Indictments to flow when?

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Feb 4, 2009
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Looks like they have Trump signing some of the checks that are part of the tax fraud scheme so it looks like he’s implicated as well

We already know the act:
"Who Me?"
It is the accounts fault/ accounting firms fault/ Lawyers fault/ Legal firms fault/ I sign hundreds of things per day, I spend hours signing stuff every morning

I suspect that doesn't matter in this case.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,087
12,299
136
Looks like they have Trump signing some of the checks that are part of the tax fraud scheme so it looks like he’s implicated as well
Weisselberg also told an employee to remove "per Allen Weisselberg" from ledger entries as evidence of intent.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
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I heard that Wiesselberg and Trump sent messages to each via Fedex instead of conventional means.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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Ain't pullin' no punches here:

"
www.vanityfair.com.ico
Vanity Fair|1 hour ago
Is Donald Trump finally going to face consequences for being one of the worst people in history, and possibly a criminal? On Thursday, things took a step in that direction! "

 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
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Just read the indictment - It seems Weisselberg did not receive his apartment, cars, etc. on top of his negotiated salary, like a normal fringe benefit. Every dime the Trump Organization paid on the behalf of Weisselberg was tracked internally, and his regular salary, the amount he received in paychecks that were reported to the IRS, was reduced by the amount he was paid “off the books”. It seems like Weisselberg would be the main beneficiary of effectively being paid “under the table” for a portion of his compensation. Does the organization benefit from paying employees like that? I think they might if there is a employer payroll tax, etc. but I’m not sure if there is something else I’m missing.

I don’t understand the mentality of these people. Ethics aside, you have a $940k income. You’re doing great. Why take such a stupid risk with your non-incarcerated ass with such a harebrained scheme that probably has a completely negligible impact on your quality of life? Fucking stupid!

I don't see Trump doing time. Trump has a lifetime of skirting the law and (largely) getting away with it. This indictment will not likely end with some kind of substantial punishment for Trump himself. I suspect the most likely outcome is a settlement in which the Trump org admits no wrong-doing, has to pay a large but not impossible fine, plus some other provisos about future oversight. Then Trump will send out an email and rake in $100s of thousands from his rubes/marks, most of which will go directly into his pocket.

That said, because this is the first real criminal indictment against the Trump org, it’s not impossible that the prospect of jail time might induce Weisselberg to flip, and then anything could happen. That’s what's different this time. Indictments will expose the true organization underneath the Trump Collective. Every time they try to dodge, they will have to detail exactly what the relationship between one part of the Collective and another. The AG will be on every bit of that like a terrier. No one will care except those of us who already know he’s a lifetime grifter and crook. His MAGA's and other Republicans will consider him a martyr and victim.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,842
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Lol ... One of the Trump lawyers was on TV talking about how bigger criminals have gotten away with this before. I don’t think that’s a great argument to make. That seems to be their chief defense. “Other people did it too”. It’s a typical Trump distraction technique. “Look over here instead! I only look like a criminal when you’re looking at me so stop looking at me!”
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,842
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Cohen’s assertions about other documentation aside, it sounds like Goldman is saying that that he knows that evidence of criminal activity exists but as long as everyone stays quiet Trump will skate. Not exactly a claim of innocence.

cd6ebee7dc61de9be7083d0418c796533bb6b0fd.png
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,243
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I agree with this editorial here:


That the court needs to issue a gag order preventing Trump from making comments which could prejudice the jury pool. That means all the usual Trumpian things like defaming prosecutors and witnesses. Things he and his surrogates are already doing.

WHEN he ignores the gag order, he's on the hook for contempt of court and can be sent to jail.
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
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I don’t understand the mentality of these people. Ethics aside, you have a $940k income. You’re doing great. Why take such a stupid risk with your non-incarcerated ass with such a harebrained scheme that probably has a completely negligible impact on your quality of life? Fucking stupid!

Exactly! And this is the point. When greed is involved position nor power seems to matter. One doesn't need to be poor or a minority to be greedy. It would seem that when the rich and powerful become rich and powerful that greed becomes their addiction, like their cocaine, where too much is never enough. By the way, they all are probably coke heads as well. They would have to be to think that they could pull this illegal crap with absolutely no accountability. Just look at them, look at Trump, look at his kids and tell me they are not all coke heads.
 
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conehead433

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2002
5,569
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Rachel Maddow had a pretty good take on the Trump Org keeping detailed records of their entire cheating scheme. What a bunch of idiots. Makes sense when you have an idiot -in-chief leading the way.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,974
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Rachel Maddow had a pretty good take on the Trump Org keeping detailed records of their entire cheating scheme. What a bunch of idiots. Makes sense when you have an idiot -in-chief leading the way.
Yes, and while conservatives are shrieking that this isn't a real crime or whatever that's total bullshit. This is 100% something that any person would be prosecuted for.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
32,683
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very interesting take on the proceedings....

Which brings us to today's charges...
...all bank loans with a business come with "lending covenants." These are basically a series of requirements, some of which include "you'll behave" in minor character. But *the most important part* of any loan covenant is the "books and records" portion. It is included in.../9
...every covenant for a bank loan to a business. The terms are simple: You maintain truthful books and records, you attest to us that they are truthful, and we are allowed to review them at any time. There is no "You can lie *just a little bit* on your books and records".../10
...it's all or nothing, like pregnancy: You either are or you arent. The books and records either are truthful or they aren't. Which brings us to count 12, which I think you can now understand the significance of:
Image

Forget Weisselberg. That is every every corporate defendant, every entity that could have a loan covenant in its name. Every Trump Org bank lender in the world, right now, is looking at this indictment, looking at their covenants, and calling the Trump Org demanding.../12
...they turn over every relevant book and record pertaining to these issues. If they refuse...BOOM. Loans pulled. If they do and the banks don't like what they see...BOOM. Loans pulled. If the loans come due (which 100s of millions do next year) no way they get refinanced..../13
...there may be something I am missing here, but I do not see how the Trump Org survives this without some sort of corrupt deal overseas. But even that seems far-fetched. Instead, it may be the biggest real estate corp bankruptcy in history..../14
......and given that those of us who covered his business for decades - back when he was a democrat/reform party/whoever would have him - and always knew he was a crook, all I can say is, what the hell took so long?

very interesting
 
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Feb 4, 2009
35,862
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very interesting take on the proceedings....

Which brings us to today's charges...
...all bank loans with a business come with "lending covenants." These are basically a series of requirements, some of which include "you'll behave" in minor character. But *the most important part* of any loan covenant is the "books and records" portion. It is included in.../9
...every covenant for a bank loan to a business. The terms are simple: You maintain truthful books and records, you attest to us that they are truthful, and we are allowed to review them at any time. There is no "You can lie *just a little bit* on your books and records".../10
...it's all or nothing, like pregnancy: You either are or you arent. The books and records either are truthful or they aren't. Which brings us to count 12, which I think you can now understand the significance of:
Image

Forget Weisselberg. That is every every corporate defendant, every entity that could have a loan covenant in its name. Every Trump Org bank lender in the world, right now, is looking at this indictment, looking at their covenants, and calling the Trump Org demanding.../12
...they turn over every relevant book and record pertaining to these issues. If they refuse...BOOM. Loans pulled. If they do and the banks don't like what they see...BOOM. Loans pulled. If the loans come due (which 100s of millions do next year) no way they get refinanced..../13
...there may be something I am missing here, but I do not see how the Trump Org survives this without some sort of corrupt deal overseas. But even that seems far-fetched. Instead, it may be the biggest real estate corp bankruptcy in history..../14
......and given that those of us who covered his business for decades - back when he was a democrat/reform party/whoever would have him - and always knew he was a crook, all I can say is, what the hell took so long?

very interesting

There is no chance every outstanding loan to the Trump companies will be called in all at once and even if they were they’d simply be a chapter 11 style bankruptcy and most of the money owed would be forgiven.
Yes it could happen as written but no it won’t happen as written.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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The realizations that seem to be dawning on some of the Trump crowd right now, lol

The tears of traitors, so delicious...
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,842
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I agree with this editorial here:


That the court needs to issue a gag order preventing Trump from making comments which could prejudice the jury pool. That means all the usual Trumpian things like defaming prosecutors and witnesses. Things he and his surrogates are already doing.

WHEN he ignores the gag order, he's on the hook for contempt of court and can be sent to jail.

Yes ... He’s totally incapable of NOT attacking everybody he can think of.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
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Vance is doing the morally right correct thing in confronting the Trumps’ criminality. But I fear that in doing so they are going to bring him back from the political precipice. Publicity is Trump’s oxygen. This is going to be giving him one hell of a lot of oxygen. He knows among his cultists, there is a strong feeling that he is under siege because he's always the victim and he's ALWAYS treated unfairly. There will be a strong idea of, ‘"They are trying to get me no matter what". His marks believe that when Donald Trump is attacked, they and their beliefs are being attacked also.

The Mafia used to complain about being persecuted by the FBI too.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,087
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Rachel Maddow had a pretty good take on the Trump Org keeping detailed records of their entire cheating scheme. What a bunch of idiots. Makes sense when you have an idiot -in-chief leading the way.
When you work in a den of thieves, you got to keep track of the real money so you won't get stolen blind!