphire Rapids Refresh" CPUs: up to 60 cores and 385W power - VideoCardz.com

Xeon W3500 offers up to 60 cores Intel is announcing its new HEDT/Xeon Workstation series featuring a lot more cores than its mainstream platform. Intel has updated its HEDT and Xeon Workstation segment with the Xeon W-2500 and W-3500 series, codenamed “Sapphire Rapids Refresh.” These new...

videocardz.com

 

[DrMrLordX]

For those who are interested, Sapphire Rapids Refresh is now launched (workstation CPUs).

That's odd. Why release that when they have Emerald Rapids? Are these meant to be cheaper?

 

[dullard]

That's odd. Why release that when they have Emerald Rapids? Are these meant to be cheaper?

Yes, this is Intel's way to give price cuts. Move everything down one price rung, slightly adjust parameters to better match current yields/performance, give it a new number, and keep selling.

For example, the 3465X (28 cores, 75 MB cache, 2.5 GHz base, 4.8 GHz boost) was $2889. Now it is given a new model number. The 3555X (28 cores, 75 MB cache, 2.7 GHz base, 4.8 GHz boost) for $2339. Same exact CPU* for 19% cheaper.


* Note: Yes, they bumped up the base clock by 8% but they also bumped up the base TDP by 8%.

 

[Henry swagger]

Intel confirms Xeon 6 will launch in September - VideoCardz.com

Intel Xeon 6 “Granite Rapids” in September The new Xeon series are to feature up to 128 cores. Intel has confirmed that its next-generation Xeon CPU series will be launched in September. This is the first product featuring the new naming schema adopted for data-center CPUs moving forward. Intel...

videocardz.com

Granite rapids coming early

 

[dullard]

Intel confirms Xeon 6 will launch in September - VideoCardz.com

Intel Xeon 6 “Granite Rapids” in September The new Xeon series are to feature up to 128 cores. Intel has confirmed that its next-generation Xeon CPU series will be launched in September. This is the first product featuring the new naming schema adopted for data-center CPUs moving forward. Intel...

videocardz.com

Granite rapids coming early

I'll play devil's advocate here. The article says Intel will deliver more info during a Sept launch event. It doesn't quite say during Granite Rapid's launch event. Lunar Lake is launching in September, and that quote could technically be true if Intel delivers Granite Rapids info during the Lunar Lake launch.

 

[Henry swagger]

Intel Xeon 6 CPUs Deliver 90% Uplift In AI Versus 5th Gen Xeon, Xeon 6900P "Granite Rapids-AP" Launches In September

Intel shared the first MLPerf performance figures of its Xeon 6 CPUs while confirming that the Xeon 6900P chips will launch in September.

wccftech.com

Great ai performance

 

[igor_kavinski]

Intel Xeon 6 CPUs Deliver 90% Uplift In AI Versus 5th Gen Xeon, Xeon 6900P "Granite Rapids-AP" Launches In September

Intel shared the first MLPerf performance figures of its Xeon 6 CPUs while confirming that the Xeon 6900P chips will launch in September.

wccftech.com

Great ai performance

Great stock price too!

 

[MS_AT]

Intel Xeon 6 CPUs Deliver 90% Uplift In AI Versus 5th Gen Xeon, Xeon 6900P "Granite Rapids-AP" Launches In September

Intel shared the first MLPerf performance figures of its Xeon 6 CPUs while confirming that the Xeon 6900P chips will launch in September.

wccftech.com

Great ai performance

Depending on what do you mean by great. It's good that having twice the number of cores it is able to achieve twice the performance vs Gen5 part [since we don't have other comparison points based on this article] but on the other hand this is expected for a task that in general scales well with number of cores. It would be nice to have detailed data about the platform too to see if the memory bandwidth available to both Gen5 and Gen6 platform was comparable etc.

 

[SiliconFly]

.

 

[igor_kavinski]

A Xeon server that will be a collector's item soon!

Just like Lakefield!

 

[DavidC1]

A Xeon server that will be a collector's item soon!

Just like Lakefield!

Well others are saying Rogue River Forest are still on the roadmap so take that with a grain of salt.

Of course if the company is doing bad enough that they are considering spinning their fabs off contrary to expectations, than anything can be cut, and I mean anything.

 

[DavidC1]

It would be nice to have detailed data about the platform too to see if the memory bandwidth available to both Gen5 and Gen6 platform was comparable etc.

Emerald Rapids is DDR5-5600. Granite Rapids gets the new MCR DDR5 with DDR5-8800 capability. In server applications it needs the extra memory bandwidth to scale with core count increase.

2x will beat Genoa and be not far off from even Turin. The 88 core 350W Granite Rapids is supposed to have 40% improvement at the same power, and if you look at average differences, then that's enough to catch up mostly with Genoa.

 

[OriAr]

More bad news (rumors) coming in...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1829145040628920734

This rumor was debunked ages ago.
It's SRF-AP in Q1 2025, CLF in Q3 (iirc), and then RRF somewhere in 2026/7 timeframe.

 

[DavidC1]

This rumor was debunked ages ago.
It's SRF-AP in Q1 2025, CLF in Q3 (iirc), and then RRF somewhere in 2026/7 timeframe.

You sure about Clear in Q3? Because they didn't say it's lead silicon on 18A and Pantherlake is coming first. It would be very good, but that would mean PTL on even Q2, which doesn't make sense to me. That gives just 9 month lifespan for Lunar/Arrow.

