• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

Page 405 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,214
2,270
136
Intel finally launches Icelake Xeons. 20%+ IPC, upto 40c/80t and 270w.

Intel 3rd Gen Xeon Scalable (Ice Lake SP) Review: Generationally Big, Competitively Small - AnandTech

Intel Xeon Ice Lake Edition Marks the Start and End of an Era - ServeTheHome

Intel Launches 3rd Gen Ice Lake Xeon Scalable - Wikichip

As part of the early ship program for Icelake they have already shipped 200k+ units.
Can't wait till we have Alder Lake and Sapphire Rapid for really cutthroat competition in (most likely) 2022H1
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
9,047
1,743
126
It's definitely better than Skylake Server so that's a plus. The single core frequency regression is not a big deal in servers but does make it obvious that any HEDT/W processors wouldn't really make sense.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,017
1,808
126
That's not how I remember this happening. I recall that the local GFA (Geekbench Fetish Association) was pretty adamant that RKL would be this gaming champion riding on the back of some absurd sounding IPC gains. So I'd say that the surprise was more like negative, and that came with the first real i7 "leaks".
When I said i7 I meant Nehalem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97 and lobz

firewolfsm

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2005
1,841
20
81
Being fabbed on 10SF, which should be comparable to TSMC 7nm in density and efficiency, I think the Icelake Xeon review makes it pretty clear that Intel's newest cores are simply less efficient than current Zen. Tigerlake cores wouldn't change the equation much there.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
9,047
1,743
126
Being fabbed on 10SF, which should be comparable to TSMC 7nm in density and efficiency, I think the Icelake Xeon review makes it pretty clear that Intel's newest cores are simply less efficient than current Zen. Tigerlake cores wouldn't change the equation much there.
It's not on 10SF. They might respin it to 10SF/10ESF if the rumor that SPR is high end only, but that isn't the case right now.
 

uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
1,441
2,706
96
It's not on 10SF. They might respin it to 10SF/10ESF if the rumor that SPR is high end only, but that isn't the case right now.
Speaking of which:


Just from the looks of this there are clearly lower end dies (24c 225W here) but given it's listed as the "lowest volume" I'd say that there's a good chance SPR's main focus will be on SKUs that sit above ICL-SP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
9,047
1,743
126
Speaking of which:


Just from the looks of this there are clearly lower end dies (24c 225W here) but given it's listed as the "lowest volume" I'd say that there's a good chance SPR's main focus will be on SKUs that sit above ICL-SP.
I was thinking that SPR would replace most or all of Plat and this ICL respin would be Gold and below. That wouldn't stop them from doing some lowerish core count models in Plat.

You're looking at what, 800+ mm2 of silicon, for SPR?
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,031
6,001
136
As part of the early ship program for Icelake they have already shipped 200k+ units.


Intel has a funny definition of "early".


Definitely a solid step up for Intel. Still a bit behind AMD with regards to efficiency.
. . . and raw MT performance, which makes a big difference in the server room. It isn't beating out the EPYC 7742 much less EPYC 7763. Intel's low core count per socket is biting them in the posterior, and yet they're burning a lot of power to achieve those results anyway.
 

uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
1,441
2,706
96
I was thinking that SPR would replace most or all of Plat and this ICL respin would be Gold and below. That wouldn't stop them from doing some lowerish core count models in Plat.

You're looking at what, 800+ mm2 of silicon, for SPR?
I wouldn't be surprised if it's significantly more than that. Assuming that you have all of the dies on package ofc.
 

Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,974
413
126
As expected, supply shortage is everywhere, even Intel is not lucky one

Help me out here. The article reads that Intel will allocating more i9 parts than i7 and i5 so there will be increased shortages for the lower end parts. If this is true then Intel's yields must be fab-ulous, right? If a company is selling every part it manufactures and each part is binned then sales are a direct correlation to yields I assume? But then again they've had 6 years to get 14nm working properly so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
 

