I'm 34, and tired of working.

[shadow9d9]

And what's your point? To have the government force employers to give x weeks of paid vacation to their employees?

The point is that our environment sucks compared to the other first world countries. Have you even been reading this thread? 36-38 hour work weeks, 6-8 weeks vacation, covered healthcare...they have higher standard of living for a majority of the population.

Who cares if 5% can get more than 1-2 weeks. 1-2 weeks is PATHETIC.

 

[AViking]

It's actually quite amazing since I can really sell CA for the wonderful place that it is but so far I have only met one Swede who would want to live there. The working conditions in the US are considered very archaic and the non-existent social benefits just bewilder them. My girlfriend doesn't want to work in the US so it's pretty much game over for me ever moving back.

The US is the ONLY first world country that does not have mandatory vacation. That's really saying something. 25% of Americans get 0 days of paid vacation and 0 paid holidays. Zero. Laughable at best.

Even if you want to look at the average it's deplorable. The average American gets 14-16 days of paid time off. That's vacation and holidays. That too is less than the rest of the first world's minimum time off.

Culturally though we're screwed up since even those that get vacation don't use all of it.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The point is that our environment sucks compared to the other first world countries. Have you even been reading this thread? 36-38 hour work weeks, 6-8 weeks vacation, covered healthcare...they have higher standard of living for a majority of the population.

I'll give you a hint. One of us in this post has worked EXTENSIVELY in a global environment, including with associates in at least 5 European countries (not to mention Asia and South America), not to mention having traveled to Europe on both business and pleasure multiple times. I guarantee I know MUCH more about the benefits and standard of living they have in Europe than you do. Do I think it is better? Yes, in some ways it definitely is. I believe that Europeans, in general, have a healthier outlook on life and know what the priorities should be. I also think it is insanely expensive and don't want a government taking care of me cradle to grave. If YOU like it so much over there, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from moving.

You remind me of the jealous neighbor who wants want his neighbor has. What overly emotional individuals like you refuse to see is that the US Constitution does NOT -- repeat, does NOT -- enumerate those powers and assign them to the federal government. You can twist and spin the words of the Constitution any way you'd like, but the fact remains that these (in this case, healthcare) are not explicitly enumerated powers. If you're comfortable with politicians continuing to "interpret" the Constitution to fit whatever their agenda is, good for you, but remember, that goes both ways -- when the Republicans do it, no bitching about them "shredding" the Constitution. I'm certainly not comfortable with either party twisting the Constitution's words. Want universal healthcare in the US? Pass an amendment explicitly granting the federal government the right.

Who cares if 5% can get more than 1-2 weeks. 1-2 weeks is PATHETIC.

I've never had a job offer less than 3 weeks of vacation to start. I had an offer a couple of months ago for one that had 2 weeks to start and told them (among other things) that I would not start with 2 weeks of vacation.

 

[shadow9d9]

It's actually quite amazing since I can really sell CA for the wonderful place that it is but so far I have only met one Swede who would want to live there. The working conditions in the US are considered very archaic and the non-existent social benefits just bewilder them. My girlfriend doesn't want to work in the US so it's pretty much game over for me ever moving back.

The US is the ONLY first world country that does not have mandatory vacation. That's really saying something. 25% of Americans get 0 days of paid vacation and 0 paid holidays. Zero. Laughable at best.

Even if you want to look at the average it's deplorable. The average American gets 14-16 days of paid time off. That's vacation and holidays. That too is less than the rest of the first world's minimum time off.

Culturally though we're screwed up since even those that get vacation don't use all of it.

You can thank people like indycolts. I got mine, fark you. That is the attitude of people that have it good. The rest are too busy fighting for scraps and trying to survive to do anything, while trying to tear down anyone who has it better(unions) rather than trying to improve their own situations and bring everyone up.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You can thank people like indycolts. I got mine, fark you.

Some of us worked for what we have. Others want it handed to them.

That is the attitude of people that have it good. The rest are too busy fighting for scraps and trying to survive to do anything, while trying to tear down anyone who has it better(unions) rather than trying to improve their own situations and bring everyone up.

I do have it good, because I worked hard my whole life.

 

[shadow9d9]

I'll give you a hint. One of us in this post has worked EXTENSIVELY in a global environment, including with associates in at least 5 European countries (not to mention Asia and South America), not to mention having traveled to Europe on both business and pleasure multiple times. I guarantee I know MUCH more about the benefits and standard of living they have in Europe than you do. Do I think it is better? Yes, in some ways it definitely is. I believe that Europeans, in general, have a healthier outlook on life and know what the priorities should be. I also think it is insanely expensive and don't want a government taking care of me cradle to grave. If YOU like it so much over there, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from moving.

You remind me of the jealous neighbor who wants want his neighbor has. What overly emotional individuals like you refuse to see is that the US Constitution does NOT -- repeat, does NOT -- enumerate those powers and assign them to the federal government. You can twist and spin the words of the Constitution any way you'd like, but the fact remains that these (in this case, healthcare) are not explicitly enumerated powers. If you're comfortable with politicians continuing to "interpret" the Constitution to fit whatever their agenda is, good for you, but remember, that goes both ways -- when the Republicans do it, no bitching about them "shredding" the Constitution. I'm certainly not comfortable with either party twisting the Constitution's words. Want universal healthcare in the US? Pass an amendment explicitly granting the federal government the right.



I've never had a job offer less than 3 weeks of vacation to start. I had an offer a couple of months ago for one that had 2 weeks to start and told them (among other things) that I would not start with 2 weeks of vacation.

1. I couldn't care less about your specific situation. I care about 90% of americans who do not have that luxury.

2. I own my own business and take way more vacation than you have access to, so there goes the typical bs "jealousy" assumption/"argument."

3. You have the typical "Fark you, I got mine" attitude that keeps Americans down.

4. "If you like it better there, move" is an "argument" of a five year old. As already stated, I have better benefits from being self employed than 99.99999% of the US population. The difference between us is that I care about them want things to change. When things aren't great, yeah, you could give up and move away like you suggest. Alternatively, you can point out the problems in hope of changing things.

 

[shadow9d9]

Some of us worked for what we have. Others want it handed to them.



I do have it good, because I worked hard my whole life.

"I got mine, fark you." Yes, we see that. That isn't what the discussion is about. It is about how European first world countries have a much, much higher standard of living, with MUCH better working conditions than the US. Your only response is that you have things(still worse) than those countries and therefore, you don't care about the 100s of millions of other americans. All you have done is give the perfect example of the difference in mentality.

Americans only care about themselves, fighting each other for scraps. European first worlders actually care about their population's well being, hence universal healthcare, shorter work weeks, more vacations, better maternity, etc.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

1. I couldn't care less about your specific situation. I care about 90% of americans who do not have that luxury.

Link, please.

2. I own my own business and take way more vacation than you have access to, so there goes the typical bs "jealousy" assumption/"argument."

I can take as much vacation as I'd like but like a small business owner, any time I take off is time I don't make money. Nice try, though.

3. You have the typical "Fark you, I got mine" attitude that keeps Americans down.

"Keep Americans down"? How about instead of whining and pointing out what others have, those folks actually do something about their plight?

4. "If you like it better there, move" is an "argument" of a five year old.

No, it isn't. I'll never understand people who show such an incredible distaste of America but yet, don't take the logical steps to leave the country when things aren't improving in their estimation.

As already stated, I have better benefits from being self employed than 99.99999% of the US population. The difference between us is that I care about them want things to change. When things aren't great, yeah, you could give up and move away like you suggest. Alternatively, you can point out the problems in hope of changing things.

Nothing wrong with pointing out problems and wanting them to change. However, more government is not the answer.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

"I got mine, fark you." Yes, we see that. That isn't what the discussion is about. It is about how European first world countries have a much, much higher standard of living, with MUCH better working conditions than the US. Your only response is that you have things(still worse) than those countries and therefore, you don't care about the 100s of millions of other americans. All you have done is give the perfect example of the difference in mentality.

Americans only care about themselves, fighting each other for scraps. European first worlders actually care about their population's well being, hence universal healthcare, shorter work weeks, more vacations, better maternity, etc.

Again, if those benefits appeal to you, no one is stopping you from moving. Otherwise, what have you done about improving these situations other than whining on an internet forum?

Are you the sole employee in your business? If not, do you give everyone 6-8 weeks of paid vacation, free health insurance, etc?

 

[shadow9d9]

Link, please.

On average, U.S. workers end up with roughly 16 paid holiday and vacation days in a year, but that number wouldn't meet the legal minimum in most other countries, the authors wrote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/24/us-vacation-time-report_n_3333563.html

I can take as much vacation as I'd like but like a small business owner, any time I take off is time I don't make money. Nice try, though.

Sucks for you then. My business has no such downside.

