I'm in tears right now...

[rh71]

The one person I knew about who got shipped to Iraq died ... and I hear about the family's heartbreak every week since then.

 

[torpid]

I agree with the sentiment, but your post is bleeding over with your own political beliefs. You could have just said that you admire and respect the soldiers who are just doing their job and may or may not die as a result of it.

It has nothing to do with questioning motives and evidence. To do so is our obligation as free thinking and freedom seeking human beings. If we take everything everyone says at face value and never examine it, we will be in very serious trouble. Regardless of what you eventually decide, I think it is critical to actually look at both sides of this issue, the evidence, the numbers, etc. Only then can you make a somewhat rational decision as to whether the war is worth it or not.

The tone of discourse may be disturbing in the mass media, but there are plenty of bright, articulate leaders who are speaking on these issues and making good points on both sides. To say that they ought not be speaking out for or against the war is downright insulting.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: ucdbiendog
the war in iraq is stupid. i still support our troops, just not the war. the sad part is that it isnt going to end anytime soon 🙁

So basically you are saying you supported the rape and murder of Iraqis by their former leaders?

 

[simms]

Originally posted by: phreakah
we enjoy war. and one reason we enjoy it is that we're good at it. you know why we're good at it? because we get alot of practice. this country is only 200 years old, and already we've had ten major wars. we average a major war every twenty years, so we're good at it! and it's just as well we are, because we're not very good at anything else. can't build a decent car anymore. can't make a tv set, a cell phone, or a vcr. got no steel industry left. no textiles. can't educate our young people. can't get health care to our old people. but we can bomb the sh!t out of your country alright. we can bomb the sh!t out of your country! especially if your country is full of brown people. oh we like that don't we? that's our hobby now. but it's also our new job in the world: bombing brown people. iraq, panama, grenada, libya. you got some brown people in your country? tell em to watch the fvck out, or we'll goddamn bomb them! well who were the last white people you can remember that we bombed? in fact, can you remember any white people we ever bombed? the germans! that's it. those are the only ones. and that was only because they were tryin to cut in our action. they wanted to dominate the world. bullsh!t! that's our job! that's our fvckin job!

- george carlin

wow, that's awesome... if bush said this i wonder what would happen to the country.

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: torpid
I agree with the sentiment, but your post is bleeding over with your own political beliefs. You could have just said that you admire and respect the soldiers who are just doing their job and may or may not die as a result of it.

It has nothing to do with questioning motives and evidence. To do so is our obligation as free thinking and freedom seeking human beings. If we take everything everyone says at face value and never examine it, we will be in very serious trouble. Regardless of what you eventually decide, I think it is critical to actually look at both sides of this issue, the evidence, the numbers, etc. Only then can you make a somewhat rational decision as to whether the war is worth it or not.

The tone of discourse may be disturbing in the mass media, but there are plenty of bright, articulate leaders who are speaking on these issues and making good points on both sides. To say that they ought not be speaking out for or against the war is downright insulting.

Speak for or against the war if you want. That's why the soldiers serve. So you have that freedom. Just remember, you say you support the troops...to them you aren't.

 

[Rufio]

i've got buddies over there....

i've got buddies who are back....

And I am proud of them all.

 

[welst10]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: welst10

Originally posted by: Doboji
I am so disturbed and absolutely humbled by the sacrifice these men have made for the good of humanity.
-Max

I usually dont comment on politics. But this is just not what I would agree on. "for the good of humanity"? I'm fully convinced this war is for the control of oil, the vital blood of US and world economy, and not because of WMD and human rights BS they were talking about. They made sacrifice allright, but not "for the good of humanity".

Remind me again which countries had huge oil contracts with Saddam....psttt it wasn't the US.

Look, I am just going to direct you to this fact then I'm done with this topic, believe whatever you choose to, I dont care.

According to the US Energy Information Administration (EIA), "Iraq holds more than 112 billion barrels of oil - the world's second largest proven reserves. Iraq also contains 110 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, and is a focal point for regional and international security issues."

 

[Doboji]

I suppose I should have known this would happen....

My feeling that I attempted to portray is not whether war in Iraq is right or wrong... but that we as human beings should be ashamed of the fact that such a situation exists at all. And furthermore we should be so proud of these young men who are sacrificing EVERYTHING in order to try and correct this human tragedy. Whether you agree with the war or not, to give so much of yourself in trying to help is something beyond the word admirable could ever express.

