I'm in tears right now...

[alphatarget1]

I don't see how threads like this WON'T turn into a flamefest. War = politics.

Iraq should never, NEVER have been our #1 hitlist. Bush put our military in harms way, does that tell you something? Supporting the troops doesn't mean that we have to support a mindless "leader" who has never even BEEN in combat and use our soldiers as political tools.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
WTF are you talking about? No matter how hard the anti-war folks try, they cannot get away with rewriting history just a year or so after the fact.

The fact is, the debate within the UN was NOT whether or not he had them, not even with France, Germany, Russia and Belgium. The entire debate was what to do about it. ALL of those countries maintained that he had WMDs and was attempting to buy/build more. In fact, before the war, not a single major intelligence agency or their government made the claim that he didn;t have WMDs.

It takes just a bit of common sense and the facts to blow away the "bush lied and/or exaggerated" claims. The fact of the matter is, Blix and those who came before him could not go where they wanted, when they wanted, and the Iraqi government had prior notice of when they would be where. THIS was all part of Saddam's violations of 1441 and the resaon why ANY of this came up in the first place.

Keep trying to rewrite hisory, though. If you fib long enough, some people may even believe you.

Common sense will tell you that there was no hurry to rush to war with Iraq. We still need to finish the war against terror and Iraq was not part of that war until we invaded and occupied it. They, unlike Iran, we not actively involved with Al Qaeda.

We didn't rush to war. We took 12 years and multiple violations before we did. WMD wasn't the only reason we went to war. Saddam is an evil person and needed to be removed. So did Hitler but we sat back because it "wasn't our problem" while 6 million people were killed. Oh, and we lost more people on D-Day than we have during this entire war. It's a good thing we didn't wait until Saddam got where Hitler did.


Edit: By the way, I'm not a huge fan of Bush. But for National security he's better than the alternative. We're doing the right thing.


I want Reagan back.

A Far stretch comparing Sadam to Hitler. I think a more apt comparison would be Idi Amin.

Anyway, why attack Hussien when we are already embroiled in a War with Al Qaeda? It did sidetrack our efforts in the War against Terror.

 

[nageov3t]

I hate replying to these threads, but if the Iraqi war wasn't a rushed war, why didn't we go into it with a strategy for rebuilding the country and an exit plan?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: loki8481
I hate replying to these threads, but if the Iraqi war wasn't a rushed war, why didn't we go into it with a strategy for rebuilding the country and an exit plan?

Guess how long it took us rebuild and get out of Japan and Germany after WWII?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: loki8481
I hate replying to these threads, but if the Iraqi war wasn't a rushed war, why didn't we go into it with a strategy for rebuilding the country and an exit plan?

Guess how long it took us rebuild and get out of Japan and Germany after WWII?

Two nations that declared war against us, one who actually attacked us.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: loki8481
I hate replying to these threads, but if the Iraqi war wasn't a rushed war, why didn't we go into it with a strategy for rebuilding the country and an exit plan?

Guess how long it took us rebuild and get out of Japan and Germany after WWII?

Two nations that declared war against us, one who actually attacked us.

And a war that never would have happened if the US, Russia and the UK had enforced the Treaty of Versailles. In this case, French actually WANTED to enforce it, but the other signatories ignored the problem.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Now, how about actually answering the question?

 

[z0mb13]

OMG IS ATOT THE NEXT P&N?? WTF MOVE IT UP MODS!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused
[
And a war that never would have happened if the US, Russia and the UK had enforced the Treaty of Versailles. In this case, French actually WANTED to enforce it, but the other signatories ignored the problem.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Now, how about actually answering the question?

That's a bunch of Bullocks, we were pro active in keeping Hussien in check. We we enforcing no fly zones, we had taken military actions against the Iraqi's in many situations after the first gulf war and his military capabilities were meek at best because of those actions .

BTW, it was Italy that wanted to kick Hitlers ass for violating the Versailles treaty. Mussalino wanted to march in there and arrest Hitler and hang him from the highest tree!

