Discussion Impeachment

Page 14 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,430
6,089
126
Are we there yet. Do we see that for the sake of national security we have to impeach? The only way for Trump to regain mental health is if he self immolate his ego. He will have a powerful unconscious wish to force on himself profound humiliation. He will drive us to impeach him. Give him what he secretly craves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tweaker2

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,430
6,089
126
But those are good things.
Apparently, however, some Democrats still seem to think it is to their political advantage to allow him to use a white napkin to wipe his chin and shit later on his golden toilet. You know, just using common sense. Impeachment would divide the country........ When will Democrats learn that Republicans will worship you if you kick them in the teeth. They have Stockholm Syndrome.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dank69

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Apparently, however, some Democrats still seem to think it is to their political advantage to allow him to use a white napkin to wipe his chin and shit later on his golden toilet. You know, just using common sense. Impeachment would divide the country........ When will Democrats learn that Republicans will worship you if you kick them in the teeth. They have Stockholm Syndrome.

Meh. I figure some dynamite Congressional testimony over the next few months will force impeachment in ways that a dry & misrepresented 400 page report doesn't.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Apparently, however, some Democrats still seem to think it is to their political advantage to allow him to use a white napkin to wipe his chin and shit later on his golden toilet. You know, just using common sense. Impeachment would divide the country........ When will Democrats learn that Republicans will worship you if you kick them in the teeth. They have Stockholm Syndrome.

The country is already divided in case you hadn't noticed. ( i might have misread your intent here).
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,287
36,411
136
When it comes to impeachment, the name Elizabeth Drew comes to mind (of Watergate fame). She's dabbled.

And here she is having the same concerns I posted sometime last week. Impeach Trump

I accept that there are political uncertainties and risk for the Dems moving to an impeachment, I just think the danger of not impeaching may be worse.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
When it comes to impeachment, the name Elizabeth Drew comes to mind (of Watergate fame). She's dabbled.

And here she is having the same concerns I posted sometime last week. Impeach Trump

I accept that there are political uncertainties and risk for the Dems moving to an impeachment, I just think the danger of not impeaching may be worse.


Things are moving quickly these days. At this point I think the time is right very soon depending on how the WH responds to lawful subpoenas for which there is no sound legal reason to ignore combined with the AG's support of unconstitutional policies to protect Trump. A month, maybe two perhaps and we might be good. Pelosi is always a concern as it's hard to know what the political animal will do. She's still in the "impeachment isn't a good thing and there are other approaches" mode. Whether that's sincere or a clever lie (don't get upset apologists, diversion and deception are items in the political tool box since humans started interacting and not a slam but a factual observation and occasionally necessary when dealing with an enemy), remeans to be seen.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,287
36,411
136
Things are moving quickly these days. At this point I think the time is right very soon depending on how the WH responds to lawful subpoenas for which there is no sound legal reason to ignore combined with the AG's support of unconstitutional policies to protect Trump. A month, maybe two perhaps and we might be good. Pelosi is always a concern as it's hard to know what the political animal will do. She's still in the "impeachment isn't a good thing and there are other approaches" mode. Whether that's sincere or a clever lie (don't get upset apologists, diversion and deception are items in the political tool box since humans started interacting and not a slam but a factual observation and occasionally necessary when dealing with an enemy), remeans to be seen.

True. Sometimes I forget she pretty much holds all the strings here, and I won't disagree she has plenty of cause to be both wary and bold.

Oh if only republicans weren't craven, spineless, weak party-before-country drones. This could all proceed like it's supposed to and we could get back to fixing things that aren't self-inflicted.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,461
7,636
136
It only makes sense to do it if the national mood is that it has to be done, not that it's merely partisan spite like the well-poisoning Clinton episode. According to polls, the American public is still cool to impeachment.

Just like the shutdown, Pelosi wants to make sure that if she has to do the unpopular thing then she wants Trump to take the blame. If ALL the evidence is made available to the public and it can be made publicly accepted that Trump's lawsuits blocking subpoenas are forcing the impeachment, then I would be on board.

Trump should be impeached and it is disgraceful that this is even a question. This incompetent buffoon should have been impeached the day he stepped into the Oval Office. It is a sad state of affairs that somebody so deserving of impeachment can avoid it, solely because of political considerations.

But...Trump wants to be impeached, as soon as possible. The sooner he can get the impeachment hearings to McConnell, the better

Rather than impeachment, at this time, targeted hearings into Trump's wrongdoing will be helpful to the goal of getting rid of Trump. Hearings on every possible slimy facet of Trump's political, personal and public life. Benghazi the shit out of him.

I believe any sort of hearings McConnell might hold in the Senate - likely testimonials from "faith leaders" and other people willing to say that Trump is the most wonderful person walking the earth, etc. are going to be unhelpful to the goal of getting rid of Trump. Many on the left might assume that masses of Americans would react to such 'hearings' with disgust, but the fact is that masses of Americans aren't paying much attention to Trump's shenanigans, masses of Americans think Trumps disgusting but don't care and would take laudatory 'hearings' at face value. There are as many people who see impeachment as nothing more than an attempt to reverse the election results of 2016 and therefore oppose it. The "mealy-mouthed middle". These people don't care that Trump breaks the law.

It's very possible that sending articles of impeachment to the Senate would result in a vote of acquittal for Trump, which would be enormously helpful to Trump due to the large numbers of 'not paying much attention' voters as well as Trump's base. It's very possible that enabling a quick acquittal vote would be unhelpful in the main goal of getting rid of Trump. So, if by "the impeachment process" you mean a House vote to impeach, and then a Senate vote to acquit: no don't think that would harm Trump. But if you mean extensive, targeted hearings in the House, then, yes, I think that could harm Trump.

Pelosi has chosen what appears to be an unpopular track with the left. She does not want to cede the ground of impeachment to the Senate, where they can hold competing "impeachment" hearings while she simultaneously conducts "oversight" hearings. Once she loses control of the process, there is no coming back from her choice. I'm sure McConnell has some nasty trick up his sleeve to circumvent an honest impeachment/removal process. I suspect Pelosi is aware he does, too. And perhaps that explains her choices. Is she a "coward"?

There are two basic positions:

1. The House should vote to impeach as soon as possible and trial in the Senate should start as soon as possible for various reasons of varying degrees of respectability and veracity, including 'the only other alternative is to do nothing'.

2. The House should not take impeachment off the table, but should concentrate on first informing the public about wrongdoing by Trump and his administration, including coordination with Russia, being compromised by Russia and other foreign nations, emolument-clause violations, security clearance procedure violations, constitutional violations and so on.

Can I absolutely say with certainty that Mitch McConnell wouldn't allow a vote? Maybe not, but I can guarantee you that, as of this moment, he wouldn't allow anything approaching a legitimate trial to take place in the senate should impeachment fall into his lap.

Trump is damaged pretty badly in the House but McConnell is still relatively confident that he can keep the Senate, then there will be no trial. He'll sweep it under the rug and move on. If he believes that Trump is so radioactive that he might lose the Senate, then I could see him allowing a trial, but right now, I just don't see it. As long as McConnell is confident of keeping the Senate, he will protect Trump, either with a sham "trial" or no trial at all.

McConnell will protect Trump so long as protecting Trump protects McConnell
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthKyrie

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,592
29,221
146
The President can claim presidential Privilege and just not answer any questions. He can also stop Congress from asking any members of his staff about anything he discussed. It is hard to get through that.

no he can't.

of course the funny thing is, I wonder how many years back and how many posts of yours that we can dig up where you labeled Obama an evil God emperor dictator for supposedly no more than half the nonsense that you claim Trump is somehow especially privileged to do.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,287
36,411
136
Well just look at people like Slow: they support people that they closely identify with. It's a self-defeating cycle.

I try not to look at people like Slow. My faith in humanity is fragile enough already.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Here's a possibility. Barr says he might not show up to testify before the House because there would be a second hearing after the public one. Ok serve him with a subpoena and when he refuses then exercise lawful powers of arrest. Congress has resources to do this and let Trump fight it out in court to get Barr released and then impeach Barr. Consider him practice in spine building.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,287
36,411
136
I went after in Muller's cowardliness in some thread here and got booed.

I will admit that I placed too much faith in Mueller. He may be an institutionalist, but I don't consider that mutually exclusive to doing the job he had to do. Feckless punt was right on the money.

Related to subject, I hear Trump passed another tremendous milestone today: 10,000 lies in 827 days in office. Way to go Team Treason, we always knew you had it in you.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,430
6,089
126
I will admit that I placed too much faith in Mueller. He may be an institutionalist, but I don't consider that mutually exclusive to doing the job he had to do. Feckless punt was right on the money.

Related to subject, I hear Trump passed another tremendous milestone today: 10,000 lies in 827 days in office. Way to go Team Treason, we always knew you had it in you.
We live in a competitive system that hardens people's empathy allowing them many outlets that encourage the expression of contempt of others and to create those others by joining up with some team. In this way we deal with our own pain by inflicting it on others and life is full of suffering so there is an endless supply of pain.

This is why the idea of selflessness is so important and put forward in all real religions. It is the ego that creates suffering by erecting a wall against pain, the pain of losing at playing a sick game. To awaken is to see that it wasn't the self that was a failure but that we were asked to play a sick game

The greater the pain that we carry and successfully consciously suppress, the more we will enjoy the suffering of others and the more we will enjoy causing it.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,431
10,327
136
no he can't.

of course the funny thing is, I wonder how many years back and how many posts of yours that we can dig up where you labeled Obama an evil God emperor dictator for supposedly no more than half the nonsense that you claim Trump is somehow especially privileged to do.
I guess it's campaign season. I've noticed his recent musings.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,287
36,411
136
Great oped over at The Atlantic by Benjamin Wittes

Many good points, none of which are good for Trump. The counter intel damage is just cringe worthy to contemplate. These many Russian connections for a guy who really has a bad case of insecure device love, also penchant for overriding security clearances for people who don't deserve them, just wow. Bad time to lose senior people with experience. The attempts of obstruction are hard to dispute, except by idiots trying to play semantic games. I guess why bother stressing about the SVR when you can go tell Putin yourself, and take his word over that of American professionals a la Handjob in Helsinki.

"For what it’s worth, here’s what I see in the story Mueller has told on Trump engagement with the Russians over the hacking. I see a group of people for whom partisan polarization wholly and completely defeated patriotism. I see a group of people so completely convinced Hillary Clinton was the enemy that they were willing to make common cause with an actual adversary power who was attacking their country to defeat her. To me, it matters whether the conduct violated the law only in the pedestrian sense of determining the available remedies for it—and in guiding whether and how we might have to change our laws to prevent such conduct in the future. I don’t know the right word for this pattern of conduct. It’s not collusion, though it may involve some measure of collusion. It’s not coordination or conspiracy. But in Clinton, Democrats, and liberals, the Trump campaign saw a sufficiently irreconcilable enemy that it looked at Vladimir Putin and saw a partner. That may not be a crime, but it is a very deep betrayal."


I thought "Keystone Kollusion" hit the nail on the head pretty well.
 
Last edited:

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,431
10,327
136
Adam Schiff makes referral to DOYJ for Erik Prince for lying to congress. Seems his tale to congress differs quite a bit from what Mueller found out.

Secret back channel
 
Last edited: