In 3 sentences or less, your argument on religion...

[Pens1566]

Unchanged? At least be honest, please.

Completely unchanged? No. But not exactly different in any meaningful way. Play semantics if you wish, many people still cling to what is essentially the same views from 1k yrs ago.

I feel a cold coming on, maybe I need a good bloodletting ...

 

[Mursilis]

If the general public had an attitude like ATOT, I would be crying tears of joy. Sadly we live in a country full of credulous bible-thumping dumbasses who have always swallowed whatever their parents/preachers throw at them without a second thought. Skepticism and critical thinking really should be taught at the elementary school level.

You need to look harder at that genie you wish to uncork. Many contend that a religion-free world would of course be a better world (whatever better means), but where's the proof of that? Nietzsche's vision of a post-Christian world was pretty bleak, for example. What if moral nihilism becomes the new norm?
"The stronger becomes master of the weaker, in so far as the latter cannot assert its degree of independence; here there is no mercy, no forbearance, even less a respect for "laws."" - Will to Power.
That sure beats that "Love thy neighbor" crap!

 

[zsdersw]

You need to look harder at that genie you wish to uncork. Many contend that a religion-free world would of course be a better world (whatever better means), but where's the proof of that? Nietzsche's vision of a post-Christian world was pretty bleak, for example. What if moral nihilism becomes the new norm?
"The stronger becomes master of the weaker, in so far as the latter cannot assert its degree of independence; here there is no mercy, no forbearance, even less a respect for "laws."" - Will to Power.
That sure beats that "Love thy neighbor" crap!

There's no proof that a religion-free world wouldn't be a better world, either.

 

[totalnoob]

You need to look harder at that genie you wish to uncork. Many contend that a religion-free world would of course be a better world (whatever better means), but where's the proof of that? Nietzsche's vision of a post-Christian world was pretty bleak, for example. What if moral nihilism becomes the new norm?

So lack of religion = pro-nihilism? Where do you get that idea?

 

[Mursilis]

There's no proof that a religion-free world wouldn't be a better world, either.

Maybe, but then, I'm not the one who said I'd shed "tears of joy" if we had one, either.

Realistically though, why wouldn't we return to our animal nature? We are, after all, merely animals. In nature, the strong prey on the weak, and survival is the only morality.

 

[Moonbeam]

There is no valid proof for the existence of a deity or deities

There is no valid proof for the non-existence of a deity or deities.

Therefore the only logical position is neutrality and to live and let live.

This is very ecumenical and generous of you but it doesn't really make sense. You have bought into the ridiculous religious belief that God is some mystical being like the tooth fairy. But thereby belief in God is as absurd as believing in the tooth fairy and the Atheists win the case. The fact is that no valid proof for the existence or non existence of deities exists for you and all who think like you. To know God is no different than to know via science. Proof comes via the scientific method, the only difference being that folk have no training in the science of religion and have, therefore, no realizations or awakenings. As absurd as primitive folk are to modern science, so too is modern science absurd to those who know science of a more advanced form.

 

[BigDH01]

Maybe, but then, I'm not the one who said I'd shed "tears of joy" if we had one, either.

Realistically though, why wouldn't we return to our animal nature? We are, after all, merely animals. In nature, the strong prey on the weak, and survival is the only morality.

I don't think the animal nature ever went away. It's not like the post-Christian Dark Ages of Europe were a bastion of freedom and love. Religion is just another tool that can be used to manipulate and justify. If it's not religion then it's race, resources, culture, etc, etc. Humans are just primitive beings living in modernity.

 

[zsdersw]

Realistically though, why wouldn't we return to our animal nature? We are, after all, merely animals. In nature, the strong prey on the weak, and survival is the only morality.

Your premise is predicated on the belief that it is religion that provides or sustains our morality. On what do you base that belief? Is there nothing of any permanence that could possibly be a cause of our morality?

 

[Mursilis]

Your premise is predicated on the belief that it is religion that provides or sustains our morality. On what do you base that belief? Is there nothing of any permanence that could possibly be a cause of our morality?

As a historical matter, most of the major religions have had a huge influence on the collective morality of the societies in which they are practiced. I'm just stating that as a factual matter, not an endorsement. Of course there can be other bases.

