India - Pakistan Crisis

[crisscross]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Dawn reported that investigators from the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation ?have concluded after interrogating the lone captured suspect, Ajmal Amir Kasab, that the Inter-Services Intelligence is not involved in the Mumbai attacks.? The news agency added, however, ?The sources said that FBI investigators had also reached a conclusion that the attackers had come to Mumbai from Pakistan. The plan was hatched in Pakistan and terrorists were provided necessary training by Laskar-e-Toiba, according to the investigators.?

Now even your intelligence agencies are saying the Indians are lying. But maybe you believe the Indians more because of your hatred against us.

umm what? first you said the captured terrorist was not a pakistani. I quoted your own news channels report that he was which you choose to ignore now you are quoting a FBI report that they dont think the ISI was involved. Did you notice the second part where it says the terrorists clearly came from Pakistan?

Please stop posting.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Some of you Americans have been filled with hate against us muslims. To hell with calling yourselves secular. You hate us because of our religion. And not because of what you know about it. You hate us because of what your media tells you. Oppressors live short lives.

Grow the fuck up dude. I don't think anybody on this forum really is "filled with hate against you muslims". The Americans who are anti-muslims are the same group who doesn't want a *half* black man as president, and say he is the anti-christ. They are idiots. The vast majority of the US does not hate muslims. What we hate are terrorists who attack us. Regardless of what you believe Pakistan has repeatedly been linked to terrorists plots, been trying to provoke India, and is more of a "terrorist state" then Iraq was.

A war won't solve anything, and will just breed more conflict in the future. That being said unless Pakistan does some serious work in their country, their asses could be handed to them in the not-to-distant-future if they keep this shit up. If that happens, I can't say I would feel that Pakistan didn't deserve it after the crap they keep doing.

Pakistan is a destabilizing force in the region, and because of that they should be removed as a country that doesn't even have the power to destabilize a McDonald's.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: venkman
I'm surprised India and Israel don't form a strong alliance to battle against Palestine and Pakistan. It seems like the two countries are in very similar situations (democracies fighting crazy, govt sponsored religious nuts) and their militaries could compliment each other.

India and Israel do have some type of strong bond, but India has an even stronger bond with the Arab world. India is highly respected in the Arab world. That's why the only Muslims against India are Pakistani. Everyone else sees India as a friend (this was especially true during the Cold War when India refused to take sides).

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: tvarad

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
India can go ahead and attack Pakistan.

They will have to accept that their 15 major cities will be nuked out ruins.

Pakistan is going to lose no matter what in a war. Unless they can lightning blitz the Indian army into nothingness, they have no chance in a conventional war. However, the game changes drastically when India knows that it's 15 major cities will be nuked. This is nothing but posturing.

The Pakistani army is populated by a bunch of cowards. Whenever their monkey tactics of tweaking the elephants tail have elicited a response, like in 1965, 1971, 1999 what have they done? Either they've turned tail, surrendered en-masse or plain dropped their trousers and showed their a*ses for the whupping to come.

Your bravado doesn't amount to squat.

err, talk about the point going over your head.

I agreed with you, the Pakistani army cannot win in a fight against India. It doesn't have to, because India's top 15 cities will get nuked, along with Pakistan's cities after that. Nukes turn a win-lose situation (eg India wins, Pakistan loses) into a lose-lose situation (both India and Pakistan lose). Pakistan has nothing to lose if war comes to the sub-continent. India has everything to lose because instead of 20,000 soldiers dying, you have 500 million people dying.

It doesn't matter how powerful or how weak your army is, the threat of losing 500 million people and ruining the lives of the other 700 million people is simply too great a loss.

 

[crisscross]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: tvarad

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
India can go ahead and attack Pakistan.

They will have to accept that their 15 major cities will be nuked out ruins.

Pakistan is going to lose no matter what in a war. Unless they can lightning blitz the Indian army into nothingness, they have no chance in a conventional war. However, the game changes drastically when India knows that it's 15 major cities will be nuked. This is nothing but posturing.

The Pakistani army is populated by a bunch of cowards. Whenever their monkey tactics of tweaking the elephants tail have elicited a response, like in 1965, 1971, 1999 what have they done? Either they've turned tail, surrendered en-masse or plain dropped their trousers and showed their a*ses for the whupping to come.

Your bravado doesn't amount to squat.

err, talk about the point going over your head.

