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Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
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722
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Yes exactly. Tigerlake is running with CL22 when it's using DDR4-3200. RKL-S will mostly run with CL14-CL16 depending on the RAM, it makes a difference in some benchmarks.

The latest leaks are not pointing to a IPC below Sunny Cove, the first Geekbench entry was obviously flawed:



Comparing Singlethread to Willow Cove 4.7 Ghz with the fastest supported DDR4-3200 2x16 GB CL22 dual rank, x8:


6% higher clocking RKL-S ST ->12% faster INT + 12% faster FP
So is it time to throw the "garbage" laptop systems comparisons to desktop systems into the trash? Halleluiah!!
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,375
722
136
Well gee, Intel design should just separate from the fabs right now. Problem solved, right? Why would you assert TSMC to be the primary reason for AMD's outright technical dominance without the slightest clue of how much of an impact the process has? How would you even know the transistor parameters changes and how they apply to architecture and design? Dennard scaling tapered off years ago and yet TSMC reversed the trend in the year 2020 somehow to benefit AMD... sounds legit. LOL.

I do like how you spun a desperate reactionary product as a "wake up". When the reality is Intel management having to choose this barely acceptable option out of a set of horrible choices,. That is high quality spin.
Well gee! Look who's trying to sound smart after his doom and gloom rantings a few pages back. I was expecting to see you express some type of shock or admiration that smart chip architects seem to have squeezed more juice than you ever could contemplate. Instead, you go on your usual verbose rants that lacks any insights as to how such a feat is even possible; you being the all-knowing, disgruntled, ex-Intel employee.

No reason at all, other than the fact that Willow Cove was likely still in early development in 2018 and even Sunny Cove was not ready for market under any process. How do you come up with this stuff?
Why? You don't know? I wonder why? Even your sources were blindsided by this? That's interesting, coming from you, because you come off as someone who knows all the happenings at Intel, down to the horribad power consumption of RKL-S.
 
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Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,375
722
136
That's not how the English language works.
We found the culprit. I've found that what passes as a safe remark in country A could earn a person an instant slap in country B. It's a cultural thing.
Regarding the above, my non English language retort is: "Did the sentence compose itself."? If one takes delight in seeing their statements being complimented, they could equally take offense when the response is the opposite. :D
 
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Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,988
426
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We finally got a Willow Cove score in the Handbrake bench.
Pretty interesting. Yes it's mobile and yes it's showing considerable improvement over Skylake desktop. That Kaby Lake score is from my Surface Laptop 2, it's a bit of an outlier but I checked it 4 times? If there is more than one score for a core in the chart I averaged them. I didn't average the kaby lake with the other Skylakes because it seemed out of sorts.

Average by core - fps/core/GHz (fps per available GHz)
Zen 3 (Vermeer)
0.241​
100%​
Tiger Lake (Willow Cove)
0.217​
90%​
Zen 2 (Rome)
0.216​
90%​
Kaby Lake R (Skylake)
0.177​
73%​
Haswell
0.156​
65%​
Comet Lake (Skylake)
0.155​
64%​
Zen+ (Summit Ridge)
0.149​
62%​
 

dmens

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2005
2,158
665
136
Well gee! Look who's trying to sound smart after his doom and gloom rantings a few pages back. I was expecting to see you express some type of shock or admiration that smart chip architects seem to have squeezed more juice than you ever could contemplate. Instead, you go on your usual verbose rants that lacks any insights as to how such a feat is even possible; you being the all-knowing, disgruntled, ex-Intel employee.
Oh wow. By juice, do you mean amps? If so you tried your grade school gold star best at making a point, they certainly tried their best to "squeeze more juice". Unfortunately for you, being impressed by individual, no-context leaked benchmarks showing an upcoming chip barely matching a design already on the market while sucking down twice as much power (my estimate, take it or leave it, I don't care) is the domain of fanboy dabblers. Do you see any power measurements with these leaks? What about run-time length? Cooling arrangement? Test bed setup? Are you seriously that gullible? Don't answer that, it is rhetorical.

Why? You don't know? I wonder why? Even your sources were blindsided by this? That's interesting, coming from you, because you come off as someone who knows all the happenings at Intel, down to the horribad power consumption of RKL-S.
LOL, sources? Again, unlike you, I know how (very) long it takes Intel to develop a CPU to market. And even for a dabbler such as yourself, the claim of a 2018 Rocketlake is so plainly absurd that even you should know not to use it as a talking point.
 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
4,293
5,466
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If one takes delight in seeing their statements being complimented, they could equally take offense when the response is the opposite. :D
So every time someone agrees with your arguments you think people like you? That's not how it works in any language.

Taking offense to a reply does not (automatically) make the reply a personal attack.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,375
722
136
Oh wow. By juice, do you mean amps? If so you tried your grade school gold star best at making a point, they certainly tried their best to "squeeze more juice". Unfortunately for you, being impressed by individual, no-context leaked benchmarks showing an upcoming chip barely matching a design already on the market while sucking down twice as much power (my estimate, take it or leave it, I don't care) is the domain of fanboy dabblers. Do you see any power measurements with these leaks? What about run-time length? Cooling arrangement? Test bed setup? Are you seriously that gullible? Don't answer that, it is rhetorical.



LOL, sources? Again, unlike you, I know how (very) long it takes Intel to develop a CPU to market. And even for a dabbler such as yourself, the claim of a 2018 Rocketlake is so plainly absurd that even you should know not to use it as a talking point.
Let's just say I'm happy you were a low tier employee at Intel and weren't in charge of any real decisions involving architecture back-porting. Otherwise, RKL-S would've been toast. So, just be content doing what you do and stop bad-mouthing people with real decisions to make. Truce?
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,375
722
136
So every time someone agrees with your arguments you think people like you? That's not how it works in any language.

Taking offense to a reply does not make the reply a personal attack.
Thanks for the education, Mr. Expert in Global Culture.

Edit: I believe I said something about a statement being complimented, why would you interprete that as merely having someone agree with one's statement? Is that a mistake on your part or strawman?
 

dmens

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2005
2,158
665
136
Let's just say I'm happy you were a low tier employee at Intel and weren't in charge of any real decisions involving architecture back-porting. Otherwise, RKL-S would've been toast. So, just be content doing what you do and stop bad-mouthing people with real decisions to make. Truce?
Oh man. Low-tier... pulling rank into an argument... man, you would be like, the perfect Intel employee. Literally spot on. "Oh yeah?!? I am the grand poobah, so I win this argument". Hahahahahahaha.

The fact that you called my point about Dennard scaling "trying to sound smart" says it all. :grinning:
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
3,484
3,738
136
Without going into any detail, the fact that we're debating it here should offer a clue.
Just because you can take a critique of an argument as a personal attack, that doesn't make it a cultural norm. I'm not aware of any culture where this is considered a normal thing but I'm more than willing to be enlightened on the subject if such a culture actually exists (outside of fanboy culture as @dmens pointed out).
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,375
722
136
Just because you can take a critique of an argument as a personal attack, that doesn't make it a cultural norm. I'm not aware of any culture where this is considered a normal thing but I'm more than willing to be enlightened on the subject if such a culture actually exists (outside of fanboy culture as @dmens pointed out).
What is a critique of an argument? Is that a counter-argument? Obviously not, so why not offer a counter-argument?

I could have answered this post as being grossly myopic, which you may deem normal or not, but it won't go down well with other people I know. Instead, I went with a counter-argument, and that's all the difference.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
3,484
3,738
136
What is a critique of an argument? Is that a counter-argument? Obviously not, so why not offer a counter-argument?

I could have answered this post as being grossly myopic, which you may deem normal or not, but it won't go down well with other people I know. Instead, I went with a counter-argument, and that's all the difference.
What are you even talking about? I think you've completely jumped the shark.
 
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Exist50

Senior member
Aug 18, 2016
249
290
136
Oh wow. By juice, do you mean amps? If so you tried your grade school gold star best at making a point, they certainly tried their best to "squeeze more juice". Unfortunately for you, being impressed by individual, no-context leaked benchmarks showing an upcoming chip barely matching a design already on the market while sucking down twice as much power (my estimate, take it or leave it, I don't care) is the domain of fanboy dabblers. Do you see any power measurements with these leaks? What about run-time length? Cooling arrangement? Test bed setup? Are you seriously that gullible? Don't answer that, it is rhetorical.



LOL, sources? Again, unlike you, I know how (very) long it takes Intel to develop a CPU to market. And even for a dabbler such as yourself, the claim of a 2018 Rocketlake is so plainly absurd that even you should know not to use it as a talking point.
You've repeatedly insisted that all the leakers are wrong about Rocket Lake performance, power, etc. It's increasingly apparent that you are wrong, and with that goes any ability to pretend you have insider or professional insight.
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,070
747
106
That's not how the English language works.
Then enlighten me, whose argument does the "your" refer to?
For crying out loud, it wasn't even that bad an insult, as anand forums go these days. I just dont like seeing someone deny what they said when it is written in black and white.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
3,484
3,738
136
Then enlighten me, whose argument does the "your" refer to?
For crying out loud, it wasn't even that bad an insult, as anand forums go these days. I just dont like seeing someone deny what they said when it is written in black and white.
If I say your argument is invalid, I'm not saying you as a person are invalid, I'm saying the argument you presented is invalid. It's not a personal attack.
 

dmens

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2005
2,158
665
136
You've repeatedly insisted that all the leakers are wrong about Rocket Lake performance, power, etc. It's increasingly apparent that you are wrong, and with that goes any ability to pretend you have insider or professional insight.
Apparent how? Oh right, your preferred leaks. Has there been a single leak with power measurement? No? Guess it's just faith on your part then.
 
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Exist50

Senior member
Aug 18, 2016
249
290
136
Apparent how? Oh right, your preferred leaks. Has there been a single leak with power numbers?
Lol, fine, dig yourself even deeper. And yes, there have been leaks.



Pretty much identical PL2 values as Comet Lake. Which is to be expected given that it's platform compatible. If you actually had relevant experience, you'd know the OEMs wouldn't tolerate needing to design new motherboards to use Rocket Lake.
 
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