Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[Arachnotronic]

As I've mentioned before Intel said that Server will be first for 10++ and 7, so it would make sense if they just simply skip Icelake Server after Cascade Lake and go straight to Tigerlake Server.

Nah. 14nm++ server is in 1H 2018, 10nm+ server will be 2019, 10nm++ server will be 2020, 7nm server should be 2021.

 

[jpiniero]

Nah. 14nm++ server is in 1H 2018, 10nm+ server will be 2019, 10nm++ server will be 2020, 7nm server should be 2021.

The Lenovo leak said "Ice Lake Refresh" (ie: Tigerlake) in 2019 and Sapphire Rapids in 2020. That fits with Intel saying 10++ will be server first, not to mention their desire for EMIB.

Unless you think Intel is going to release Icelake client in Q4 2018/Q1 2019 and then not release another client chip until the end of 2020.

 

[Ajay]

On the server side, Intel needs to keep driving things forward for cloud and service provider markets which are growing. I can't see them skipping a year. So I think @Arachnotronic is probably correct. Intel can do IceLake-SP 10nm+ w/EMIB even if TigerLake-SP (10nm++) is server first. That might mean bigger changes for TigerLake-SP than would be expected for a process bump. I have no idea when Intel will clue customers in on more details of it's 10nm product line. With AMD being more competitive, they might even become more tight lipped

 

[jpiniero]

On the server side, Intel needs to keep driving things forward for cloud and service provider markets which are growing. I can't see them skipping a year.

Well, they wouldn't since they are releasing Cascade Lake next year.

 

[Ajay]

Well, they wouldn't since they are releasing Cascade Lake next year.

Eh, misunderstood your post. Wondering myself now, if TL server has been brought in - maybe not a year, but even ~6 mos. Going from CL-SP @14nm++ to TL-SP @ 10nm++ would like spike sales higher, reduce costs an maybe re-animate the traditional enterprise market. Interesting

 

[FanlessTech]

Ice Lake should be true to its name and bring TDP down. Hoping for 20W desktop chips. Pentium and i3 should not exceed 35W.

 

[scannall]

Ice Lake should be true to its name and bring TDP down. Hoping for 20W desktop chips. Pentium and i3 should not exceed 35W.

I was guessing Lava Lake would be more appropiate.

 

[Bouowmx]

The review is about AMD Ryzen 3, but power numbers include Intel Kaby Lake Pentium and Core i3: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11658/the-amd-ryzen-3-1300x-ryzen-3-1200-cpu-review/16

Standard-power Kaby Lake 2-core is already at ~35 W. Although, which Prime95 test is not specified; power consumption is heavily dependent on the test parameters.

Power limit of desktop processors is user-adjustable; don't need to wait for Intel for 20 W.

 

[Jan Olšan]

Pentium does not have FMA or AVX/AVX2, so regardless of the Prime95 version, it will be running SSE* code. Which is the better case for power consumption, on Intel.

 

[Ajay]

@jpiniero - moved to correct thread

I'm not expecting much of an IPC improvement if any, and while I do also think that the ST clock speed shouldn't be too much lower than the 8700K it is possible that it could be enough that the Icelake 8C ends up slower.

Though Icelake was supposed to be a new ground up uarch (still x86-64 IA) or was that just something cranked out of the rumor mills?
If xtor switching speed is a good indicator on eventual relative clocks, the 10nm+ will be closer to Kabylake clock rates than Skylake's.

 

[jpiniero]

Seems more like anything radical performance wise isn't happening until Sapphire Rapids. Power consumption might be another story though.

One thing that would be "nice" would be to add MorphCore; and while MT perf and perf/w would get a nice boost ST does get hurt a little bit if they were to introduce it. There haven't been any rumors they are doing so in Icelake but given Intel's server-first mentality it would make sense and the timing would be more realistic than when there were rumors that Skylake had it.

 

[mohit9206]

Can we expect quad core Pentiums or does intel stick with dual core with hyperthreading.

 

[jpiniero]

Can we expect quad core Pentiums or does intel stick with dual core with hyperthreading.

It's possible. I suspect there's only going to be 4 and 8 core models available on Icelake so they could move the i3 to 4C8T and move the Pentium/Celeron to 4C4T. Clearly they need to do more to differentiate the two so I am not sure. You should not be surprised if they just rebrand dual core Coffee Lake if the two are compatible.

 

[PeterScott]

I would love to see the end of dual cores, so I could get cheaper quad cores, but I suspect they will remain for some time, because really that is still all most people need.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Seems more like anything radical performance wise isn't happening until Sapphire Rapids. Power consumption might be another story though.

One thing that would be "nice" would be to add MorphCore; and while MT perf and perf/w would get a nice boost ST does get hurt a little bit if they were to introduce it. There haven't been any rumors they are doing so in Icelake but given Intel's server-first mentality it would make sense and the timing would be more realistic than when there were rumors that Skylake had it.

