Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[Markfw]

Yuuki Ans Delivering the Goods

As reference: ES Sample Genoa
View attachment 86076

Whoever thinks Bergamo will strugle to dominate Sierra Forest is beign too optimistic. Those little cores have Ice Lake IPC at best and no SMT. Look how those fare against Genoa in SPEC 2017

Thats my ES benchmark ! Actually its a QS sample benchmark. Give me credit please !

 

[Glo.]

Thats my ES benchmark ! Actually its a QS sample benchmark. Give me credit please !

I can credit you 1 dollar.

 

[nicalandia]

Thats my ES benchmark ! Actually its a QS sample benchmark. Give me credit please !

Oh Yeah thats your Scores, sorry about that. How does your 96 core does on Cinebench 2024?

 

[Markfw]

Oh Yeah thats your Scores, sorry about that. How does your 96 core does on Cinebench 2024?

First, I don't want to go into AMD to much in an Intel thread, just wanted to be sure they knew it was a QS. The 9654 is linux, and will not run CB24 anyway.

 

[nicalandia]

First, I don't want to go into AMD to much in an Intel thread, just wanted to be sure they knew it was a QS. The 9654 is linux, and will not run CB24 anyway.

Intel EMR appears to be DOA anyways

 

[H433x0n]

Intel EMR appears to be DOA anyways

SPR still seems to be selling decent and this is SPR with +20% 1T perf and 17% better perf/watt.

 

[Joe NYC]

I have a nice little PC in my living room powered by an N100 (4 Gracemont cores, so skylake IPC) and it consumes, full load, less that 21W.

An N200, on Intel4, using Crestmont + MTL iGPU would be the ultimate living room media/streaming PC.

Hasn't the concept of living room streaming / media PC has been dead for about 10 years?

 

[Henry swagger]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1702275511240610168

12% faster than 13900ks 14% faster than 7950x.. impressive performance on the same node 🤨😄🏅

 

[cebri1]

Hasn't the concept of living room streaming / media PC has been dead for about 10 years?

Are you calling me outdated?

So I use it for: emulation; gaming streaming from my main PC using Moonlight,works great; media hub, have a couple of HDDs with a ton of shows and movies; and for 100% legal football / F1 streams. Also planning to use it run scripts related with a couple of home projects, as I can have it running 24/7 and it only consumes 3-5W on idle.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1702275511240610168

12% faster than 13900ks 14% faster than 7950x.. impressive performance on the same node 🤨😄🏅

How?!

 

[Henry swagger]

Are you calling me outdated?

So I use it for: emulation; gaming streaming from my main PC using Moonlight,works great; media hub, have a couple of HDDs with a ton of shows and movies; and for 100% legal football / F1 streams. Also planning to use it run scripts related with a couple of home projects, as I can have it running 24/7 and it only consumes 3-5W on idle.


How?!

Yields must be fantastic thats how

 

[eek2121]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1702275511240610168

12% faster than 13900ks 14% faster than 7950x.. impressive performance on the same node 🤨😄🏅

We won’t talk about power consumption though, nope! 😬🥵

 

[coercitiv]

Hasn't the concept of living room streaming / media PC has been dead for about 10 years?

Au contraire, it has evolved into something close to a personal streaming service. Get with the times!

Open Source Home Theater Software

Kodi is a free media player that is designed to look great on your big screen TV but is just as at home on a small screen.

kodi.tv

Meet your TV concierge.

Enjoy all of your entertainment, no matter where it lives, plus 50,000+ free titles from us.

www.plex.tv

 

[eek2121]

Au contraire, it has evolved into something close to a personal streaming service. Get with the times!

Open Source Home Theater Software

Kodi is a free media player that is designed to look great on your big screen TV but is just as at home on a small screen.

kodi.tv

Meet your TV concierge.

Enjoy all of your entertainment, no matter where it lives, plus 50,000+ free titles from us.

www.plex.tv

Get with the times indeed! Nobody uses Plex anymore, Jellyfin is where it’s at!

 

[JoeRambo]

SPR still seems to be selling decent and this is SPR with +20% 1T perf and 17% better perf/watt.

I think this is "selling" the EMR in the wrong direction. As "peak" performance per socket/watt whatever product SPR was never going to win anything and EMR that is mostly the same won't change anything.

SPRs main weakness is the fact that it was not really performing any good in benchmarks where it should shine -> like DBMS and similar ones.
The reason was simple -> uncore and submemory system was designed by incompetent monkeys who came up with design that had worse of all worlds. Where AMD had 8 core CCD cluster with great cache, these guys managed to create a CPU where compute unit was 1 core and next stop was L3 core of 50ns latency and then memory with hilariously variable but uniformly horrible latency when in non "quadrant" mode. Bad BW, bad latency, no L3 capacity to speak of.
Disaster on silicon if you like, combining worst qualities of chiplet design with those hilariuos ARM "our 96C are backed by industry leading mesh ( find us at nearest cloud ) and 16MB of L3". Resulting in a chip that had no redeeming qualities and despite having like 20-30% more IPC vs IceLake stuff, managed to make no improvement "per core" in quite some of those workloads.

EMR seems to be targetting those exact weaknesses ( compare with doubling down on retarded ways of say add more chiplets to SPR and coming up with even worse chip that pleases marketing with more cores but is useless otherwise):

1) We get sensible two chiplet design
2) We get proper amounts of L3 cache that directly address weak spot. Said L3 cache despite being like 3x larger is actually faster than SPR ( some of it is natural due to (1), but Intel poured effort to make it perform for sure).
3) Memory has nice latency. Again some of it due to memory speeds rising and helped by non-monkey-with-engineer-degree designed mesh, L3 cache, but again Intel is very directly improving their weakest spot. Remember, they HAVE IMC on those chiplets, they should beat AMD that has to go to IOD in efficiency and latency no problem, was not the case before.