The Dub sold this war ro the American People based on Iraq's thrat to our national security which was Bullsh!t. If he had try to sell this war based on Hussien being a bad guy the American Public would have yawned and told him to shove it!

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
[
And a war that never would have happened if the US, Russia and the UK had enforced the Treaty of Versailles. In this case, French actually WANTED to enforce it, but the other signatories ignored the problem.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Now, how about actually answering the question?

That's a bunch of Bullocks, we were pro active in keeping Hussien in check. We we enforcing no fly zones, we had taken military actions against the Iraqi's in many situations after the first gulf war and his military capabilities were meek at best because of those actions .

BTW, it was Italy that wanted to kick Hitlers ass for violating the Versailles treaty. Mussalino wanted to march in there and arrest Hitler and hang him from the highest tree!

The Dub sold this war ro the American People based on Iraq's thrat to our national security which was Bullsh!t. If he had try to sell this war based on Hussien being a bad guy the American Public would have yawned and told him to shove it!

No, they simply wouldn't have had anything to b!tch about. "OMG..a politician in power lied to us! What are we gonna do?!" Jesus fvcking christ you dipsh!ts. When will you understand it is all bullsh!t anyway?

 

[3chordcharlie]

I don't want to crap in a thread like this, even though it invites politics; this argument has been respun ad nauseum in P&N.

All I have to say is that I support and respect the men and women who put their lives on the line for what they believe in, all over the world. Your country, my country; it doesn't matter. Every soldier's blood is the same colour, and every soldier's sacrifice just as moving.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
[
And a war that never would have happened if the US, Russia and the UK had enforced the Treaty of Versailles. In this case, French actually WANTED to enforce it, but the other signatories ignored the problem.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Now, how about actually answering the question?

That's a bunch of Bullocks, we were pro active in keeping Hussien in check. We we enforcing no fly zones, we had taken military actions against the Iraqi's in many situations after the first gulf war and his military capabilities were meek at best because of those actions .

BTW, it was Italy that wanted to kick Hitlers ass for violating the Versailles treaty. Mussalino wanted to march in there and arrest Hitler and hang him from the highest tree!

The Dub sold this war ro the American People based on Iraq's thrat to our national security which was Bullsh!t. If he had try to sell this war based on Hussien being a bad guy the American Public would have yawned and told him to shove it!

You're still avoiding the original question.

As for your deflection argument, we've had this over and over and you know we'll never agree on it. So why keep starting it up?

Let's assume that your argument is water under the bridge and now we have a job to do. So... answer the question.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
[
And a war that never would have happened if the US, Russia and the UK had enforced the Treaty of Versailles. In this case, French actually WANTED to enforce it, but the other signatories ignored the problem.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Now, how about actually answering the question?

That's a bunch of Bullocks, we were pro active in keeping Hussien in check. We we enforcing no fly zones, we had taken military actions against the Iraqi's in many situations after the first gulf war and his military capabilities were meek at best because of those actions .

BTW, it was Italy that wanted to kick Hitlers ass for violating the Versailles treaty. Mussalino wanted to march in there and arrest Hitler and hang him from the highest tree!

The Dub sold this war ro the American People based on Iraq's thrat to our national security which was Bullsh!t. If he had try to sell this war based on Hussien being a bad guy the American Public would have yawned and told him to shove it!

No, they simply wouldn't have had anything to b!tch about. "OMG..a politician in power lied to us! What are we gonna do?!" Jesus fvcking christ you dipsh!ts. When will you understand it is all bullsh!t anyway?

Spoken like the true ass monkey who pulls butt plugs from the bungholes of overstuffed pigs!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused
[
Let's assume that your argument is water under the bridge and now we have a job to do. So... answer the question.