PTL on BTS and CWF maybe October makes more sense.

 

[OriAr]

You sure about Clear in Q3? Because they didn't say it's lead silicon on 18A and Pantherlake is coming first. It would be very good, but that would mean PTL on even Q2, which doesn't make sense to me. That gives just 9 month lifespan for Lunar/Arrow.

PTL on BTS and CWF maybe October makes more sense.

I think CWF might come first, from what I remember it's coming late summer/early fall (Basically exactly 1 year from now).
The compute die is tiny so even if the defect density is on the high side for 18A it should still have decent yields and volume.

 

[Markfw]

The 88 core 350W Granite Rapids is supposed to have 40% improvement at the same power, and if you look at average differences, then that's enough to catch up mostly with Genoa.

Thats sad, considering Turin will be announced at any moment (I actually have one, just no bios, so it won't post yet).

This is not a troll post, I bolded what I find really pitiful, and I did not post it. I also posted what I think Intel should do as a future plan to succeed in the financial thread.

 

[DavidC1]

Thats sad, considering Turin will be announced at any moment (I actually have one, just no bios, so it won't post yet).

The big -AP version with similar core count should be much more competitive with Turin. It won't be #1 but they won't be relegated to mid end like Sappire/Emerald anymore. I'd say 10-20% difference.

 

[OriAr]

Granite Rapids will not be competitive with Turin. At least not in workloads that concern potential DCG clients. Also it's dependent on an advanced node that isn't producing in the same volume as Intel 7. Intel will not be able to produce as much Granite Rapids as they can Sapphire or Emerald Rapids.



Ehhhhh agree to disagree, this is a foundry thread so I'll leave it at that. Just take a look at the availability of Sierra Forest and that should tell you how "good" it is and how capable Intel is of supplying the market (to the extent that the market wants it at all).



Yeah sure. Intel is gonna have to prove that with hard numbers. Anything else is just hype and noise at this point. Their foundry business is not positioned to replace the enormous volume of Skylake-SP/Cascade Lake-SP that they pushed onto the market years ago, and they've even struggled to reach those productions volumes with 10nm/Intel 7 (IceLake-SP, Sapphire Rapids-SP, Emerald Rapids). Now that Intel 7 datacentre product volume is maybe stabilizing, the market has already moved onwards. Nobody in their right mind expects Intel to ramp up volume on 20a/18a products AND to leapfrog Turin or Turin Dense. If it's possible, Intel has to prove it.

5th Gen Intel Xeon Processors Emerald Rapids Resets Servers by Intel

We delve into the 5th Gen Intel Xeon Scalable Emerald Rapids generation and talk both the performance and platform gains around the new chips

www.servethehome.com

Considering that EMR holds up his own on per core perf against Genoa, and simply gets outclassed due having 33% less cores, I'd say GNR, which will have core count parity with Turin and upgraded performance per core, is gonna more than hold its own against Turin, it'll even beat it in a fair amount of use cases. Intel also should have Diamond Rapids ready before Venice comes out as well. Intel 3 is in excellent shape and Intel solved the bottlenecks with advanced packaging that were affecting Meteor Lake, I see no reason why it won't be able to ramp up GNR.

Also, regarding Sierra Forest:

Intel Xeon 6 6700E Sierra Forest Shatters Xeon Expectations

The Intel Xeon 6 "Sierra Forest" is here shattering expectations on what it means to be a Xeon with 144 cores and very low power consumption

www.servethehome.com

SRF seems to hold its own against Bergamo and while it loses in pure performance, it wins big in efficiency, and this is just the start, SRF-AP will come out early next year and should more than hold its own against Turin-D despite the (on paper) disadvantage in per core perf, and one year from now we'll have CWF which will be a huge jump in per core performance on a leading class node (So I bet the core count gets bumped up as well) and will truly simply kick Turin D in the rear and could end up holding its own very well even against Venice-D (And RRF should come out not too far after Venice-D comes out anyway, maybe even before Venice-D).
CWF has a tiny compute die, Intel can ramp it up even if 18A has higher than ideal defect density (And according to what Pat said the other night 18A is in excellent shape, so all the fear mongering about it is simply BS, Intel should have no issues ramping up CWF whatsoever).

 

[DavidC1]

@OriAr Clearwater Forest -SP is 176 cores with 192 cores on die and the -AP version has the same 288 cores as Sierra. Perhaps based on the yield they'll probably "surprise" with 192 core -SP, but that's what we know.

Yea, Clearwater Forest on Int is basically Zen 5C on 18A with Foveros Direct.

 

[jpiniero]

I could see the E Core Xeons going away at least for the time being. The customers who are buying Intel these days are seemingly not interested in E Core Xeons. Plus you almost have to think that Intel is cutting back on 18A capacity to save money.

 

[DavidC1]

I could see the E Core Xeons going away at least for the time being. The customers who are buying Intel these days are seemingly not interested in E Core Xeons. Plus you almost have to think that Intel is cutting back on 18A capacity to save money.

If they are buying the ARM server parts, then they are buying E core Xeons. Which is the reason for them existing in the first place.

IMO if you ask me, they should have had these parts way before. Again a very reactive company.

 

[Markfw]

I could see the E Core Xeons going away at least for the time being. The customers who are buying Intel these days are seemingly not interested in E Core Xeons. Plus you almost have to think that Intel is cutting back on 18A capacity to save money.

I think that it may be due to the lack of any avx-512. Server use that a lot.