Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[Abwx]

Apologies for irking you. Just confused if 165W is for an upcoming HEDT CPU...

No irk here but guess that i ll have to make a clarification about what are exactly those 1ms peaks, to summarize if the CPU is on a low power state at say 0.8V then getting to the max frequency at all core at say 1.3V will be seen as a short circuit by the supplying devices.

Said otherwise the CPU equivalent capacitance need to be charged instantly from say 0.8V to 1.3V while frequency (and hence power comsumption) is also increasing at the same time, that will create a very short peak that exceed largely the rated TDP.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Intel's CES presentation is just meh. No performance figures or comparisons. Just sad.

 

[Markfw]

Intel's CES presentation is just meh. No performance figures or comparisons. Just sad.

Well, they can't advertize how much better the competitor is, can they.

 

[IntelUser2000]

They kinda did for the Alderlake-H.

Also Intel marketing guy says "hybrid this generation" is focused on performance, even though battery life will probably improve a bit.

The power figures AMD is showing for Remembrandt are quite impressive. Let's see how actual devices fare though.

We might see more detail from Intel in the next few days. It's usually the case.

 

[insertcarehere]

Anandtech dropped the ball on the coverage, full slide deck from Intel CES is here:

https://www.techpowerup.com/290521/intel-ces-2022-altogether-wonderful-online-event-live-blog

 

[naukkis]

The power figures AMD is showing for Remembrandt are quite impressive. Let's see how actual devices fare though.

100+ system wins for Alderlake-h, 200+ for Rembrandt.....

 

[eek2121]

Anandtech dropped the ball on the coverage, full slide deck from Intel CES is here:

https://www.techpowerup.com/290521/intel-ces-2022-altogether-wonderful-online-event-live-blog

This, check the full slide deck, they do provide some performance comparisons between previous gen and current.

 

[Exist50]

100+ system wins for Alderlake-h, 200+ for Rembrandt.....

H is always pretty limited. U and P probably each match or exceed it.

 

[IntelUser2000]

100+ system wins for Alderlake-h, 200+ for Rembrandt.....

That's just for H. With Tigerlake U they had 150 and with H they had 80. -P and -U is bigger. Just the P/U will end up being in the 300+ range.

Anandtech dropped the ball on the coverage, full slide deck from Intel CES is here:

https://www.techpowerup.com/290521/intel-ces-2022-altogether-wonderful-online-event-live-blog

Anandtech is declining over time.

 

[Hitman928]

This, check the full slide deck, they do provide some performance comparisons between previous gen and current.

Intel looks like they will dominate the 45+ W tier for CPU performance (assuming Intel charts are even relatively accurate). I don't think this was unexpected. I am surprised to see no comparisons at the 15-28W tier though.

 

[Hitman928]

ADL base frequencies at 15W are really low. Wonder what the real world clock will be on these.

 

[naukkis]

Intel looks like they will dominate the 45+ W tier for CPU performance (assuming Intel charts are even relatively accurate). I don't think this was unexpected. I am surprised to see no comparisons at the 15-28W tier though.

AMD pretty much matched Alderlake clocks with Rembrandt, seems that 8c Rembrandt is close match to 14C Alderlake in high power configurations and it probably isn't even contest in low power tiers - Rembrandt offers 8 high performance cores at higher clocks than Alderlakes E-cores.......

 

[dullard]

I am surprised to see no comparisons at the 15-28W tier though.

Mobile H chips systems available Feb 2022
Mobile U and P chips available Q1 2022

CES: Intel Engineers Fastest Mobile Processor Ever with 12th Gen...

Twenty-eight new 12th Gen Intel Core mobile and 22 desktop processors drive powerful gaming and creator-focused laptops and desktops, enterprise-ready systems and IoT applications.

www.intel.com

It is hard to have valid comparisons when the systems aren't yet ready.

 

[Hitman928]

AMD pretty much matched Alderlake clocks with Rembrandt, seems that 8c Rembrandt is close match to 14C Alderlake in high power configurations and it probably isn't even contest in low power tiers - Rembrandt offers 8 high performance cores at higher clocks than Alderlakes E-cores.......

ADL-P doesn't cut down the L3 cache as much as Cezanne does compared to their desktop counterparts. That will increase the IPC lead of ADL over Cezanne a bit so I still expect ADL-P to win the 45W+ market (CPU performance). RMB should still be a competitor for sure though. At ~30W and below though, it is looking like RMB should take the lead, unless those listed base clocks for the ADL U models are being very conservative compared to real world clocks.

 

[eek2121]

AMD pretty much matched Alderlake clocks with Rembrandt, seems that 8c Rembrandt is close match to 14C Alderlake in high power configurations and it probably isn't even contest in low power tiers - Rembrandt offers 8 high performance cores at higher clocks than Alderlakes E-cores.......

Zen 3 cores (especially mobile ones) have lower IPC than Golden Cove cores. the 6 GC cores alone are probably faster than the 8 core Zen 3 parts. However, we don't yet know if there are IPC improvements to Zen 3+, and we don't know where frequencies will land for various workloads. If the AMD chip can maintain much higher frequencies than the Intel chips, AMD may win some benchmarks. Otherwise, Intel may win benchmarks. AMD will likely dominate Intel in power consumption however.

 

[IntelUser2000]

ADL base frequencies at 15W are really low. Wonder what the real world clock will be on these.

It's not Icelake low, and that chip faired decent. 1065G7 had 1.3GHz 15W and 1.5GHz 25W base frequencies. The 9W Alderlake-U is at 1.1GHz. Tigerlake 1165G7 drops to 1.3GHz base at 15W.

