Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[igor_kavinski]

That looks like a LOT of heat, and requires substantial outside radiators and pumps.

The Aurora compute board seems to have optical interconnects.

 

[Markfw]

The Aurora compute board seems to have optical interconnects.

No, those are water lines. There is no HSF on the cpu's, so that has to b eit.

 

[ashFTW]

That looks like a LOT of heat, and requires substantial outside radiators and pumps.

Here is the AMD equivalent from the Frontier supercomputer. Both Frontier and Aurora use the Cray‘s EX systems with CoolIT’s direct liquid cooling technology. Aurora blade contains 2CPUs and 6GPUs; Frontier blade on the other hand contains 2 x 1CPU and 4GPUs.

 

[lightisgood]

Aurora might be allocated supplementary budget (from CHIPS Acts?)...

Intel said, "Aurora has >54,000 PVC" in SC21.
But today, what Intel says is "Aurora has >60,000 PVC".

> Aurora is a very large and complex system with over 10,000 compurte nodes...

 

[Exist50]

Aurora might be allocated supplementary budget (from CHIPS Acts?)...

Intel said, "Aurora has >54,000 PVC" in SC21.
But today, what Intel says is "Aurora has >60,000 PVC".

> Aurora is a very large and complex system with over 10,000 compurte nodes...

I doubt CHIPS Act. The funding distribution hasn't even been decided yet.

Maybe compensation for Intel's delays. Those must be some very interesting negotiations.

 

[lightisgood]

Fugaku beats Frontier in HPCG and Graph500.
Fujitsu is proud of Fugaku's real-world performance*.
This is why Aurora might be demanded the overwhelming performance.

(*)

Supercomputer Fugaku retains first place worldwide in HPCG and Graph500 rankings

Supercomputer Fugaku retains first place worldwide in HPCG and Graph500 rankings

www.fujitsu.com

> The HPCG is a performance ranking for computing methods often used for real-world applications

 

[nicalandia]

This is what Sapphire Rapids/Emerald Rapids will have to deal with...

Zen4 Performance and Efficiency

Just look how good That 34C Genoa CPU looks in Performance and Power Efficiency when compared to Intel



32 Core Genoa vs 13900K and Xeon Platinum

"The EPYC 9374F had an average power consumption of 195 Watts and a recorded peak of 275 Watts "

 

[nicalandia]

Its Official. Intel On Demand AKA SDSi

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593749308020445184

 

[DrMrLordX]

You can pay to enable hardware features on a demand basis? I can't see this hardware aging well.

 

[Thunder 57]

You can pay to enable hardware features on a demand basis? I can't see this hardware aging well.

Didn't you get the memo? It's all about subscriptions now!. Whether it be heated seats or CPU features.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Didn't you get the memo? It's all about subscriptions now!. Whether it be heated seats or CPU features.

Heated seats aren't mission-critical though. Plus at least you get those enabled on a month-by-month basis. This mess brings hardware resources online based on load and could change by the millisecond.

 

[Thunder 57]

Heated seats aren't mission-critical though. Plus at least you get those enabled on a month-by-month basis. This mess brings hardware resources online based on load and could change by the millisecond.

I wasn't saying it was right. I think it's terrible. I just wish more people would stand against the subscription as anything that is going on now.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I wasn't saying it was right. I think it's terrible. I just wish more people would stand against the subscription as anything that is going on now.

Well, in this case, it may be that SDSi will hurt Intel more than it helps them.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I hope no one uses SDSi. Why would anyone think it's OK to pay more after paying thousands of dollars for a server? Success at the server level will only lead to introduction of this "feature" to consumer CPUs.

Oh hey, look our CPU will boost to 5 GHz only in games to give you higher FPS for only $15 a month. You get the best of both worlds. Higher battery life when not playing games and best performance when playing games. What's not to like? Only $15!

 

[DrMrLordX]

I hope no one uses SDSi. Why would anyone think it's OK to pay more after paying thousands of dollars for a server?

IBM used to do the same thing (actually they may still do it). They used to call it the "golden wrench". But in their case, you'd pay once to unlock a feature or something that wasn't functioning before.

 

[Hulk]

Didn't you get the memo? It's all about subscriptions now!. Whether it be heated seats or CPU features.

I will fight subscriptions with every fiber of my being.

The reason corporations love this is because once you have customers hooked on monthly fees increasing revenue is as easy as adding ten cents or whatever to the monthly subscription.

It's a slow boil for the customer.

Comcast/Xfinity probably set the standard for this deception.

