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Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Yea, but if you take the absolute difference, 10 watts, compared to the power consumption of even a midrange gaming laptop gpu (say 100 watts) it is not a big percentage difference in total power consumption. I just think the hysteria of the "power hungry" Tiger Lake is a bit overblown. Now for Rocket Lake, it isnt.
Then the same logic applies for 45W vs 55W, then the same for 55W vs 65W, then the same for 65W vs 75W, and since the total system consumption would always be even higher and higher, the 10W would count even less and less percentage wise. The more you buy, the more you save?

I think that the difference between 35W and 45W is not groundbreaking, but still significant.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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Don't think it ever got any publicity, but Intel did end up releasing an Ice Lake Pentium in Q4 2020. I wonder what the actual cost difference is between it and the Tiger Lake Pentium that was also released in Q4.
Looks like the Pentium gold 7000 series is significantly better than the 6000, especially in the iGPU with both much higher clocks and more EUs. In an interesting segmentation move, the Pentium gold 7000 doesn't show AVX-512 support, but seems to have all the other tiger lake add ons. It doesn't seem like much of a penalty from the i3 line if you don't need 512...
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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She said, we will be ready to start a production of high end products with 3D chiplets by the end of this year.
I don't think Zen4 will be ready to start production late this year. Do you? If not, what's left?

Also' they have apparently redesigned the Zen3 chiplet to allow connections with the cache die. Not a trivial matter.
 
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Det0x

Senior member
Sep 11, 2014
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Sure about that?
Hmm could the B2 stepping be in preparation for this ? :cool:

 

Asterox

Senior member
May 15, 2012
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One question for Intel, where is/when it arrives any shorter meaningful Alder Lake preview?


AMD showed very strong future cards, or what can we get with 3D V-CACHE even on AM4 Zen3 CPU-s.

Hard times for Intel, in situation where green CPU combination can set a heavy knockout at Alder Lake in new Intel 1700 socket.
 
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uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
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What has that got to do with the ACTUAL design/cooling capacity of the Intel reference system? Are we going to pretend boosting algos are no longer tied to thermals?
I did say look 3 posts up, right?

It has already been mentioned in this thread that the 65W figures are NOT representative for TGL performance on the Intel reference system, since the cooling could not sustain continuous 65W package power.
We already know perfectly well the reference numbers of Intel's laptop are not indicative of 65W sustained performance. Thankfully, HUB's chart does not use Intel's reference platform, and as you can see there is still a sizable difference in efficiency.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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What has that got to do with the ACTUAL design/cooling capacity of the Intel reference system? Are we going to pretend boosting algos are no longer tied to thermals?
Sigh, let's talk about TGL reference system cooling. We have detailed info on this from Tom's Hardware:
To check stability over a longer duration, we ran Cinbench R23 for 20 runs. The cooling, which was exceptionally loud during all of the tests (and sometimes while the sample system was doing absolutely nothing) kept it stable.

It started at a high of 11,846.31 while largely settling in the 11,600 range. During the Cinebench stress test, the CPU ran at an average of 3.5 GHz and an average temperature of 85.77 degrees Celsius (186.39 degrees Fahrenheit). While the chart looks largely stable, the monitoring tool HWinfo reported that the CPU was being thermally throttled for the majority of the test. This is the downside of putting a high-wattage processor in a slim system, and also explains the constant fan noise.
1622554567627.png
The laptop has three fans, while even most gaming laptops stick to two larger ones. That may explain the decibels. But what's also fascinating is that the motherboard in the reference platform has been placed effectively upside down. This means that we can't see the full cooler, including the heat pipes. That would require far more disassembly.
To complicate things, this reference design is meant to represent a new "thin enthusiast" sector for Intel, which meant we couldn't see how the Core i9-11980HK will perform at its best, in a thicker laptop with more elaborate cooling.
Intel was as arrogant as ever, and decided to invent this "thin enthusiast" segment for mobile, which is just an euphemism for "thin and loud". As you said before in this thread, Intel really needs a Common Sense department to run reality checks on every idea Marketing comes up with.