I assume that Ice Lake is still a new uarch and presume that Sapphire Rapid will be based in that same uarch? Any radical performance increases must come from somewhere and correct me of I'm wrong, but I don't see Ice Lake being the holy grail - it'll be good, sure, but will it be good enough to majorly increase frequency and IPC whilst remaining energy efficient? Silly questions and I realize improvements can come easily from many more sides and we simply know too little about the new uarch currently.

MorphCore - interesting idea you threw in! AFAIK it's still only a research paper?

 

[IntelUser2000]

Though Icelake was supposed to be a new ground up uarch (still x86-64 IA) or was that just something cranked out of the rumor mills?

Depends on what you mean by "ground up". If by Haswell/Skylake ground up, probably. If by Core 2 style from Netburst probably not. Somebody has made a nice point saying yearly refreshes can't have a true ground up new architecture when CPU architectures take up to 7 years from paper to product.

I assume that Ice Lake is still a new uarch and presume that Sapphire Rapid will be based in that same uarch?

Icelake - Tigerlake - Sapphire Rapid. Tigerlake should be the "Tick" and Sapphire Rapid and Icelake the new one.

Rumors suggest Sapphire Rapid is the bigger change though. Hmm, though its interesting to see how big of a change they can do, or whether it'll bring bigger increases.

If they'll do a big change, I hope to see this realized: http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/tradeshows/IDF/2005/Spring/Day3/FutureCPU/evolution.jpg

We are in the Multi Core Array, we should see Scalar plus many core. There really aren't many directions to go I believe. Huge increases with architectural change is quite dead. If they can somehow get the things in the slide into fruition, maybe they can get much larger than Core chips. Atom = Small core, Core = medium core, what about a Large core Intel? People say Core = Large core, but I believe it stopped few years ago. When you can fit it into a 4.5W TDP its not a large core.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

@IntelUser2000 my only concern with what you said is that, so far, Sapphire Rapid is server and likely HEDT only; where does that leave mainstream...?

 

[nvgpu]

https://twitter.com/TMFChipFool/status/895622827142914048

"Intel originally planned to release an 8-core Cannon Lake-S, but it was cancelled in late 2015 for a 6-core Coffee Lake-S/H."

https://www.fool.com/investing/gene...poration-will-finally-be-upping-its-core.aspx

https://twitter.com/TMFChipFool/status/895667012218834944

"Not confirmed but I strongly believe it will be an 8 core"

Ice Lake and Tiger Lake should have 8 cores 16 threads i7 SKUs.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

https://twitter.com/TMFChipFool/status/895622827142914048

"Intel originally planned to release an 8-core Cannon Lake-S, but it was cancelled in late 2015 for a 6-core Coffee Lake-S/H."

https://www.fool.com/investing/gene...poration-will-finally-be-upping-its-core.aspx

https://twitter.com/TMFChipFool/status/895667012218834944

"Not confirmed but I strongly believe it will be an 8 core"

Ice Lake and Tiger Lake should have 8 cores 16 threads i7 SKUs.

Nice find mate! With the canning of desktop Cannonlake they've moved the 8C to Ice Lake and Tiger Lake, sounds legit.

 

[Ajay]

Nice find mate! With the canning of desktop Cannonlake they've moved the 8C to Ice Lake and Tiger Lake, sounds legit.

Pretty sure Cannonlake was going to have an 8 core variant. In any case, this make total sense both competitively vs AMD and for low end Xeon servers (re-purposed 'S' variants).

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Pretty sure Cannonlake was going to have an 8 core variant. In any case, this make total sense both competitively vs AMD and for low end Xeon servers (re-purposed 'S' variants).

Was my "... sounds legit" coming across as sarcastic (serious question)? If so, it wasn't meant as such. I too am sure they originally planned this but had to move it to the next gen after canceling desktop CNL. Looks like I'll be getting an 8C Tiger Lake-S after the 6C Coffee Lake-S ha ha - because, why not! I do believe mainstream will pause on 8C for a while to come, for a few generations at least.

 

[Ajay]

Was my "... sounds legit" coming across as sarcastic (serious question)? If so, it wasn't meant as such. I too am sure they originally planned this but had to move it to the next gen after canceling desktop CNL. Looks like I'll be getting an 8C Tiger Lake-S after the 6C Coffee Lake-S ha ha - because, why not! I do believe mainstream will pause on 8C for a while to come, for a few generations at least.

Must have been wearing my reading glasses backwards, sorry

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Must have been wearing my reading glasses backwards, sorry

No don't worry about it, you're fine; if anything, it's English not being my native language.

 

[nvgpu]

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/08/11/3-things-intel-needs-to-deliver-with-its-ice-lake.aspx

 

[Bouowmx]

Wait for Ice Lake-S 8-core? 2017 is the year of waiting . I realize that 6 to 8 is a smaller relative jump than 4 to 6, but still.

By some divine intervention, I was wise enough to get into gaming by pimping an used Sandy Bridge computer and getting NVIDIA Pascal in 2016?