"Keep Americans down"? How about instead of whining and pointing out what others have, those folks actually do something about their plight?

Talking about the problem and recognizing it exists is the first step. People like you only care about yourself and actively resist.

No, it isn't. I'll never understand people who show such an incredible distaste of America but yet, don't take the logical steps to leave the country when things aren't improving in their estimation.

Haha. Pathetic.

1. Pointing out a flaw in a country = showing incredibly distate of america. AHAHAHA. So stupid it hurts.

2. No, as we just discussed, the solution is to fix the problem.

Nothing wrong with pointing out problems and wanting them to change. However, more government is not the answer.

1. Yes, it is. Hence, the better standards of living in every other first world country. You have provided no argument for why it isn't the answer.

2. Yes, there is a problem according to you.. pointing out the problems shows "incredible distaste for america"... which can be exchanged with the equally stupid "they hate us for our freedom" or any other retardation along those lines. Second, I thought the "logical" solution was to leave instead of change? WHICH ONE IS IT!?!?!?

 

[shadow9d9]

Again, if those benefits appeal to you, no one is stopping you from moving. Otherwise, what have you done about improving these situations other than whining on an internet forum?

Are you the sole employee in your business? If not, do you give everyone 6-8 weeks of paid vacation, free health insurance, etc?

I will both move and then fight for it from out of the country! Your logic is brilliant!

No one in the US gets "free health insurance." Yes, every member of the business gets as much vacation as they want actually.. but again, my situation is so insanely rare that it isn't worth talking about. Wait a second.. I thought I was jealous of everyone! Where'd that AMAZING argument go!?!?!? It was so brilliant! "Derp, urr...you are just jealous!" I thought that argument disappeared once you hit 5 years old.. but I guess it really was just underestimated!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

On average, U.S. workers end up with roughly 16 paid holiday and vacation days in a year, but that number wouldn't meet the legal minimum in most other countries, the authors wrote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/24/us-vacation-time-report_n_3333563.html

Sucks for you then. My business has no such downside.

Good for you. If you knew what I made per year, you would know I don't have any problems taking vacations.

Talking about the problem and recognizing it exists is the first step. People like you only care about yourself and actively resist.

"People like me" understand the Constitution and abhor the continued shredding of it at the hands of both parties.

1. Pointing out a flaw in a country = showing incredibly distate of america. AHAHAHA. So stupid it hurts.

The only stupid person here is you and your continued emo whining. I've read your posts over a number of years and all you do is bash, bash, bash and never pose any real solutions except "more government."

2. No, as we just discussed, the solution is to fix the problem.

You ignored my question. What are you doing to help fix the problem other than whining on an internet forum?

1. Yes, it is. Hence, the better standards of living in every other first world country. You have provided no argument for why it isn't the answer.

I absolutely did provide answers on why it isn't the answer currently and if it is the best course of action, the PROPER way to enact it.

2. Yes, there is a problem according to you.. pointing out the problems shows "incredible distaste for america"... which can be exchanged with the equally stupid "they hate us for our freedom" or any other retardation along those lines. Second, I thought the "logical" solution was to leave instead of change? WHICH ONE IS IT!?!?!?

You don't follow arguments very well, do you? Here is what I said:

1. Nothing wrong with pointing out the problems.
2. I asked "What are you doing to fix them besides whining?"
3. If they aren't improving in your estimation, you can always leave.

No offense, but you are a loon.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I will both move and then fight for it from out of the country! Your logic is brilliant!

No one in the US gets "free health insurance."

That's funny, my last position gave me free health insurance. I didn't pay a dime in premiums. I don't care what the company had to pay, the point is I didn't pay a dime.

Yes, every member of the business gets as much vacation as they want actually.. but again, my situation is so insanely rare that it isn't worth talking about.

Yeah, it is worth talking about but not for the reasons you keep parroting. I'll let you think about it a little more and get back with me. I can draw a picture if it helps.

Wait a second.. I thought I was jealous of everyone! Where'd that AMAZING argument go!?!?!? It was so brilliant! "Derp, urr...you are just jealous!" I thought that argument disappeared once you hit 5 years old.. but I guess it really was just underestimated!

You sound like someone who is jealous. That's a fact and others have stated it too.

Tell me what your business does exactly. I'm curious.

 

[shadow9d9]

1. Nothing wrong with pointing out the problems.

You did not say that. You said that it was "distasteful" to America to find out problems. At the same time, you said that if someone doesn't like it, the first thing they should do is leave.