 

[LumbergTech]

This is very ecumenical and generous of you but it doesn't really make sense. You have bought into the ridiculous religious belief that God is some mystical being like the tooth fairy. But thereby belief in God is as absurd as believing in the tooth fairy and the Atheists win the case. The fact is that no valid proof for the existence or non existence of deities exists for you and all who think like you. To know God is no different than to know via science. Proof comes via the scientific method, the only difference being that folk have no training in the science of religion and have, therefore, no realizations or awakenings. As absurd as primitive folk are to modern science, so too is modern science absurd to those who know science of a more advanced form.

what you are talking about is not god

and there is no good reason to insist on calling it that

 

[MJinZ]

As a historical matter, most of the major religions have had a huge influence on the collective morality of the societies in which they are practiced. I'm just stating that as a factual matter, not an endorsement. Of course there can be other bases.

If you can't figure out that Man (an Animal, that had learned to read, write and speak) had set the moral standards written in Bibles, you really are pretty damn stupid.

Yes, morality derives from animals. What, we aren't animals now?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

If you can't figure out that Man (an Animal, that had learned to read, write and speak) had set the moral standards written in Bibles, you really are pretty damn stupid.

Yes, morality derives from animals. What, we aren't animals now?

I think you are...does that help?

 

[sandorski]

Suggest you read the Bible from Cover to Cover.

I think a lot of people on this forum just want an excuse for all their immorality. They would rather make themselves their own God, or worship material things.

That really does not help the cause of Religion. It actually hurts it.

 

[Adrenaline]

There is a lot of life on this planet that is vastly different from one another. I can't believe (it doesn't make sense to me) everything evolved from the simplest of things to what it is now. There has to be more to this planet than evolution and that comes down to faith in a higher being to me, which is God.

I feel I worded this right but if I did not, oh well.

 

[PricklyPete]

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
-Stephen F Roberts

 

[Moonbeam]

If you can't figure out that Man (an Animal, that had learned to read, write and speak) had set the moral standards written in Bibles, you really are pretty damn stupid.

If that's what you read in his post then, you really are, well you know the drill.

 

[totalnoob]

Suggest you read the Bible from Cover to Cover.

This is literally the best advice I've seen all day.. Start with page one and keep reading. Most preachers skip over the horrific and gruesome aspects of the God in the bible. Reading the whole thing rather than just excerpting the nice bits is guaranteed to turn 80% of believers into atheists.

 

[irishScott]

Common sense rules above all, whatever you believe. God and faith alone are not justifications for actions that affect others. Let your faith be a side effect of who you are, not the other way around.

<------Deist

 

[dpearson]

Can we stop the personal attacks? They do more to damage your own credibility than disprove your opponent.

 

[spittledip]

1. Meaning, existence, morality, etc cannot be explained without God in any rational manner.
2. For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
3. All the fulfilled prophecy- especially the most recent stuff.

 

[UberNeuman]

What does God need with a starship?

 

[Perknose]

what you are talking about is not god

and there is no good reason to insist on calling it that

Says you!

There is no good reason for you to insist that Moonie's God concept must conform to your God concept, whatever the hell your God concept is!

Have your own concept of God, I don't care, but to stupidly say that another's concept is flat out "not God" is the kind of arrogant, narrow minded hubris that has driven the professed atheists here to their anger and disgust with "religion."

 

[Moonbeam]

1. Meaning, existence, morality, etc cannot be explained without God in any rational manner.
2. For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
3. All the fulfilled prophecy- especially the most recent stuff.

OK that's just great. Now could you please then explain existence, morality, etc, rationally to me? I get so confused.

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

credo ut intelligam

 

[glenn1]

I was talking to a hardcore christian today, having a peaceful discussion about both of our views. I want to keep this thread peaceful also. Not looking for discussion per se, but your arguments on why you believe or don't believe in a god, and fairly brief, just a few sentences. I'd like to hear what people think is most important in their beliefs. I know P&N has not the greatest reputation and I don't venture here often so I don't know what to expect. Some respect would be nice. If you think its a stupid thread, feel free to move on and not waste your time on it

Explaining why I have belief would be like explaining why I love my wife - it's easier to describe the effects on me than the reasons for it. In both cases, it's something that makes me a better person; more sharing, less selfish, and a generally happier and more grounded person. Faith doesn't make me a better person, rather makes me want to become a better person.