So even if process, clocks, architecture are the same, ST perf and performance increases nicely due to not having to hit memory @150ns on each L2 miss resulting in a chip that if priced right will have a niche for itself.

I think best way to sum EMR => it is on servers what Raptor Lake was to Alder Lake on desktop and mobile. Directly addressing weak spots unleashed performance was that depressed by those weak spots. More L2, tighter ring and L3 cache and 5600 DDR5 speeds added disproportional amount of perf. Same is bound to happen with EMR.

 

[deasd]

We won’t talk about power consumption though, nope! 😬🥵

Maybe that's the reason why MT score is lower

Intel Core i9-14900KF becomes the fastest CPU in PassMark single-core ranking - VideoCardz.com

Intel Core i9-14900KF appears in PassMark benchmark PassMark welcomes Intel’s latest desktop CPU in official ranking. Surprisingly, there was no mention of the 14th Gen Core “Raptor Lake Refresh” during the Innovation 2023 event, which primarily focused on Meteor Lake and AI developments...

videocardz.com

When it comes to multi-core performance, the 14900KF falls slightly short, displaying nearly identical performance to the 13900K with only a 0.6% difference. In contrast, it lags behind the 13900KS in performance. While Intel’s Core i9 CPUs dominate the top spots in the single-core CPU Mark rankings, the story is different in the multicore performance category, where AMD Ryzen 9 processors take the lead.

It all looks like everything is the same except RPLrefresh gives more bin to ST workload while MT heavy workload stuck due to process/power limit.

 

[Hitman928]

How?!

The quoted percent increase probably comes from using the Geekbench average for all 13900KS entries, which is lower than the 13900KS stock performance. If you look through the actual Geekbench browser, there are a ton of 13900KS results that match or exceed the 14900K score at the same frequency. Maybe (a big maybe) you get a couple of percent increase on average with the 14900K, but I wouldn't expect anything like a 10+% improvement.

For example, https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/2704627

 

[dullard]

Hasn't the concept of living room streaming / media PC has been dead for about 10 years?

I still use them and bought one last year for my HTPC. My work has hundreds of them. They decided that it is space and energy efficient in our tiny cubicles to use them (and far more reliable and cheaper than laptops).

 

[Abwx]

64C/128T@350W, so basically competition has roughly 50/100% better perf/watt depending of the segment HPC/Cloud, and launched the last month of the year, so they are lagging at least 2 years and a full gen.

Intel Emerald Rapids: Xeon Platinum 8580 bietet 60 Kerne und 300 MB L3-Cache

Screenshots verraten Eckdaten zum Intel Xeon Platinum 8580 (Emerald Rapids), der demnach 60 Kerne und 300 MB L3-Cache besitzt.

www.computerbase.de

 

[Henry swagger]

64C/128T@350W, so basically competition has roughly 50/100% better perf/watt depending of the segment HPC/Cloud, and launched the last month of the year, so they are lagging at least 2 years and a full gen.

Intel Emerald Rapids: Xeon Platinum 8580 bietet 60 Kerne und 300 MB L3-Cache

Screenshots verraten Eckdaten zum Intel Xeon Platinum 8580 (Emerald Rapids), der demnach 60 Kerne und 300 MB L3-Cache besitzt.

www.computerbase.de

And they.ll still more units than them lol

 

[Geddagod]

And they.ll still more units than them lol

margins are prob going to be laughably bad for them to get those sales

 

[Abwx]

And they.ll still more units than them lol

They ll have to give them litteraly for free, because whoever pay good money for this instead of the competing offering will put his business in the road of bankruptcy...

 

[FangBLade]

They ll have to give them litteraly for free, because whoever pay good money for this instead of the competing offering will put his business in the road of bankruptcy...

That's what Intel has been doing for years, and it's the only thing they can do - giving away products for free or at a massive discount, sticking to the logic: it's better to give them to clients for free and keep them with us than to let them switch to the competition.

 

[Abwx]

That's what Intel has been doing for years, and it's the only thing they can do - giving away products for free or at a massive discount, sticking to the logic: it's better to give them to clients for free and keep them with us than to let them switch to the competition.

That s more than obvious, a firm that hold a big chunk of the market, wich doesnt need to pay heftily a pure play foundry, and still doesnt manage to make huge profits is prove that they re practicing some kind of desperate management financiarly speaking...

 

[nicalandia]

SPR still seems to be selling decent and this is SPR with +20% 1T perf and 17% better perf/watt.

Higher 1T means nothing on Server grade products, SPR falls on its face once they hit its Max TDP. Thats why stock Xeon W9 are on par with Zen3 Thread Rippers on general MT workloads, I suspect that due to Higher L3$ and better Topology EMR will be 15% higher at same core count and TDP when compared to SPR. That is progress I suppose, but AMD with Genoa/Genoa-X/Bergamo are just too ahead on Core/Performance/TCO.

 

[H433x0n]

Higher 1T means nothing on Server grade products, SPR falls on its face once they hit its Max TDP. Thats why stock Xeon W9 are on par with Zen3 Thread Rippers on general MT workloads, I suspect that due to Higher L3$ and better Topology EMR will be 15% higher at same core count and TDP when compared to SPR. That is progress I suppose, but AMD with Genoa/Genoa-X/Bergamo are just too ahead on Core/Performance/TCO.

I'm not going to really argue any of your points since I pretty much agree. Looking at the Phoronix benchmarks of SPR performance, if you werre to add an additional 17% it gets pretty close to Epyc 9554 but that's still a far cry from the 96-core 9654.