 

[Hitman928]

Mobile H chips systems available Feb 2022
Mobile U and P chips available Q1 2022

CES: Intel Engineers Fastest Mobile Processor Ever with 12th Gen...

Twenty-eight new 12th Gen Intel Core mobile and 22 desktop processors drive powerful gaming and creator-focused laptops and desktops, enterprise-ready systems and IoT applications.

www.intel.com

It is hard to have valid comparisons when the systems aren't yet ready.

Feb 2022 and Q1 2022 is not a big difference. You're probably talking 6 weeks at most. There's no way Intel doesn't have a reference laptop they could use for generating some comparison graphs.

 

[naukkis]

ADL-P doesn't cut down the L3 cache as much as Cezanne does compared to their desktop counterparts. That will increase the IPC lead of ADL over Cezanne a bit so I still expect ADL-P to win the 45W+ market (CPU performance). RMB should still be a competitor for sure though. At ~30W and below though, it is looking like RMB should take the lead, unless those listed base clocks for the ADL U models are being very conservative compared to real world clocks.

But in mobile Rembrandt offers 8 performance cores vs 6 in Alderlake. And Rembrandt will have higher boost clocks than desktop chips. It will be though competitor to Alderlake.

 

[dullard]

Feb 2022 and Q1 2022 is not a big difference. You're probably talking 6 weeks at most. There's no way Intel doesn't have a reference laptop they could use for generating some comparison graphs.

Feb 2022 vs Q1 2022 could be 4 to 8 weeks apart. But more importantly, processors available != systems available. System availability was not specified (I assume because that varies by vendor). When you go lower and lower in power, reference laptops have less and less applicability.

 

[IntelUser2000]

AMD pretty much matched Alderlake clocks with Rembrandt, seems that 8c Rembrandt is close match to 14C Alderlake in high power configurations and it probably isn't even contest in low power tiers - Rembrandt offers 8 high performance cores at higher clocks than Alderlakes E-cores.......

We don't have to speculate since the companies tell us.

Intel will win in the H segment and they have performance numbers but not for the U.

AMD will probably do the same in the U segment as they also have performance numbers but not for the H.

 

[Hitman928]

It's not Icelake low, and that chip faired decent. 1065G7 had 1.3GHz 15W and 1.5GHz 25W base frequencies. The 9W Alderlake-U is at 1.1GHz. Tigerlake 1165G7 drops to 1.3GHz base at 15W.

You're right, I was looking at the 9W slide initially by accident. The 15W bases are much higher. Still looks like RMB should be the performance leader at 15W as it is 8 full RMB cores versus 2P and 8E for ADL and the 8E are at 1.3 GHz base. Very lightly threaded (up to 2 cores) performance should go to ADL, but when more cores are loaded, I think RMB will match then pull away in perfromance. Reviews will be interesting.

 

[Exist50]

We don't have to speculate since the companies tell us.

Intel will win in the H segment and they have performance numbers but not for the U.

AMD will probably do the same in the U segment as they also have performance numbers but not for the H.

Gonna be weird though. A lot of AMD U series laptops run at 25W, which is into P SKU territory, a battle that AMD will probably lose. They should look much better at 15W, but they need actual devices with that implementation. Hope we finally get some good AMD T&Ls this time.

 

[IntelUser2000]

but when more cores are loaded, I think RMB will match then pull away in perfromance. Reviews will be interesting.

Either and oversight or they feel 15W is a small market compared to 9W and 28W. Something like a 4+8 15W would have been better.

Based on the number of models, they are probably right but it's a strange omission.

Also I'm curious if they'll get an -M model for 5-7W or that's entirely gone? If the latter is true then really RIP Lakefield.

Gonna be weird though. A lot of AMD U series laptops run at 25W, which is into P SKU territory, a battle that AMD will probably lose. They should look much better at 15W, but they need actual devices with that implementation. Hope we finally get some good AMD T&Ls this time.

Yea, Intel will probably fare much better in the 28W category when with Tigerlake they completely conceded performance-wise.

Considering AMD will embarass them completely in the iGPU portion until Meteorlake it makes you wonder more at the weaknesses of the 15W lineup.

 

[mikk]

Well, they can't advertize how much better the competitor is, can they.

They can.

 

[Hitman928]

Feb 2022 vs Q1 2022 could be 4 to 8 weeks apart. But more importantly, processors available != systems available. System availability was not specified (I assume because that varies by vendor). When you go lower and lower in power, reference laptops have less and less applicability.

Obviously it could be 8 weeks apart, but that would make it first of Feb versus very end of Mar availability, that's very unlikely.

In terms of systems/processors available, I don't think the press release meant the CPUs are available starting Q1.First, it would be weird to announce that they are making the CPUs available to OEMs like this. Second, this quoted sentence wouldn't make any sense.

Built to take on simultaneous everyday workloads, business productivity and even gaming in full high definition (FHD), these 12th Gen Intel Core U- and P-series mobile processors will be available in the first quarter of 2022, including devices designed for both Windows and Chrome operating systems.

I read this as a mistake in the write-up and it should read like the line for the H processors:

Designed for enthusiast gamers, creators and engineering professionals who want to push their laptop performance to the next level, the new 12th Gen Intel Core H-series mobile processors deliver desktop-caliber performance on the go. They will power systems available starting in February 2022.

In other words, the U processors will be in devices which will be available starting Q1.