That being said, the cooling solution on this thin reference system was as powerful as possible given the form factor (3 fans... sigh), and also very aggressive in behavior according to Tom's reporting. I'm pretty sure it had no problem ensuring optimal performance in the 35-45W TDP range for "CPU only" benchmarks.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,533
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I did say look 3 posts up, right?



We already know perfectly well the reference numbers of Intel's laptop are not indicative of 65W sustained performance. Thankfully, HUB's chart does not use Intel's reference platform, and as you can see there is still a sizable difference in efficiency.
Let's see then:

Ryzen 5800H & 5900HX chassis:
The test system we’re using for benchmarking the R9 5900HX is the XMG Apex 17, an upcoming gaming laptop based on a Clevo chassis that’s almost identical to the Apex 17 we used previously to test both the Ryzen 7 5800H and RTX 3060 laptop GPU, making this a higher-end configuration of the same system.
11800H
The test system for today’s review is not an Intel reference platform but a production laptop from Gigabyte, the new Aero 15 OLED. This is more of a creator/productivity focused system than Gigabyte’s Aorus line-up, so the Aero features a gorgeous 15.6-inch 4K OLED panel which is amazing for content creation and viewing.
Do you discern any advantage here for any of the platforms? And in gaming, when the DGPUs kick in? Again, see the LTT video I linked for a side-by-side visual comparison, instead of being dismissive outright. I know a few of you who bring this up when the shoe's on the other foot.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,550
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And this is what I find puzzling. How much heat is the cooling dissipating in gaming when it can't sustain 65w handling only the CPU? Less than 65w?
Hehe, it doesn't work quite like that. Here's the big catch about heatsinks and coolers in general: the amount of heat they can displace increases linearly with the temperature delta between the heatsink and the air passing through the fins. The hotter the heasink is allowed to get, the more heat it able to dissipate.

Let's start with a familiar example: moving from Intel 8th gen CPU with paste thermal interface material, to 9th gen with solder, and last to 10th gen with lowered thickness interface. While using the same cooler with the same fan & speed, simply improving thermal transfer between the CPU die and the heatsink will result in a better performing cooler (heatsink gets hotter, more heat gets dissipated). The cooler is the same, yet heat dissipation has improved due to lower thermal resistance between CPU die and heatspreader.

Back to the mobile scenario, when attempting to prevent the CPU from throttling, the laptop cooler will use only part of it's potential. For example some heatpipes may not make (direct) contact with the CPU, but with the GPU. The same may apply to fan assemblies. On top of that, when using both GPU and CPU, the heatsink will capture more heat and potentially rise higher in temperature (in all areas). This can easily result in more heat being dissipated during combined workloads, as long as we're not talking about 65W package power for CPU + xy W package power for the GPU, since obviously adding GPU power will introduce some additional limitation to max CPU power. You may find that 45W + 45W is possible, or maybe something like 35W + 60W.

It all depends on heatpipe configuration and where the overall bottlenecks of the cooler lie: thermal resistance close to die (meaning bad paste), heatpipes, radiator, airflow, noise profile.

PS: one of my laptops had a 45W CPU, a 50W dGPU and a dual fan config with 2 shared heatpipes. The laptop was able to keep the CPU from throttling while runing Prime95 in long sessions, but temps were close to the limit (PL2 was ~56W, boost window was 1 minute or less). The same system was able to run combined gaming workloads which could easily have reached 70W+ of power use.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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In light of "that other company" messing around with cache stacking: why isn't Intel utilizing Foveros to do the same thing (more or less)? They have the packaging tech to do it.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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In light of "that other company" messing around with cache stacking: why isn't Intel utilizing Foveros to do the same thing (more or less)? They have the packaging tech to do it.
Meteor Lake uses Foveros but unlikely that you will see anything before then. The original Foveros patent had the mesh+L3 cache on the bottom die.
 

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