Bouowmx

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2016
1,101
493
146
The lower-end stack of Ice Lake Xeon looks kinda ok for HEDT? Though, it's not happening.
4310 -> 'i9-11900X': 12 cores, $501
4314 -> 'i9-11920X': 16 cores, $694
4316 -> 'i9-11940X': 20 cores, $1002
5318Y -> 'i9-11960X': 24 cores, $1273
6330 -> 'i9-11980XE': 28 cores, $1894 (this core count is where the HCC die tops out)
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,031
6,001
136
Haven't they been sampling/selling Ice Lake Server since like Q2 2019?
Sampling? Sure. There have been Ice Lake-SP results in GB5 for some time, in core counts all the way down to 6 (if I recall correctly). Selling . . . ? Not sure. I'm sure Facebook might have gotten some early silicon, but who knows?
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,049
837
136
Not sure why would anyone want an early sample. Not after ZEN2 based EPYC for sure. If you are hyper converger/consolidator/cloud monster without in-house ARM cpu program, you are probably already rocking some high core AMD server. Or early sampling next get ARM stuff?

Now if you just need certain capacity server, things not that interesting either. Performance increase is so tiny, that early adopter problems associated with "sampling" make whole thing moot. Why would someone trade 10-15% of clock for 10-15 IPC increase?

Pricing? Say you were buying 6248R, for 2700$ ( with whatever discount, but lets assume they are const for IceLake-SP). What does your dollars get you? ~6348 for $3072. 4 more cores and clock regressions across the board. 53XX Golds are no-go due to loosing clock in Ghz range, even if tasty priced.
 

Dayman1225

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2017
1,014
613
106
Not sure why would anyone want an early sample. Not after ZEN2 based EPYC for sure. If you are hyper converger/consolidator/cloud monster without in-house ARM cpu program, you are probably already rocking some high core AMD server. Or early sampling next get ARM stuff?
As much as I agree the market simply does not work like that. Intel is the incumbent - people will buy intel because they are Intel. Inertia in DC is next level and upgrade cycles are much longer than what me and you are used to. I’d be willing to bet that ICL-SP out ships Rome and Milan combined.
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,049
837
136
As much as I agree the market simply does not work like that.
I was commenting about wanting early samples, as Skylake-SP was early sampled to hyperscaled for almost a year before public release. No one except big server vendors "want" ICL-SP samples this time + i am sure they have been getting some since 2019?
And ICL-SP will outship anything AMD has to offer, even without incumbent status, unlike people around this forum believe, not every CPU InteL or AMD ship are 64 or 40 core halo products. Just like on ther desktop, if 64C TR or 16C 5950X exists, people are still buying 6-8C CPUs in epic volumes in all segments.
 

eek2121

Senior member
Aug 2, 2005
811
903
136
Intel has a funny definition of "early".



. . . and raw MT performance, which makes a big difference in the server room. It isn't beating out the EPYC 7742 much less EPYC 7763. Intel's low core count per socket is biting them in the posterior, and yet they're burning a lot of power to achieve those results anyway.
Sapphire Rapids will close that gap considerably.

EDIT: According to rumors, SR will feature up to 56 golden cove cores.
 
Last edited:

Edrick

Golden Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,915
200
106
The lower-end stack of Ice Lake Xeon looks kinda ok for HEDT? Though, it's not happening.
4310 -> 'i9-11900X': 12 cores, $501
4314 -> 'i9-11920X': 16 cores, $694
4316 -> 'i9-11940X': 20 cores, $1002
5318Y -> 'i9-11960X': 24 cores, $1273
6330 -> 'i9-11980XE': 28 cores, $1894 (this core count is where the HCC die tops out)
I think the next HEDT we will see from Intel will be SPR. And honestly, I am quite excited about it.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,328
3,209
136
Sapphire Rapids will close that gap considerably.

EDIT: According to rumors, SR will feature up to 56 golden cove cores.
Only 56?! The package footprint looks huge. I also thought that SPR will have two CPU dice per package. Seems a bit sad that Intel still won't get to 64 cores with that setup. I suppose that I/O and the mem controller will be pretty large on those dice.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
9,047
1,743
126
Only 56?! The package footprint looks huge. I also thought that SPR will have two CPU dice per package. Seems a bit sad that Intel still won't get to 64 cores with that setup.
It's four. The client Golden Cove is probally going to be very large as it is, plus you have to add the second AVX-512 unit plus AMX and all the server fun stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97 and Saylick

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,328
3,209
136
It's four. The client Golden Cove is probally going to be very large as it is, plus you have to add the second AVX-512 unit plus AMX and all the server fun stuff.
Thanks. Forgot about the second AVX unit and AMX - going senile I guess. Intel is really doubling down on ML/DL.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY