shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,081
- 136
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,242
- 14,243
- 136
Yes, that is the problem with that language. It doesn't say how it's determined. I think a censure properly worded would do the trick. Then they pass a bill barring him from office. And yes, he'd likely be able to challenge it in court.
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,242
- 14,243
- 136
Yes, I have two very good friends (elderly women, both) who are Trump supporters and watch Hannity and Carlson almost every night.
Trump supporters deify the man. That is why they believe he couldn't lose unless it was rigged. They just love the man so much, they just assume everyone else does too, except maybe a radical left fringe.
Make no mistake though, they are factually wrong about this, and entirely delusional about Trump. There are indeed two information bubbles, but the left's bubble is a lot closer to reality. That is where the problem lies.
If both sides were half right/half wrong and the truth lay somewhere midway between, it would be a lot easier to dialogue and work things out. The problem with the right is they're nearly 100% wrong yet they believe this false narrative with total conviction. There really doesn't seem to be any path forward when that is what we're facing.
HomerJS
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2002
- 39,317
- 32,823
- 136
Dems need to call witnesses in particular that Republican Congressperson who witnessed McCarthy.
Vote time have multiple question. Don't let GOP hide behind process. Issue of Constitutionality was ruled on so it does not count. Make Republicans vote on the merits of the evidence and ask them are they committing jury nullification. It is their right to do just like petit jurors but make them own it. "Yeah we know Trump did it but we are voting not guilty anyway"
Trump refusing to send help when McCarthy begged him is dereliction of duty and is impeachable on its own
Vote time have multiple question. Don't let GOP hide behind process. Issue of Constitutionality was ruled on so it does not count. Make Republicans vote on the merits of the evidence and ask them are they committing jury nullification. It is their right to do just like petit jurors but make them own it. "Yeah we know Trump did it but we are voting not guilty anyway"
Trump refusing to send help when McCarthy begged him is dereliction of duty and is impeachable on its own
nOOky
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2004
- 3,260
- 2,346
- 136
Others disagree with that theory.
Democrat: GOP colleagues say they’re ‘afraid for their lives’ if they vote to impeach Trump
Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colo.) said Republicans he spoke with on Tuesday evening wept and told him they fear for their personal safety as they weigh whether to vote in favor of impeachment of …
thehill.com
Torn Mind
Lifer
- Nov 25, 2012
- 12,078
- 2,772
- 136
This is a hindsight analysis.
I highly doubt even Trump himself was assured that he had a sure shot at winning in 2016 , or if he could garner 25% of the primary votes. The more plausible explanation was that he was disrupt the Republican field enough so Hillary could cakewalk the Bush, Cruz, or Rubio that was expected to win the primary. The other "uncontrollable sheep" was Bernie, and his departure hit the inside of the Democratic Party with a wave of apathy due to how "fixed" it seemed. But he did have natural talent for two things: working media platforms to put his name out there and making people forget 99% of his backstory and focus solely on his words in total isolation. A rich real estate guy from New York, germophobe, reality tv star avoided getting "the corporate stereotype", the 1% stereotype, and "not one of us stereotype", "association with the Clintons" stigma, literally saying "I'm very pro-choice" in 1999, and becoming a meme.
Everything Trump does helps his enemies just as much his "apparent" allies. I wouldn't be surprised if private Trump was tired of being President and wanted to retire, but he had to hide the 4d-chessing he pulled off.
The "insurrection" was a blip on the radar and harmless to the American system. Presidents have been actually assassinated but the system did not fall and the replacement took over the job.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,626
- 46,298
- 136
Is there even anything remotely equivlenant on the left? About all I can come up with is the minority of Bernie supporters who thought he unfairly lost the 2016 Dem primary (which is not true), even then I don't think it approaches the same magnitude. If somebody can think of something I'd be open to the argument but defaulting into both-sidesing the left and the right to excuse the escalating right wing disinformation situation, which is effectively an alternate universe at this point, seems not only lazy but incorrect and increasingly dangerous.
There isn't except the hard core bernie bros who are very fringe. Ironically enough its exactly the behavior conservatives accused liberals of during the entirety of Obama's administration. Conservativism has become a movement of butt hurt projection.
When it's all said and done, the (R)'s will NOT vote to convict Trump...and he's just gonna waltz away...
Yeah , Yeah ... We know he won't be convicted and will most likely walk. Really, So fucking what!.... There are practical goals to be aiming for in a impeachment and especially acquittal.
Demonstrate to Trump and his followers, yet again, that we’re willing to drag his wrongdoing through the mud, even if he gets acquitted. He fears exposure as a failure and a fraud almost as much as jail. It’s good to keep that reminder permanently on his radar. It is also necessary because even if Trump and his facilitators will not actually be held to legal account, it makes the point that what was done will not be forgotten or swept away as a footnote. Trump will be recorded in history books as the first US President to be impeached twice, and the first to be impeached for inciting a riot that attacked Congress during confirmation of the electoral process.