Seeing these men in person absolutely floored me... and breached the politics...

-Max

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Doboji
I'm so upset and disturbed right now I can barely speak or type.

A few moments ago I passed by several dozen wounded soldiers missing arms, missing legs. These men are recently recovered from Iraq. I am so disturbed and absolutely humbled by the sacrifice these men have made for the good of humanity.

And I am so angry at all of humanity for our absolute selfishness with which we look upon Iraq, and other conflicts throughout the world. So often we hear of Bush this, Haliburton that, cheney this. But why were we so selfish to allow that question to even exist. Why is everyone in the world looking this situation throwing their hands up in the air, and saying "not my problem"... why are we living our cushy little lives, driving our cushy little cars, drinking beer and relaxing while so many of our young men are giving their lives and limbs for the good of humanity. How is it that we allow places like Iraq, and people like Saddam to exist?... Isn't it time for us to stand together, and get this mess cleaned up?... Shouldn't france, and germany, and every other country in the world step up to the plate and say this is a HUMAN problem. Put their fvcking troops on the ground, put their money to work, and clean up our own human mess? If everyone was involved there could be no question of motives... no stealing of oil.... the world has the power to set the goals of the mission and ensure the success. Iraq should be humanities mission, not just the US. But we're all too selfish...

I am ashamed right now, ashamed that I walk on two legs, have the use of both arms, can see with both eyes. Compared to these men I am nothing... all I can do is sit here and cry quietly to myself... In utter awe of these men, I will forever feel indebted to them... I am grateful for my small support position where I can do just a little something to support these larger than life heroes.

-Max

If more people felt like you do, perhaps our country would be a better place.

 

[ndee]

oh man, looking for excuses why America went alone to war? For some cultures, a democracy isn't the best thing. I'm not saying a dictator like Saddam is better but what currently happens in Iraq is a shame.

 

[BAMAVOO]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: BAMAVOO

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: BAMAVOO

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Wow, you are dead wrong.

It WASN'T our problem. ALL of our reasons for going to war were FALSE or EXAGGERATED.

Just because we decide to make a confict doesn't obligate the world to clean up our mess.

His statements were not political. IF ( A BIG GIANT IF) you were president, you would have made the same choice to attack. The evidence set forth to President Bush was an overwhelming, go get them. Even without the evidence, we are more than justified to go into Iraq and do what we have to do. Even your Precious Kerry was and still is FOR the war.

Okay, so why didn't we deal with someplace like Sudan first? The situation there makes Iraq look like Disneyland.

Because they were not and remain not to be a direct threat to our country.

Yes Bush can make and does make mistakes, but this is one battle you can not win with words.

Go to kerryoniraq.com and get what your choice for a leader thinks on the war.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

*sigh* Vintage Bamavoo.

/golf clap

Just to throw fuel on the fire...Remember Mogadishu?...they don't really like us too much. They have to get these weapons from somewhere why doesn't the UN place sanctians against the countries that are funneling in AK47's and explosives?

I think it would be far less of a problem if they did not have the ordinances that some developed/developing country is feeding off from

AWESOME, I am Vintage 😉

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: welst10

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: welst10

Originally posted by: Doboji
I am so disturbed and absolutely humbled by the sacrifice these men have made for the good of humanity.
-Max

I usually dont comment on politics. But this is just not what I would agree on. "for the good of humanity"? I'm fully convinced this war is for the control of oil, the vital blood of US and world economy, and not because of WMD and human rights BS they were talking about. They made sacrifice allright, but not "for the good of humanity".

Remind me again which countries had huge oil contracts with Saddam....psttt it wasn't the US.

Look, I am just going to direct you to this fact then I'm done with this topic, believe whatever you choose to, I dont care.

According to the US Energy Information Administration (EIA), "Iraq holds more than 112 billion barrels of oil - the world's second largest proven reserves. Iraq also contains 110 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, and is a focal point for regional and international security issues."

Talk about beating around the bush...you didn't even make it with 10 feet...Why not answer the question?

 

[xospec1alk]

Originally posted by: Doboji
My point here was not to argue about the war... my point here is to express my gratitude to these young maimed soldiers who do not quibble with politics... they unlike the rest of the arguing fools in this thread... are putting their lives where their mouth is... If the rest of us were as selfless as they... situations like Iraq simply wouldn't exist.

STOP THE FLAMES... this isn't about your political beliefs...

-Max

i dont know how selfless they are. i mean my impression is that most people joined during peacetime when the threat of going to war was very small. Also a lot of people joined up to get money for college and to get skills. NOT to fight in a war. i know thats why I considered joining up. granted they are over there now, and I support the troops, but i DO NOT support the war. I hurt everytime i hear another soldier went down. but honestly the US relaly needs to pull them out because the iraqis really dont want us there.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: xospec1alk

Originally posted by: Doboji
My point here was not to argue about the war... my point here is to express my gratitude to these young maimed soldiers who do not quibble with politics... they unlike the rest of the arguing fools in this thread... are putting their lives where their mouth is... If the rest of us were as selfless as they... situations like Iraq simply wouldn't exist.

STOP THE FLAMES... this isn't about your political beliefs...

-Max

i dont know how selfless they are. i mean my impression is that most people joined during peacetime when the threat of going to war was very small. Also a lot of people joined up to get money for college and to get skills. NOT to fight in a war. i know thats why I considered joining up. granted they are over there now, and I support the troops, but i DO NOT support the war. I hurt everytime i hear another soldier went down. but honestly the US relaly needs to pull them out because the iraqis really dont want us there.

What makes you think the Iraqi's don't want us there? Do you have friends in the Marines who went over there and know what they're fighting for? Do your friends from the Marines come back to tell you that they might not have supported the war, but the look and cheers they got rolling into town made them feel glad they did it? You're so biased b/c the media only chooses to show that we're getting shot at by some idiots, or a riot started showing people saying "Get out of the US". They never show the humanitarian side of the mission, or where people are actually glad we're there. If we pulled out now the men and women who have sacrified themselves for our country will have died in vain.

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: xospec1alk

Originally posted by: Doboji
My point here was not to argue about the war... my point here is to express my gratitude to these young maimed soldiers who do not quibble with politics... they unlike the rest of the arguing fools in this thread... are putting their lives where their mouth is... If the rest of us were as selfless as they... situations like Iraq simply wouldn't exist.

STOP THE FLAMES... this isn't about your political beliefs...

-Max

i dont know how selfless they are. i mean my impression is that most people joined during peacetime when the threat of going to war was very small. Also a lot of people joined up to get money for college and to get skills. NOT to fight in a war. i know thats why I considered joining up. granted they are over there now, and I support the troops, but i DO NOT support the war. I hurt everytime i hear another soldier went down. but honestly the US relaly needs to pull them out because the iraqis really dont want us there.

What makes you think the Iraqi's don't want us there? Do you have friends in the Marines who went over there and know what they're fighting for? Do your friends from the Marines come back to tell you that they might not have supported the war, but the look and cheers they got rolling into town made them feel glad they did it? You're so biased b/c the media only chooses to show that we're getting shot at by some idiots, or a riot started showing people saying "Get out of the US". They never show the humanitarian side of the mission, or where people are actually glad we're there. If we pulled out now the men and women who have sacrified themselves for our country will have died in vain.

You aren't supporting the troops by saying you don't support the war. It's offensive to them and tells them you don't value what they are doing.

 

[Ogg]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: KirbsAw

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Fausto
....and here comes the flamewar. :roll:

<---breaks out the hotdogs and marshmallows and cracks open a cold one...

Dammit....I really want a beer but I'm racing this weekend. 🙁

Then drink 5! 😀

Maybe Sunday after the races. GA state criterium championships is tomorrow....gotta be sharp for that one. 🙂

I think itll be alittle bit wet, eh............

do you have dry tires and rain tires like top level auto racing?

 

[Red Dawn]

It always amazes me how draft dodging Chickenhawks have no qualm sending our valiant soilders into harms way to prosecute their nefarious agendas!

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It always amazes me how draft dodging Chickenhawks have no qualm sending our valiant soilders into harms way to prosecute their nefarious agendas!