I agreed with you, the Pakistani army cannot win in a fight against India. It doesn't have to, because India's top 15 cities will get nuked, along with Pakistan's cities after that. Nukes turn a win-lose situation (eg India wins, Pakistan loses) into a lose-lose situation (both India and Pakistan lose). Pakistan has nothing to lose if war comes to the sub-continent. India has everything to lose because instead of 20,000 soldiers dying, you have 500 million people dying.

It doesn't matter how powerful or how weak your army is, the threat of losing 500 million people and ruining the lives of the other 700 million people is simply too great a loss.

hmm just because both countries have nukes doesn't mean that they will use it. India and Pak went to war in 1999 when Pakistan attacked India and it did not end with Nukes. What India is talking about is a limited assault on terrorist camps not a full fledged war.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Must really suck, living in such a pathetic shit-hole, huh?

Jerkiest post I've seen in a long time, and that's saying something.

Oh, how cute. I have a stalker.

It was a jerky post and pointlessly antagonistic.

I don't think anybody on this forum really is "filled with hate against you muslims".

I do.

The Americans who are anti-muslims are the same group who doesn't want a *half* black man as president, and say he is the anti-christ.

An unfortunately large % of the general pop, so there are surely a few on this board. I don't want to name names but one in particular fits this category perfectly.

 

[tvarad]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: venkman
I'm surprised India and Israel don't form a strong alliance to battle against Palestine and Pakistan. It seems like the two countries are in very similar situations (democracies fighting crazy, govt sponsored religious nuts) and their militaries could compliment each other.

India and Israel do have some type of strong bond, but India has an even stronger bond with the Arab world. India is highly respected in the Arab world. That's why the only Muslims against India are Pakistani. Everyone else sees India as a friend (this was especially true during the Cold War when India refused to take sides).

Very true. India has cordial relations with almost all muslim countries except the half-baked one next door that is causing so much heartburn for us and the rest of the world. India's freedom fight was an inspiration to many of them to shake of the colonial yoke. I remember the late Bulent Ecevit of Turkey spouting poems by Rabindranath Tagore when he visited India as PM when he was alive. India's friendship with Israel has not come at the expense of the strong support for Palestinians through history.

 

[filetitan]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Must really suck, living in such a pathetic shit-hole, huh?

you give the rest of us a bad name.

 

[filetitan]

a

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: filetitan

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Must really suck, living in such a pathetic shit-hole, huh?

you give the rest of us a bad name.

No, not really.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Some of you Americans have been filled with hate against us muslims. To hell with calling yourselves secular. You hate us because of our religion. And not because of what you know about it. You hate us because of what your media tells you. Oppressors live short lives.

You seem to have issues with understanding what is secular and what is not. People as individuals are not necessarily secular. That should be obvious to most people, but somehow you don't seem to understand such a basic concept.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: crisscross

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: tvarad

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
India can go ahead and attack Pakistan.

They will have to accept that their 15 major cities will be nuked out ruins.

Pakistan is going to lose no matter what in a war. Unless they can lightning blitz the Indian army into nothingness, they have no chance in a conventional war. However, the game changes drastically when India knows that it's 15 major cities will be nuked. This is nothing but posturing.

The Pakistani army is populated by a bunch of cowards. Whenever their monkey tactics of tweaking the elephants tail have elicited a response, like in 1965, 1971, 1999 what have they done? Either they've turned tail, surrendered en-masse or plain dropped their trousers and showed their a*ses for the whupping to come.

Your bravado doesn't amount to squat.

err, talk about the point going over your head.

I agreed with you, the Pakistani army cannot win in a fight against India. It doesn't have to, because India's top 15 cities will get nuked, along with Pakistan's cities after that. Nukes turn a win-lose situation (eg India wins, Pakistan loses) into a lose-lose situation (both India and Pakistan lose). Pakistan has nothing to lose if war comes to the sub-continent. India has everything to lose because instead of 20,000 soldiers dying, you have 500 million people dying.

It doesn't matter how powerful or how weak your army is, the threat of losing 500 million people and ruining the lives of the other 700 million people is simply too great a loss.

hmm just because both countries have nukes doesn't mean that they will use it. India and Pak went to war in 1999 when Pakistan attacked India and it did not end with Nukes. What India is talking about is a limited assault on terrorist camps not a full fledged war.

They can not bomb Pakistan proper and not expect any retaliation. That was a war for land. This would be an attack "for other reasons." India has many terrorists that are wanted by Pakistan. Does that mean if they bomb alleged anti-India camps in Pakistan we get to do the same on the other side of the border? And since most of that is sponsored by their government we get to bomb them too?

The problem with discussing India - Pak relations on this board is because most people here are biased against Pakistan because of the situation in Afghanistan. India =! USA in anyway. They claim to be the biggest democracy in the world and yet fail to hold a plebiscite in Kashmir.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
They can not bomb Pakistan proper and not expect any retaliation. That was a war for land. This would be an attack "for other reasons." India has many terrorists that are wanted by Pakistan. Does that mean if they bomb alleged anti-India camps in Pakistan we get to do the same on the other side of the border? And since most of that is sponsored by their government we get to bomb them too?

The problem with discussing India - Pak relations on this board is because most people here are biased against Pakistan because of the situation in Afghanistan. India =! USA in anyway. They claim to be the biggest democracy in the world and yet fail to hold a plebiscite in Kashmir.

Most people are 'biased' against Pakistan because it's a pretty horrible and general failure of a country. I don't believe that most people equate Pakistan with Afghanistan.

Furthermore, holding or not holding a plebiscite has nothing to do with a country as a whole being democratic. You have fairly poor logical reasoning skills. It's quite alarming.

India could probably do some small unilateral strikes within Pakistan and Pakistan will probably not be able to do anything about it. Pakistan cannot control its own territory and cannot put out a good faith effort to control extremist elements in its territory. Pakistan is also too weak compared to India as a whole and it's already on the brink of collapse.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Most people are 'biased' against Pakistan because it's a pretty horrible and general failure of a country. I don't believe that most people equate Pakistan with Afghanistan.

Have you been to Pakistan?

India could probably do some small unilateral strikes within Pakistan and Pakistan will probably not be able to do anything about it. Pakistan cannot control its own territory and cannot put out a good faith effort to control extremist elements in its territory. Pakistan is also too weak compared to India as a whole and it's already on the brink of collapse.

We will probably avenge the strikes by striking at their illegal dams built in violation of the Indus Water Treaty.

 

[The Green Bean]

Indian army officers were behing 2007 Samjhota express bombings.

The attack was first blamed on Islamic militants from Pakistan. New invesigations in November 2008 links the blasts to the western India bombings in the same year carried out by an Indian Army colonel.[39] Police from Haryana arrived in Mumbai to question the suspect in the latter case, Lieutenant Colonel Prasad Shrikant Purohit and sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, with possible connections to the attack. The two names came up after it was established that the suitcase bombs, which blew up the two bogies of the express train were assembled in Indore.[40] In Chandigarh, the Inspector General (Railway Police), K K Mishra, said that "our investigations in the Samjhauta probe had led us to Indore after we got clues that the suitcases and stitchings on them which were used in the explosions were procured from Indore."[41] India said it may share with Pakistan the latest developments in its investigations into the blasts.[42]

As usual they blamed Islamic Militants just like this time. Pathetic liars these people are.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Sewers smell like shit

Have you been to a sewer?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Sewers smell like shit

Have you been to a sewer?

Mods; please ban this pig.

 

[JS80]

India should indirectly fund a terrorist group and attack Pakistan then hold the suspects in India and not hand them over to Pakistan. That will show them.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Some of you Americans have been filled with hate against us muslims. To hell with calling yourselves secular. You hate us because of our religion. And not because of what you know about it. You hate us because of what your media tells you. Oppressors live short lives.

lol you can't be fucking serious.

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Indian army officers were behing 2007 Samjhota express bombings.

The attack was first blamed on Islamic militants from Pakistan. New invesigations in November 2008 links the blasts to the western India bombings in the same year carried out by an Indian Army colonel.[39] Police from Haryana arrived in Mumbai to question the suspect in the latter case, Lieutenant Colonel Prasad Shrikant Purohit and sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, with possible connections to the attack. The two names came up after it was established that the suitcase bombs, which blew up the two bogies of the express train were assembled in Indore.[40] In Chandigarh, the Inspector General (Railway Police), K K Mishra, said that "our investigations in the Samjhauta probe had led us to Indore after we got clues that the suitcases and stitchings on them which were used in the explosions were procured from Indore."[41] India said it may share with Pakistan the latest developments in its investigations into the blasts.[42]

As usual they blamed Islamic Militants just like this time. Pathetic liars these people are.