First, when the US government mandated OTA TV to be digital Comcast took that regulation and twisted it by saying now all TV's in your house, even those not OTA, ie cable must be digital.

Second, they said, "But don't worry, we'll supply for free digital adapter boxes for your TV's!"

This provided Comcast with complete control over every TV in a household AND more importantly when they started charging a rental for these boxes a guaranteed revenue stream. Now I think the boxes are like $8/month to rent. I ditched cable TV long ago so I'm not sure.

Hopefully we'll see Comcast/Xfinity going the way of Blockbuster sooner rather than later.

 

[jpiniero]

I hope no one uses SDSi. Why would anyone think it's OK to pay more after paying thousands of dollars for a server? Success at the server level will only lead to introduction of this "feature" to consumer CPUs.

I assume the original intent was to make Intel's life easier so they didn't have to make specific SKUs for the more esoteric features. But you can see how it could spiral...

I actually don't think it will be subscription based, just a one time thing. Mostly because I think some SKUs will still have some of the features enabled as normal. Like say you get AMX for 'free' if you buy Plat but Gold and Silver you gotta pay extra.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I actually don't think it will be subscription based, just a one time thing.

With our Intel-on-Demand model, customers can scale performance and capacity in response to real-time demand.

That makes it sound like you can disable it after paying if the demand isn't there at the time. Intel isn't going to give money back to the customer for that. There's also a reason why they are giving specific software to monitor usage of unlocked features by sysadmins. This is "Pay As You Go" nightmare for anyone wanting to reduce TCO.

 

[nicalandia]

I can see SDSi work devices that do not have to compete with a different CPU Company for market and mind share. After nearly 3 years of delay and being at a core, build and performance disadvantage I cant see this working well for Intel.

 

[LightningZ71]

This reminds me of "power by the hour" arrangements in commercial aircraft jet engines. Instead of paying the massive cost of a jet engine up front, then having to pay unpredictable service costs, the large engine makers are pushing a new strategy where you make a smaller up front payment, but then have to pay the engine manufacturer per hour of use of the engine. The hourly fee can vary based on total nirmal available engine thrust (this can be changed in tge engine management software to some degree) with higher thrust ratings costing more per hour due to increased engine wear. The engine manufacturer is responsible for all overhaul costs and covering spares and repair costs for non-routine maintenance.

Its a system that works out well for smaller carriers, but does cost them more in the end. Win for both in their books.

 

[Hulk]

This reminds me of "power by the hour" arrangements in commercial aircraft jet engines. Instead of paying the massive cost of a jet engine up front, then having to pay unpredictable service costs, the large engine makers are pushing a new strategy where you make a smaller up front payment, but then have to pay the engine manufacturer per hour of use of the engine. The hourly fee can vary based on total nirmal available engine thrust (this can be changed in tge engine management software to some degree) with higher thrust ratings costing more per hour due to increased engine wear. The engine manufacturer is responsible for all overhaul costs and covering spares and repair costs for non-routine maintenance.

Its a system that works out well for smaller carriers, but does cost them more in the end. Win for both in their books.

This is more of a fine-grained pricing approach rather than pay-as-you go in my opinion as maintenance on aircraft engines is very expensive. With software you buy it and it always is in the same condition as purchased.

 

[igor_kavinski]

With software you buy it and it always is in the same condition as purchased.

They can apply it to software artificially by creating buggy software and then providing fixes and updates on an ongoing subscription basis.

 

[moinmoin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593749308020445184

Fixed her PR text:
"We’re always working to make sure our customers need to pay for what they need to be successful. With our Intel-on-Demand model, customers need to pay to scale performance and capacity in response to real-time demand."

 

[Geddagod]

I think Intel's basically shown us. If you combine this older image:
View attachment 70897
With this:
View attachment 70898

Seems to be a pretty straightforward arrangement. They have two IO dies as end caps, and a variable number of compute dies in the middle. Though assuming the grey tiles represent memory the same way Intel's shown for SPR:
View attachment 70899
...then that means they're putting the memory controllers on the compute tiles. Would certainly be an interesting choice.

I think this new information from Lisa Spelman pretty muc confirms the use of IO tiles:

Within the CPU package, we will decouple core and uncore functions into “compute tiles” and “I/O tiles,” with the I/O tiles being common between P-core and E-core based products, enabling a common I/O subsystem to be used.

 

[Hulk]

They can apply it to software artificially by creating buggy software and then providing fixes and updates on an ongoing subscription basis.

Most expensive software has a trial period of up to a month. If you don't find it works for you then don't buy it, right?