Indictments coming...

[alien42]

Well, Michael Cohen may be next in line for Indictment Bingo...
His NY Office just got raided by the FBI. It was issued by the local Federal DA.

it's being reported as being unrelated to Mueller's investigation (at this point) so i started a new thread.

 

[UNCjigga]

Well, Michael Cohen may be next in line for Indictment Bingo...
His NY Office just got raided by the FBI. It was issued by the local Federal DA.

Mueller found something and referred it to SDNY attorneys office...meaning this is unrelated to Russia Investigation and probably has everything to do with Stormy Daniels.

Wanna bet Mueller found more details on the $130k payment?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Well, Michael Cohen may be next in line for Indictment Bingo...
His NY Office just got raided by the FBI. It was issued by the local Federal DA.

Just another nothing burger to add to the pile

 

[Pens1566]

Mueller found something and referred it to SDNY attorneys office...meaning this is unrelated to Russia Investigation and probably has everything to do with Stormy Daniels.

Wanna bet Mueller found more details on the $130k payment?

I don't think it's unrelated. I think Mueller is using SDNY to execute the searches, and act as the "clean team" to filter out any attorney/client info. It leaves Mueller and his team free from any alleged impropriety, and they get what they were after.

So, either what they went after is legit, OR add a Trump appointed AUSA and another federal judge to the deep state roster.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Mueller found something and referred it to SDNY attorneys office...meaning this is unrelated to Russia Investigation and probably has everything to do with Stormy Daniels.

Wanna bet Mueller found more details on the $130k payment?

That's a very likely reason for the raid.

 

[mikeymikec]

That's a very likely reason for the raid.

Jesus Christ. I'm wondering if these investigations are going to result in some Snowden-level revelations of "the worst things you've heard might be going on but dismissed as probably fantastical are basically standard practice for some".

 

[vi edit]

I don't think it's unrelated. I think Mueller is using SDNY to execute the searches, and act as the "clean team" to filter out any attorney/client info. It leaves Mueller and his team free from any alleged impropriety, and they get what they were after.

So, either what they went after is legit, OR add a Trump appointed AUSA and another federal judge to the deep state roster.

That's my take as well. Seize *ALL THE THINGS* then let a clean team sift through and filter privileged conversations. All they need is a couple loose lipped emails/texts that show intent to commit a crime and they have them nailed. That's at least half the plan here.

The other plan here is to slap the giant cock of justice on table to rattle the ever loving shit out of POTUS. The FBI just raided Trumps long term fixer and security blanket. One, that's as close as you get to him short of a direct family member. Two, Cohen *has* to have a ton of dirty shit that involves Trump. The leverage here either directly as evidence or as material to convince Cohen to flip and tell all (doubt it) is serious.

 

[zinfamous]

^apparently you can't "seize all the things" with this type of raid on a lawyer's office. The warrant is extremely narrow and will only be approved by a magistrate with a specific charge of a known crime, and serious knowledge of evidence of that crime obtainable in the location of the warrant. They can't access any client information if it isn't specifically related to the crime under warrant.

That actually shows how serious this is, because this type of raid can't happen without multiple levels of assurance, and recall that the magistrate (US attorney, et al) that approved this is a Trump appointee.

 

[vi edit]

^apparently you can't "seize all the things" with this type of raid on a lawyer's office. The warrant is extremely narrow and will only be approved by a magistrate with a specific charge of a known crime, and serious knowledge of evidence of that crime obtainable in the location of the warrant. They can't access any client information if it isn't specifically related to the crime under warrant.

That actually shows how serious this is, because this type of raid can't happen without multiple levels of assurance, and recall that the magistrate (US attorney, et al) that approved this is a Trump appointee.

There's a lot of conflicting information out there. The real wrinkle in this is that it's an attorneys office and that comes with a lot more rules than what the raids of Manafort required. My understanding is that a separate review board will have to be constructed to filter out all documents that fall under privilege. The rest can be forwarded on to the prosecuting team. I've not seen any reporting on the scope of the raid. Do you have any links reporting on that?

 

[zinfamous]

There's a lot of conflicting information out there. The real wrinkle in this is that it's an attorneys office and that comes with a lot more rules than what the raids of Manafort required. My understanding is that a separate review board will have to be constructed to filter out all documents that fall under privilege. The rest can be forwarded on to the prosecuting team. I've not seen any reporting on the scope of the raid. Do you have any links reporting on that?

About an hour ago on the Morning Edition report on NPR, whatever analyst/reporter was talking about the limits to this sort of warrant mentioned that the scope has to be extremely narrow for it to be approved, and that there are specific limits as to what can be gathered during the raid.

I think this is it, a former federal prosecutor explains it:
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/10/6010...t-that-the-fbi-searched-michael-cohens-office

The really important thing here, I think, is that this type of warrant is never approved unless there is near-absolute certainty that a crime has been committed by the attorney and more--that evidence of such crime is known to be obtainable through the issuance of the warrant. ....and these are all Trump appointees that had to approve the warrant, which is doubly hilarious considering that he blamed the raid on democrats yesterday.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

^apparently you can't "seize all the things" with this type of raid on a lawyer's office. The warrant is extremely narrow and will only be approved by a magistrate with a specific charge of a known crime, and serious knowledge of evidence of that crime obtainable in the location of the warrant. They can't access any client information if it isn't specifically related to the crime under warrant.

That actually shows how serious this is, because this type of raid can't happen without multiple levels of assurance, and recall that the magistrate (US attorney, et al) that approved this is a Trump appointee.

If secondary incriminating information is found while searching/sifting for the warranted information, can it be used in prosecution? Like, if they found an email from Cohen to say, Putin or something, detailing more crime-related activity (purely hypothetical).

 

[zinfamous]

If secondary incriminating information is found while searching/sifting for the warranted information, can it be used in prosecution? Like, if they found an email from Cohen to say, Putin or something, detailing more crime-related activity (purely hypothetical).

Dunno but I don't imagine why not. If they are looking for bank fraud, and considering that all of Trump's business, and therefore Cohen's (Trump being his only client) pretty much filters through Russia (this is known and long-admitted to by Tweedle Dickless and Tweedle Chinless), then I think if you are looking at specific bank transactions--apparently in this case, maybe involving a donation from a Ukrainian steel magnate--then any type of email related to that would be relevant. Who knows what else is in those specific emails, but I think the warrant is strict about the manner in which and type of evidence that can be gathered. I would think that once those barriers are satisfied, then all of the information within that evidence becomes open for investigation.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Dunno but I don't imagine why not. If they are looking for bank fraud, and considering that all of Trump's business, and therefore Cohen's (Trump being his only client) pretty much filters through Russia (this is known and long-admitted to by Tweedle dickless), then I think if you are looking at specific bank transactions--apparently in this case, maybe involving a donation from a Ukrainian steel magnate--then any type of email related to that would be relevant. Who knows what else is in those specific emails, but I think the warrant is strict about the manner in which and type of evidence that can be gathered. I would think that once those barriers are satisfied, then all of the information within that evidence becomes open for investigation.

I can imagine that Cohen's mailbox/filing cabinets are a veritable smorgasbord of incriminating information.

 

[fskimospy]

I can imagine that Cohen's mailbox/filing cabinets are a veritable smorgasbord of incriminating information.

Criminal activity is not privileged no matter what so if they uncover evidence that Cohen was committing crimes or that he was working to assist other people in committing crimes that’s fair game from my understanding.

Note that’s different than him defending someone who previously committed a crime, it would have to be active/ongoing crime stuff.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Criminal activity is not privileged no matter what so if they uncover evidence that Cohen was committing crimes or that he was working to assist other people in committing crimes that’s fair game from my understanding.

Note that’s different than him defending someone who previously committed a crime, it would have to be active/ongoing crime stuff.

For those interested in a little light reading on the crime-fraud exception subject.

https://www.justice.gov/usam/usam-9-13000-obtaining-evidence#9-13.420

 

[zinfamous]

I can imagine that Cohen's mailbox/filing cabinets are a veritable smorgasbord of incriminating information.

How couldn't it be? Just look at that guy from 2 years ago on CNN, question "who? who? says who?" when confronted by "all the polls." An overconfident-asshat like that has lived a life feeling wholly untouchable. Criminality is just a natural state of being for a piece of shit like Cohen and bold, shameless criminality seems to be a prerequisite for getting friendly and into business with Trump. This is just proven over and over and over again the more that comes out regarding Trump and his wee little empire. It's really just a fact at this point.

You also wonder how many within Trump's circle embraced Trump's obviously-assumed bragging that he could pardon them over anything! if they just carry out his orders. No way Trump hasn't been strutting that around to compel his criminal coterie to overextend their hands. You know Mueller and the FBI know this, and this is why they are probably getting the states involved, where Trump can't do anything.

One thing I was wondering: can a lawyer be compelled by state AG/FBI/Congress/Court/whoever to testify against a client? Can you actually construct a plea that violates attorney/client privilege, and dangle the two options:
of 30+ wearing orange in FPMITAP,
or 1 year + monitoring + lifetime ban from specific investments with specific countries or banking clients...which would essentially also lead to disbarment after the testimony is complete?

LoL. That would be something.

 

[vi edit]

One thing I was wondering: can a lawyer be compelled by state AG/FBI/Congress/Court/whoever to testify against a client? Can you actually construct a plea that violates attorney/client privilege, and dangle the two options:
of 30+ wearing orange in FPMITAP,
or 1 year + monitoring + lifetime ban from specific investments with specific countries or banking clients...which would essentially also lead to disbarment after the testimony is complete?

LoL. That would be something.

Yes they can be asked to testify against their clients.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/30/mueller-manafort-gates-testimony-244339

 

[zinfamous]

Man, I can't wait to purchase Mueller's book in a couple of years.

 

[Pens1566]

Also seeing reports that it wasn't just SDNY, but the FBI NY public corruption unit that assisted in executing. That's not a great sign for ... public officials.

 

[fskimospy]

Man, I can't wait to purchase Mueller's book in a couple of years.

I get why this stuff is really interesting but it should also be terrifying. Our country seems to be on the verge of a governance crisis worse than anything since the civil war.

It’s reasonably likely we have a criminal for a president that will use his power to immunize himself from prosecution. He also appears susceptible to blackmail from hostile foreign powers and may have (likely?) actively conspired with foreign powers to win the presidency. If/when they are confronted with this information it’s reasonably likely his own political party will do nothing or even actively work to undermine the rule of law.

Imagine if Trump somehow was successfully removed from office. How many Republicans would be threatening civil war? How many would engage in some sort of terrorist activity? I think a non-trivial number. Scary stuff.

 

[TeeJay1952]

Just another nothing burger to add to the pile

Damn it! Now I gotta go get burgers.

 

[zerocool84]

When a person chooses to have friends that do illegal things get, hires them at their job to support them, we know that the person is just as guilty as the rest. Regardless of it being an owner at his own company, a gang member, or a mob family.

Trump appoints all these corrupt people, Trump is as guilty as any of these other people. He chose every single one of these corrupt people supporting his agenda.

 

[zinfamous]

When a person chooses to have friends that do illegal things get, hires them at their job to support them, we know that the person is just as guilty as the rest. Regardless of it being an owner at his own company, a gang member, or a mob family.

Trump appoints all these corrupt people, Trump is as guilty as any of these other people. He chose every single one of these corrupt people supporting his agenda.

It's why RICO is so damn tasty right now!

 

[Sunburn74]

^apparently you can't "seize all the things" with this type of raid on a lawyer's office. The warrant is extremely narrow and will only be approved by a magistrate with a specific charge of a known crime, and serious knowledge of evidence of that crime obtainable in the location of the warrant. They can't access any client information if it isn't specifically related to the crime under warrant.

That actually shows how serious this is, because this type of raid can't happen without multiple levels of assurance, and recall that the magistrate (US attorney, et al) that approved this is a Trump appointee.

Exactly. This is a serious serious thing. To get approval for this sort of raid required a large preponderance of wrong doing. It is a very big deal.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Damn it! Now I gotta go get burgers.

Maybe try some like these.