"They hate us for our freedom!

Jingoism at its finest.

2. I asked "What are you doing to fix them besides whining?"

I answered this. You think it is "whining" because you want things to stay the same. You like that you have it better than a majority of other people. Look at your brags. Look at your argument that other people are "jealous." You are the problem.

3. If they aren't improving in your estimation, you can always leave.

No offense, but you are a loon.

No offense, but you are a prompous ass that literally gets off on keeping your fellow people down.

"You just hate america"
"You are jealous"
"Look at me, I have it good!"

Yep, you are the problem alright. People in other european first world countries look at people like you in disgust. They don't mind spending a few extra dollars(or less in terms of healthcare) to help their people enjoy a higher quality of life. All you care about is you and yourself. You are the most base of human nature. You are filled with greed and ego and lack of empathy.

 

[AViking]

I admit to not being a constitutional scholar but I'm pretty sure the constitution has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

When I ran a small business I did not have to consult with the constitution regarding employee benefits.

If the US Department of Labor decides that all employees are entitled to 30 days of paid vacation I'm fairly sure that the US constitution does not need to be amended. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[shadow9d9]

That's funny, my last position gave me free health insurance. I didn't pay a dime in premiums. I don't care what the company had to pay, the point is I didn't pay a dime.

It was part of your pay. Sucks for you, because you paid WAYYY more than other first world countries.

Yeah, it is worth talking about but not for the reasons you keep parroting. I'll let you think about it a little more and get back with me. I can draw a picture if it helps.

Is your picture of scrooge and how it is the american way?

You sound like someone who is jealous. That's a fact and others have stated it too.

Tell me what your business does exactly. I'm curious.

I am jealous of myself then? No, I sound like someone with empathy. Someone who cares about the people around them and is upset when hearing stories from everyone about how difficult things are. It also upsets me to hear disgusting people like you who only care about yourself. People like you make me sick.

You want to hear about my business? Go F yourself. I don't owe you anything : ).

In your small mind, the only person that cares about their fellow person is someone that has something themselves to gain..which is born from jealousy. What a petty, small minded person you are.

 

[Ares202]

And what's your point? To have the government force employers to give x weeks of paid vacation to their employees?

Thats what you Americans should be pushing for, Yes

 

[shadow9d9]

Thats what you Americans should be pushing for, Yes

But first we must leave the country and stop discussing it on internet forums. Then, we have to pledge allegiance to the flag and sing the national anthem multiple times before even bringing it up! Freeeeedddooooom!!!!

 

[AViking]

It truly is amazing with minimum time off. I'd say everyone gets at least 30 days off. That's a month off during the summer and a couple weeks during the winter. It's perfect and is such an increase in the quality of life that it's worth it. If your business can't stay afloat because you have to give your employees benefits then you need to build a better mousetrap. I find it amazing since even in 3rd world countries they have more benefits than we do in America. I'm looking to open a business in South America and even there I have to pay my employees for 13 months of salary and give them time off, insurance, etc.

The USA is an amazing country that is falling by the wayside. We need to stay modern and can't run a country where it's all about "me, me, me!". It has no long term prospects.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You did not say that. You said that it was "distasteful" to America to find out problems. At the same time, you said that if someone doesn't like it, the first thing they should do is leave.

You're right, I wasn't clear. Let me clarify. What I meant was with the sheer amount of whining and complaining you've done, you sure seem to despise our country.

You've ignored my question for the third (or is it the fourth?) time. What are you doing to fix the problems you perceive in this country other than whining on an internet forum?

"They hate us for our freedom!

Jingoism at its finest.

Please link to where I said the bolded.

I answered this. You think it is "whining" because you want things to stay the same. You like that you have it better than a majority of other people. Look at your brags. Look at your argument that other people are "jealous." You are the problem.

Actually, that isn't what I said. I'll ask you to reread my posts again. I've said I don't care if we have universal healthcare, etc. AS LONG AS IT IS PROPERLY GRANTED through EXPLICITLY ENUMERATED POWERS in the Constitution. You do know what those are, don't you? Aren't you sick and tired of our policitians "interpreting" the Constitution how they want and twisting its words?

No offense, but you are a prompous ass that literally gets off on keeping your fellow people down.

Please tell me how I am keeping others down.

"You just hate america"
"You are jealous"
"Look at me, I have it good!"