Republican Senators need to be told that if they vote to acquit, they are giving complete and total unfettered power to one man. They know that Trump sent a mob over who was ready to kill anyone who got in their way. And they did kill. That one man could order a mob to attack any senator at any time. In their home state.
Republicans who vote to acquit will never again be able to say “This is how you got Trump”, nor pretend to be perturbed by his ongoing involvement in politics. As of now, they are how we got Trump, and they are how we might get Trump again. They will go on the record as owning him.
Push the Republicans into taking a side. The Managers should be using the impeachment trial to force the Republicans in the Senate to either declare their support for the riot or to declare their opposition to the riot. Either position hurts the Republicans with a portion of their base. The Republicans know this and are trying to avoid having to take a position. But refusing to take a position is making the Republicans look weak and is hurting their image. This impeachment is more about making the Republicans pay for having supported Trump and his crimes for the last four years than it is about making Trump pay for them. Various state courts can punish Trump.
Keeps Jan 6th in the news cycle, which should weaken Republicans. This generates tons of material for 2022 attack ads. Republicans must now reckon with the fact that Trump may run again. Some will be content to hide under his skirt forever, but some of them most likely want to be President. They might be amenable to less-overt ways to knock Trump out of public office.
Tacit authorization of a criminal probe. Senate Republicans seem to be going with the message “this is a criminal matter, not political”. I don’t think they actually want that, but there’s nowhere left to pass the buck than the DOJ.
Reveals public opinion against Trump to any R senators who have kept their heads in the Fox news bubble.
Aquittal establishes a precedent that any President can more or less do what he wants between Nov. 4th and Jan 20th, free of accountability.
Fenixgoon
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2003
- 33,283
- 12,847
- 136
soundforbjt
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2002
- 17,788
- 6,041
- 136
Fenixgoon
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2003
- 33,283
- 12,847
- 136
Lindsey. Fucking. Graham. voted for witnesses
February 13, 2021 Trump impeachment trial news
The Senate voted Saturday to acquit former President Trump of inciting insurrection at the Capitol. Follow here for the latest.
Lindsey. Fucking. Graham. voted for witnesses
February 13, 2021 Trump impeachment trial news
The Senate voted Saturday to acquit former President Trump of inciting insurrection at the Capitol. Follow here for the latest.www.cnn.com
Only because he wants to carry this on longer than anyone wants. He threatened this a few weeks ago.
Lindsey Graham threatens to bring in FBI testimony if Democrats call witnesses in Trump impeachment trial
Donald Trump’s five-person legal team abruptly parted ways with the former president days before his Senate trial
www.independent.co.uk
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,242
- 14,243
- 136
No. Some of the most extreme Bernie supporters would be the best analogy, but I agree. It isn't even close.
Something about Trump. It's almost as if from the moment he descended that escalator in 2015, they were enthralled. I mean, all Trump has done is lie to them from day one, and done nothing but that every day, every hour since. And his lies are transparent. They're obvious. Yet they believe every word the man says as an article of faith. Like he's some deity. I've never seen anything like it before and hopefully, after the man dies, we'll never see anything like it again in this country.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,626
- 46,298
- 136
Lindsey. Fucking. Graham. voted for witnesses
February 13, 2021 Trump impeachment trial news
The Senate voted Saturday to acquit former President Trump of inciting insurrection at the Capitol. Follow here for the latest.
He's threatening to call Pelosi and other people with the argument that they somehow failed to secure the capitol from the insurrection Trump spun up and pointed at congress.
Though that plan has problems since you need 51 votes to subpoena a witness.
Yes, this does not seem to be a particularly credible or well thought out threat.
woolfe9998
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2013
- 16,242
- 14,243
- 136
Are you kidding? The insurrection did not succeed, therefore it wasn't damaging? Trump lied to his supporters, made them believe an election had been stolen by an evil cabal of democrats who are trying to take away their freedom and their way of life. They were made to believe that democracy was destroyed by the left, and they still believe this. Tens of millions of Americans believe it, and you don't think that's a problem going forward?
You look at only the immediate effect of this insurrection and conclude, whelp, it failed, so who cares? How can you be so narrow minded?
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,626
- 46,298
- 136
soundforbjt
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2002
- 17,788
- 6,041
- 136
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,626
- 46,298
- 136
Best bet is the trial is paused for a month or so as witnesses are deposed. Buncha people across DC (and Palm Beach, FL) speed dialing their lawyers right now.
hal2kilo
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2009
- 26,036
- 12,272
- 136
Why don't they call the FBI then?Others disagree with that theory.
Democrat: GOP colleagues say they’re ‘afraid for their lives’ if they vote to impeach Trump
Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colo.) said Republicans he spoke with on Tuesday evening wept and told him they fear for their personal safety as they weigh whether to vote in favor of impeachment of …
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