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Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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positivedoppler

Senior member
Apr 30, 2012
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Weren't there rumors that the end of 2021 was the drop dead date for Aurora? If not, perhaps the DOE should consider dropping Intel and goi
I would not say Charlie has been "accurate". More like the title of his rag "semi-accurate". He seem to go by the theory that if you spread enough FUD, some if it will come true.
He's been pretty spot on so far regarding Intel's 10nm delay.
 
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Exist50

Member
Aug 18, 2016
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Regarding Charlie's claims, I haven't heard anything about significant recent server delays. Sapphire Rapids might have been pushed out a bit (extra stepping?), but still within the 2021 timeframe, and Granite Rapids is apparently a bit of an organizational mess, but that's nothing new.
 

Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Tiger Lake SuperFin is currently reaching 4.8GHz. Considering that is a mobile part with a low power envelope it seems as though Intel's 10nm SuperFin is doing pretty well, right? Sunny Cove at 4.8GHz would most likely beat Skylake at 5.3GHz in many applications so I can only assume they are going another round at 14+++ because they don't have 10nm SuperFin capacity for mobile and desktop at this point in time.

But if they can move Willow Cove to 10nm Enhanced Superfin at 5+ GHz, those parts could be a reasonable competitor for Zen 3 if there is die space for more cores. Especially if they can reach mid 5GHz clocks on all cores. Intel is definitely down but they ain't dead yet.
 

positivedoppler

Senior member
Apr 30, 2012
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I recall he stated over a year ago that the current 10nm on the roadmap was canned and the new 10nm will be nothing like what they originally advertised.
Here are the old articles.

I think people can judge themselves how accurate or inaccurate they were.

BTW, his latest tweet is scary.
regarding when Intel will be competitive in servers again.
"2025 best case"
 
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cortexa99

Member
Jul 2, 2018
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Here are the old articles.

I think people can judge themselves how accurate or inaccurate they were.

BTW, his latest tweet is scary.
regarding when Intel will be competitive in servers again.
"2025 best case"
Charlie might be the earliest one that describe the bad picture of intel's 10nm, and looks like what he said in 2018 were frightening similar to nowaday situation......hard to imagine if intel still cannot deliver on time next year, not only AMD's Zen3/Zen4 but also Apple has its own chips in Mac, time is running out for intel.....
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,627
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My 3900x scores a 513 in CBR20 ST @ 4.4 GHz (static). Downscaling the Rocket Lake-S ES chip to 4.4 GHz gives an ST score of 542 - a whopping 5.7% faster than my Matisse chip. Hmm.

Tiger Lake SuperFin is currently reaching 4.8GHz. Considering that is a mobile part with a low power envelope it seems as though Intel's 10nm SuperFin is doing pretty well, right?
No idea on yields. Intel still hasn't released anything other than 4c Tiger Lake on this process. Something is amiss.

Sunny Cove at 4.8GHz would most likely beat Skylake at 5.3GHz in many applications so I can only assume they are going another round at 14+++ because they don't have 10nm SuperFin capacity for mobile and desktop at this point in time.
. . . that might be true, but I see no reason why Intel would even think about Sunny Cove on 10SF (or 10SFE).
 
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Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
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. . . that might be true, but I see no reason why Intel would even think about Sunny Cove on 10SF (or 10SFE).
The only reason I was thinking Intel might go with Sunny Cove instead of Willow Cove at first crack for 10SF/post Skylake core is the same (likely) reason they are using Sunny vs Willow for Rocket Lake. That being the larger L2/L3 die space is better spent on additional cores.

Of course all of this is being "forced" by Zen3 to a degree. If they really need the extra IPC of Willow Cove (vs. Zen 3) then they may need to sacrifice some profit (die space) and use Willow Cove. Also, could it be that Sunny Cove is more finely tuned at this point to reach higher frequencies than Willow Cove?
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,627
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Of course all of this is being "forced" by Zen3 to a degree.
The question is whether Intel can pivot to any new product besides Rocket Lake-S regardless of what is forcing their hand.

Also, could it be that Sunny Cove is more finely tuned at this point to reach higher frequencies than Willow Cove?
Doubtful.
 

RTX

Junior Member
Nov 5, 2020
12
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Did they ever port the SF features for Rocketlake too? The power draw wouldn't be significantly higher, right? Cfv^2 = watts?
 

cortexa99

Member
Jul 2, 2018
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Ok, only 6 points more for 5.5ghz Rocket Lake or 600mhz higher CPU frequency.IPC is very impresive......................vs Zen 3/4.9ghz:relieved:

If this RKL ST score is true, situation might change a bit but not that much(less core, potentially high power drain and high cost), I hope Xe IGP with 4-6 cores SKUs would have a better value than APUs because it's very likely that mid-range is the only segment RKL can shine.
OTOH seems there's almost no IPC loss when doing backport to 14nm.
 

Hulk

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,660
91
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If this RKL ST score is true, situation might change a bit but not that much(less core, potentially high power drain and high cost), I hope Xe IGP with 4-6 cores SKUs would have a better value than APUs because it's very likely that mid-range is the only segment RKL can shine.
OTOH seems there's almost no IPC loss when doing backport to 14nm.
If RKL is somewhat competitive with Zen3 then Intel can make the product "better" by lowering cost.
As Anand used to say, "There are no bad products, only bad price points."
 
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mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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The scaling is a bit off on this, at 5.0 Ghz it scored 616 according to Raichu.
 

Asterox

Senior member
May 15, 2012
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If RKL is somewhat competitive with Zen3 then Intel can make the product "better" by lowering cost.
As Anand used to say, "There are no bad products, only bad price points."
Look how is that going in real life, or Intel 6/12 vs AMD 6/12 CPU king of today Desktop market.

Intel CPU is cheeper, but hm 99% people buy only R5 3600.





R5 3600, 103 000 sold

i5 two versions, 800 sold


"Rocket Lake 8/16 CPU estimated sales", Intel 2 vs AMD 8/16 CPU 20 units no doubt.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
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It looks like the 8 core Tigerlake has a base clock of 3.1 at 45W but it only has 32 EUs compared to the 1185G7's 96EU.

Is there a reason for BGA devices to have more pins than the LGA variants? 6700K / 1151 and the 6820HK / 1440 etc
The Skylake mobile chip, Core i7 6700HQ is a quadcore with a base clock of 2.6GHz at 45w. All core boost is 3.1GHz. So this upcoming Tigerlake chip essentially doubles the cores, and has a +500MHz base clock and about 20% ipc bump at the same power. Where the 6700HQ has a single core boost of 3.5GHz, this chip should be hitting 5GHz.
 

ondma

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2018
1,709
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The Skylake mobile chip, Core i7 6700HQ is a quadcore with a base clock of 2.6GHz at 45w. All core boost is 3.1GHz. So this upcoming Tigerlake chip essentially doubles the cores, and has a +500MHz base clock and about 20% ipc bump at the same power. Where the 6700HQ has a single core boost of 3.5GHz, this chip should be hitting 5GHz.
Supply limited I guess, but if given a higher power envelope, seems like a better desktop chip than RL.
 

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