Yep, you are the problem alright. People in other european first world countries look at people like you in disgust. They don't mind spending a few extra dollars(or less in terms of healthcare) to help their people enjoy a higher quality of life. All you care about is you and yourself. You are the most base of human nature.

LOL at the bolded. People in the Middle East look at you and me in disgust as well. I care why?

You are filled with greed and ego and lack of empathy.

Greed? No. I just want to provide for me and my family the best I can without having to pay for everyone else and conversely, not having money taken from others to subsidize my life. I've taken pay cuts to other positions in the past where I thought the benefits suited my family better. I'll continue doing that.

Ego? We all have egos, including you. I simply asked if you thought government should mandate paid vacation and then the venom started flying. Why? I just asked a simple question and was met with hostility and you got it back in return. Why do you so vehemently jump on others who disagree with you? A better tactic would be to sell your position instead of insulting people.


I know the discussion between us has been heated. I don't hate you. I think you really believe in what you're preaching and that's good. I think you don't really understand where I'm coming from and perhaps that's because I haven't communicated it very clearly.

 

[AViking]

At what point Indycolts do you think that a benefit to society trumps your pocket book? Healthcare, vacation, maternity leave, pension, job security, etc?

Is it every man for himself?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It was part of your pay. Sucks for you, because you paid WAYYY more than other first world countries.

Yes, but if I turned down insurance, the company would not have compensated me the full amount that they paid for that insurance. That's what you're missing.

I am jealous of myself then? No, I sound like someone with empathy. Someone who cares about the people around them and is upset when hearing stories from everyone about how difficult things are. It also upsets me to hear disgusting people like you who only care about yourself. People like you make me sick.

Wow, your leaps of logic are astounding.

You want to hear about my business? Go F yourself. I don't owe you anything : ).

Quoted for everyone to see. A respectful request is met with vile and venom.

In your small mind, the only person that cares about their fellow person is someone that has something themselves to gain..which is born from jealousy. What a petty, small minded person you are.

The tolerance of the left, quoted again. If you don't agree with us, you're small minded or any number of other insults.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

At what point Indycolts do you think that a benefit to society trumps your pocket book? Healthcare, vacation, maternity leave, pension, job security, etc?

Is it every man for himself?

I've always advocated a catastrophic healthcare plan for every man, woman, and child in America. It would not only cover emergency treatments but treatments for cancer, organ transplants, etc. No problem paying more taxes for that, but I want it passed PROPERLY.

You guys don't seem to get what I'm saying so I'll clarify it. I don't care what you want to implement -- if you can get the votes, more power to you. I may not agree with it in principle, but this is a democracy and if I'm overruled, I'm overruled. However, one thing I am very upset about is the slippery slope of "let's twist and spin the Constitution to fit our agenda." The Republicans do it and the Democrats do it and it is alarming to me. All I ask is that enumerated powers be granted through the proper process.

I'd LIKE to see minimum vacation standards, but I'd need to study the proposals more closely.

I admit to not being a constitutional scholar but I'm pretty sure the constitution has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

When I ran a small business I did not have to consult with the constitution regarding employee benefits.

If the US Department of Labor decides that all employees are entitled to 30 days of paid vacation I'm fairly sure that the US constitution does not need to be amended. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

I was referring more to healthcare. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I've always advocated a catastrophic healthcare plan for every man, woman, and child in America. It would not only cover emergency treatments but treatments for cancer, organ transplants, etc. No problem paying more taxes for that, but I want it passed PROPERLY.

You guys don't seem to get what I'm saying so I'll clarify it. I don't care what you want to implement -- if you can get the votes, more power to you. I may not agree with it in principle, but this is a democracy and if I'm overruled, I'm overruled. However, one thing I am very upset about is the slippery slope of "let's twist and spin the Constitution to fit our agenda." The Republicans do it and the Democrats do it and it is alarming to me. All I ask is that enumerated powers be granted through the proper process.

Our Government and Business has committed the biggest crimes over the years. The American way = it's only illegal when you get caught.

They don't even get a slap on the wrist.

I don't believe that will change any time soon.

Wishful thinking though.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Our Government and Business has committed the biggest crimes over the years. The American way = it's only illegal when you get caught.

They don't even get a slap on the wrist.

I don't believe that will change any time soon.

Wishful thinking though.

It will not, and willfully granting this same government (you know, the one spying on everyone and his/her sister) more and more power is alarming to me. This is my disagreement with shadow9d9 more than anything -- I don't necessarily disagree with some of his goals, but I do disagree with granting more power to our government in its current state.