If you mean do we cut and run? No, we've already jumped the shark now we have to make sure we finish it. If we cut and run Iraq will be worse than it was under Hussien.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
[
And a war that never would have happened if the US, Russia and the UK had enforced the Treaty of Versailles. In this case, French actually WANTED to enforce it, but the other signatories ignored the problem.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Now, how about actually answering the question?

That's a bunch of Bullocks, we were pro active in keeping Hussien in check. We we enforcing no fly zones, we had taken military actions against the Iraqi's in many situations after the first gulf war and his military capabilities were meek at best because of those actions .

BTW, it was Italy that wanted to kick Hitlers ass for violating the Versailles treaty. Mussalino wanted to march in there and arrest Hitler and hang him from the highest tree!

The Dub sold this war ro the American People based on Iraq's thrat to our national security which was Bullsh!t. If he had try to sell this war based on Hussien being a bad guy the American Public would have yawned and told him to shove it!

No, they simply wouldn't have had anything to b!tch about. "OMG..a politician in power lied to us! What are we gonna do?!" Jesus fvcking christ you dipsh!ts. When will you understand it is all bullsh!t anyway?

Spoken like the true ass monkey who pulls butt plugs from the bungholes of overstuffed pigs!

That was some kind of reply there, take you long to think up? Admit it, you guys are b!tching about a politician lying, and you know that they all do. I don't see the issue here.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
[
Let's assume that your argument is water under the bridge and now we have a job to do. So... answer the question.

If you mean do we cut and run? No, we've already jumped the shark now we have to make sure we finish it. If we cut and run Iraq will be worse than it was under Hussien.

OK, I agree. So the poster I was responding to said we had no "strategy for rebuilding and exit." My question was how long were we in Germany and Japan after WWII?

BTW, after censorship was lifted at the end of WWII, did you know that the press declared failure with our occupation of both those countries over and over for the entire time we were there?

 

[T2T III]

Keeping the thread on topic ...

Bless the troops, their families and those who are no longer with us.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
That was some kind of reply there, take you long to think up? Admit it, you guys are b!tching about a politician lying, and you know that they all do. I don't see the issue here.

About as long as it took a Tosser like you to think up calling us Dipsh!ts.

The issue here is that we are enjoying participating in a debate, nothing more. In a forum full of Members like yourself, Amused is a breath of fresh air, even though I think he is often wrong

 

[feelingshorter]

you sound like a great guy but....dont forget, we cant make the world a perfect place and should of left saddam alone with his "nukes" that we never found (as of yet)

 

[thomsbrain]

wrong forum, smart guy. but anyway...

right. like, the united states doesn't have any "humanities" problems of its own. you know, we could have spent that umpty-bazillion dollars feeding our own homeless, and no one would have had to die to do it.

take your head out of the sand. bush doesn't give one flying fvck about the people over there. he only cares about two things: looking tough and money.

rather than be appalled that people question the reasons that those boys you saw were sent to sacrafice themselves, you should be appalled at what those reasons were. those kids lost their limbs for someone else's vendettas and pocketbooks. i'm ashamed of the american people for voting someone into office who could do such a thing. i'm ashamed of the american people for supporting the war that kills their youth while plastering their cars with "support our troups" stickers. i'm ashamed of the american people for even considering continuing such a shameful "mission."

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Excelsior
That was some kind of reply there, take you long to think up? Admit it, you guys are b!tching about a politician lying, and you know that they all do. I don't see the issue here.

About as long as it took a Tosser like you to think up calling us Dipsh!ts.

The issue here is that we are enjoying participating in a debate, nothing more. In a forum full of Members like yourself, Amused is a breath of fresh air, even though I think he is often wrong

Aww, I love you too.

I wouldn't say anyone is enjoying it, but if you get off on it, thats great. Amused may be a breath of fresh air, but it seems like to me you are the same old liberal c0cksucker. you never change , thats all.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: BAMAVOO

Originally posted by: Yossarian

Originally posted by: broonYou aren't supporting the troops by saying you don't support the war. It's offensive to them and tells them you don't value what they are doing.

then let them be offended. I would rather have them offended and home safe rather than getting blown up by RPGs every other day. I don't value what they're doing in Iraq.

You may one day, if you ever have children and don't have to worry about a brutal person like Sadaam being in power.

just for kicks, would you mind telling me how many americans have died as a direct result of actions that sadaam took against american citizens?

now, would you mind telling me how many americans have died as a direct result of bush taking action against iraq citizens?

it seems to me the real threat to our children is a lot closer to home than most people want to admit.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: BAMAVOO

Originally posted by: Yossarian

Originally posted by: broonYou aren't supporting the troops by saying you don't support the war. It's offensive to them and tells them you don't value what they are doing.

then let them be offended. I would rather have them offended and home safe rather than getting blown up by RPGs every other day. I don't value what they're doing in Iraq.

You may one day, if you ever have children and don't have to worry about a brutal person like Sadaam being in power.

just for kicks, would you mind telling me how many americans have died as a direct result of actions that sadaam took against american citizens?

now, would you mind telling me how many americans have died as a direct result of bush taking action against iraq citizens?

it seems to me the real threat to our children is a lot closer to home than most people want to admit.

Tell me, how many Americans died as a direct result of Hitler prior to 1941?

The world is FAR too small and weapons potential far too great for the US to wait until a despot (who is under a cease fire agreement and breaks it) has the ability to hurt us directly.

 

[dudeguy]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: BAMAVOO

Originally posted by: Yossarian

Originally posted by: broonYou aren't supporting the troops by saying you don't support the war. It's offensive to them and tells them you don't value what they are doing.

then let them be offended. I would rather have them offended and home safe rather than getting blown up by RPGs every other day. I don't value what they're doing in Iraq.

You may one day, if you ever have children and don't have to worry about a brutal person like Sadaam being in power.

just for kicks, would you mind telling me how many americans have died as a direct result of actions that sadaam took against american citizens?

now, would you mind telling me how many americans have died as a direct result of bush taking action against iraq citizens?

it seems to me the real threat to our children is a lot closer to home than most people want to admit.

Tell me, how many Americans died as a direct result of Hitler prior to 1941?

The world is FAR too small and weapons potential far too great for the US to wait until a despot (who is under a cease fire agreement and breaks it) has the ability to hurt us directly.

thats right amused. we couldnt risk saddam getting these things in 5 years then dieing and uday taking over, that would be a worst nightmare. equally the prospect on iran getting 200 nukes is equally untenable, and they will be prevented by force or diplomacy.

 

[dudeguy]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
[
Let's assume that your argument is water under the bridge and now we have a job to do. So... answer the question.

If you mean do we cut and run? No, we've already jumped the shark now we have to make sure we finish it. If we cut and run Iraq will be worse than it was under Hussien.

OK, I agree. So the poster I was responding to said we had no "strategy for rebuilding and exit." My question was how long were we in Germany and Japan after WWII?

BTW, after censorship was lifted at the end of WWII, did you know that the press declared failure with our occupation of both those countries over and over for the entire time we were there?

what are you on about?!? the state department prepared a 14 volume analysis of the likely aftermath in iraq and strategy needed to deal with it, but rumsfeld, that sh!t, tossed it in the bin, because a) he doesnt give a sh!t, b) it was from colin powell's dept, and that didnt suit his predjudices.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Excelsior
That was some kind of reply there, take you long to think up? Admit it, you guys are b!tching about a politician lying, and you know that they all do. I don't see the issue here.

About as long as it took a Tosser like you to think up calling us Dipsh!ts.

The issue here is that we are enjoying participating in a debate, nothing more. In a forum full of Members like yourself, Amused is a breath of fresh air, even though I think he is often wrong

Aww, I love you too.

I wouldn't say anyone is enjoying it, but if you get off on it, thats great. Amused may be a breath of fresh air, but it seems like to me you are the same old liberal c0cksucker. you never change , thats all.

That's because the only POV you have is that of your lower intestinal tract