To whom might you be referring to?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It always amazes me how draft dodging Chickenhawks have no qualm sending our valiant soilders into harms way to prosecute their nefarious agendas!

To whom might you be referring to?

The Cscksucker in the Whitehouse and the Cscksuckers in his Administration

 

[imported_KirbsAw]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It always amazes me how draft dodging Chickenhawks have no qualm sending our valiant soilders into harms way to prosecute their nefarious agendas!

Indeed

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: xospec1alk

Originally posted by: Doboji
My point here was not to argue about the war... my point here is to express my gratitude to these young maimed soldiers who do not quibble with politics... they unlike the rest of the arguing fools in this thread... are putting their lives where their mouth is... If the rest of us were as selfless as they... situations like Iraq simply wouldn't exist.

STOP THE FLAMES... this isn't about your political beliefs...

-Max

i dont know how selfless they are. i mean my impression is that most people joined during peacetime when the threat of going to war was very small. Also a lot of people joined up to get money for college and to get skills. NOT to fight in a war. i know thats why I considered joining up. granted they are over there now, and I support the troops, but i DO NOT support the war. I hurt everytime i hear another soldier went down. but honestly the US relaly needs to pull them out because the iraqis really dont want us there.

What makes you think the Iraqi's don't want us there? Do you have friends in the Marines who went over there and know what they're fighting for? Do your friends from the Marines come back to tell you that they might not have supported the war, but the look and cheers they got rolling into town made them feel glad they did it? You're so biased b/c the media only chooses to show that we're getting shot at by some idiots, or a riot started showing people saying "Get out of the US". They never show the humanitarian side of the mission, or where people are actually glad we're there. If we pulled out now the men and women who have sacrified themselves for our country will have died in vain.

You aren't supporting the troops by saying you don't support the war. It's offensive to them and tells them you don't value what they are doing.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It always amazes me how draft dodging Chickenhawks have no qualm sending our valiant soilders into harms way to prosecute their nefarious agendas!

To whom might you be referring to?

The Cscksucker in the Whitehouse and the Cscksuckers in his Administration

IIRC the draft dodger was the previous administration. The current on actually has a highly decorated retired general working for it. I'd like to know how many previous administrations (that participated in wars) don't fit your description of the current one.

Edit:

What the hell are you talking about?

Sorry. I was actually adding to your comment and directing that one at the previous poster.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It always amazes me how draft dodging Chickenhawks have no qualm sending our valiant soilders into harms way to prosecute their nefarious agendas!

To whom might you be referring to?

The Cscksucker in the Whitehouse and the Cscksuckers in his Administration

IIRC the draft dodger was the previous administration. The current on actually has a highly decorated retired general working for it. I'd like to know how many previous administrations (that participated in wars) don't fit your description of the current one.

And this Administration. The Dub, Cheney, Herr Wolfowitz ect..

 

[imported_KirbsAw]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It always amazes me how draft dodging Chickenhawks have no qualm sending our valiant soilders into harms way to prosecute their nefarious agendas!

To whom might you be referring to?

The Cscksucker in the Whitehouse and the Cscksuckers in his Administration

IIRC the draft dodger was the previous administration. The current on actually has a highly decorated retired general working for it. I'd like to know how many previous administrations (that participated in wars) don't fit your description of the current one.

Yes, haven't you seen clinton speak lately? He said he, bush, and cheney all avoided the war, Kerry actually went.

 

[xospec1alk]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

What makes you think the Iraqi's don't want us there? Do you have friends in the Marines who went over there and know what they're fighting for? Do your friends from the Marines come back to tell you that they might not have supported the war, but the look and cheers they got rolling into town made them feel glad they did it? You're so biased b/c the media only chooses to show that we're getting shot at by some idiots, or a riot started showing people saying "Get out of the US". They never show the humanitarian side of the mission, or where people are actually glad we're there. If we pulled out now the men and women who have sacrified themselves for our country will have died in vain.

ok. granted there are some who do want us there, but there are others who were perfectly fine the way they were living. and some, now that they are liberated from hussein, want us out, and leave the governing to them. why can't we just do that? we toppled saddam, thats all we were after rite? Too many of our soldiers are dying, and for what? to give the iraqis freedom? who said they even wanted a democracy in the first place? its kind of presumptious of the US to go in assuming they want to live a certain way.