Since the last 200 or so terrorist attacks were carried out by Islamic militants, forgive us for thinking this one could have been too. And I like the way you totally ignored the fact that a legitimate investigation actually uncovered the true culprits of the attack. If your confused worldview were true, this would be buried under the carpet and have never come out.

On the other hand, here we have multipe agencies agreeing that Kasab is a Pakistani. You accepted it in one of your own posts. Yet there is no retraction from any official parties in your government.

As for your repeated "news" postings, Do you really want to start a link war? Pakistan isn't known for treating its minorities gently. Do we really need to go over the atrocities Pakistan committed in Bangladesh? Instead of intelligent debate, I see gossip-esque commentary that likens investigation to Bollywood. Is this your idea of well informed news? You talk about the lying Indian media, yet trust everything printed in your papers. And you're supposed to be one of the educated elite of Pakistan. God help you guys.

And I hope India doesn't start a war with Pakistan. We need to focus on our internal development first, strengthening security and making sure our economic process is unhindered.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: nixium

educated elite of Pakistan

hah ultimate oxymoron

 

[cirrrocco]

Originally posted by: nixium
..........
And I hope India doesn't start a war with Pakistan. We need to focus on our internal development first, strengthening security and making sure our economic process is unhindered.

I think India needs to solve the pakistan problem once and for all. No one is going to come to India's aid. sooner or later a dirty bomb is gonna explode and pakistan is still gonna blame non state actors and absolve themselves. This is keep on going to happen until India solves the beloved patriot problem once and for all.

 

[palehorse]

I think the most disturbing trend here is TGB's continued denial of Pakistan's central role in the export of global terrorism. It's disgusting.

The only thing Pakistan has to offer the modern world is terrorism. That will have to end soon -- one way, or another...

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: crisscross

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: tvarad

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
India can go ahead and attack Pakistan.

They will have to accept that their 15 major cities will be nuked out ruins.

Pakistan is going to lose no matter what in a war. Unless they can lightning blitz the Indian army into nothingness, they have no chance in a conventional war. However, the game changes drastically when India knows that it's 15 major cities will be nuked. This is nothing but posturing.

The Pakistani army is populated by a bunch of cowards. Whenever their monkey tactics of tweaking the elephants tail have elicited a response, like in 1965, 1971, 1999 what have they done? Either they've turned tail, surrendered en-masse or plain dropped their trousers and showed their a*ses for the whupping to come.

Your bravado doesn't amount to squat.

err, talk about the point going over your head.

I agreed with you, the Pakistani army cannot win in a fight against India. It doesn't have to, because India's top 15 cities will get nuked, along with Pakistan's cities after that. Nukes turn a win-lose situation (eg India wins, Pakistan loses) into a lose-lose situation (both India and Pakistan lose). Pakistan has nothing to lose if war comes to the sub-continent. India has everything to lose because instead of 20,000 soldiers dying, you have 500 million people dying.

It doesn't matter how powerful or how weak your army is, the threat of losing 500 million people and ruining the lives of the other 700 million people is simply too great a loss.

hmm just because both countries have nukes doesn't mean that they will use it. India and Pak went to war in 1999 when Pakistan attacked India and it did not end with Nukes. What India is talking about is a limited assault on terrorist camps not a full fledged war.

That may be the case, but the cynic in me says that India is making a power play on the sub-continent. There is no love lost between the two countries, despite both countries wanting to improve relations. Pakistan, rightfully, is wary of India's actions, just as India is wary of Pakistan's actions. A war at this time would prove catastrophic for both sides.

Secondly, Pakistan is trying to clean house, but the ISI just has too much power. This stems from the CIA's involvement during the Cold War, in which the ISI was seen as a major mover against India and the Soviet Union. We forget now, but there was a real concern that India would go communist due to Chinese/Soviet influences, as well as their own leftist leaning government.

 

[Muse]

Green bean:

You must realize that Indians want to put pressure on Pakistanis to rid themselves of terrorist organizations. Assuming this attack was launched from Pakistan (I believe it was established that they made off from Karachi), which I think is very probable if not already certain, it's clear that the kind of training and support that was involved in the Mumbai attack could not have happened if Pakistan was at its roots anti-terrorist. I have no reason to doubt the prevailing opinion that Pakistani military people had much to do with the attack.

So, if you can accept the fact that Indians feel the need to pressure Pakistan, just how do you think they can do this? By writing opinion pieces in newspapers?