I'm 34, and tired of working.

[AViking]

You have a rather inaccurate view on this. Euro's have a much higher unemployment rate than in the US. 7%+ vs 12%+ (for the EU as a whole). Germany has a lower rate at 5.4%, but then you have Spain at 24%, Greece at 27%, Italy and Ireland over 12%, France over 11%. So, the idea that there is more job stability is laughable.

The US has a higher per capita income than any EU nation with the exception of Luxembourg and Norway. The US also has a lower cost of living than most EU countries.

The Lawn in the US may have it's brown patches, but the grass certainly isn't greener in the EU.

Spain, Italy, and Greece are not what people talk about when they talk about working in Europe. That's like talking about Detroit when mentioning the US.

Job stability is higher here due to unions and unemployment really has nothing to do with it. Besides, as I've said before, stop looking at the misleading US unemployment numbers and look at the number of people employed. The US is at record lows.

As far as cost of living and income I'll say what I've said a few times before. If you make less than $150,00 a year in the US you would be better off working in Europe. Not Spain or Greece. Please. I mean in Scandinavia, Germany, the UK, and countries that aren't totally screwed up like Detroit.

 

[KoolAidKid]

But you're living in a static world where nothing changes. Things change. Bosses change. Companies change. Over time, even a job that you love can change. I, at times, STILL love what I do. I love watching a machine come to life and produce parts. Maybe I'm just tired and need a break...not sure why the sudden need to feel like I need to retire.

*shrugs*

Absolutely. The consequences of your choices change over time, potentially motivating you to make new ones.

 

[Ares202]

I've never met anyone who worked 90 hours a week. Not in China. Not in India. Not in the US. Not in Europe. I suppose the exception is business owners starting up but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

That's 13 hours a day everyday.

You're getting royally hosed.

Yeh it sucks. Basically i work a 42.5 hour week + weekend (8.5 hours per day) then maintain a big website overnight, this happens 1 in every 5 weeks as a team we share the burden. The website breaks a lot, Ive easily done 90 hours, although the average is probably 70-75 for that week.

I'm paid well but that doesn't mean its a good job.

As for a normal Job, I'd say Chef's and Bankers over here can do 100+ hours Per week. I don't know any bankers but my first job was in catering, so i know how ridiculous those working hours can be.

As far as cost of living and income I'll say what I've said a few times before. If you make less than $150,00 a year in the US you would be better off working in Europe. Not Spain or Greece. Please. I mean in Scandinavia, Germany, the UK, and countries that aren't totally screwed up like Detroit.

Why Exactly? at $150k Tax rates will be a massive factor, i.e yes to Monaco (tax heaven) no to france (75% tax)

 

[Engineer]

Absolutely. The consequences of your choices change over time, potentially motivating you to make new ones.

and I did....I want to retire much more early than I did previously and have set a 'goal' (and a plan in motion) to attempt to do so. Now whether the plan succeeds or not depends on many factors including markets, my ability to keep on the plan (or even make it better), emergency spending, health, KID's spending (argh), etc.

Right now, I'm motivated!!! :biggrin:

 

[Griffinhart]

Spain, Italy, and Greece are not what people talk about when they talk about working in Europe. That's like talking about Detroit when mentioning the US.

Then what countries in particular? US vs EU wide is 7% vs 12%. Even in the worse states Unemployment is at 9%. The worse areas of unemployment in the US is better than the average in the EU. There aren't many EU countries with lower unemployment than the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_by_country

Are you limiting Europe to a few Scandinavian countries that make up a small population of the EU while ignoring the dozens of EU countries with a much higher population?

Job stability is higher here due to unions and unemployment really has nothing to do with it. Besides, as I've said before, stop looking at the misleading US unemployment numbers and look at the number of people employed. The US is at record lows.

Unions are strong in Europe as well. But, As I was pointing out in my post, Job stability isn't any better in Europe than in the US.

As far as cost of living and income I'll say what I've said a few times before. If you make less than $150,00 a year in the US you would be better off working in Europe. Not Spain or Greece. Please. I mean in Scandinavia, Germany, the UK, and countries that aren't totally screwed up like Detroit.

Even eliminating the really badly depressed parts of the EU such as Spain and Greece the EU in general isn't sitting any better than the US. And if you are going to specifically use Detroit as an example (MI's rate is 8.8%) then why ignore Athens, Paris or Madrid?

And by what metric would someone making less than $150K in the US be better off working in the EU? The cost of living in the EU is higher.
http://www.worldsalaries.org/cost-of-living.shtml

While the income levels in the EU are lower.
http://www.worldsalaries.org/employment-income.shtml

I'm not making any claims that the US is perfect, or even better. I just pointed out that automatically thinking things are more stable and care free in the EU because it's not the US is a very false premise. Both the US and Europe have their pro's and con's. Job stability and opportunities are not one that the EU can claim over the US.

IMHO, the primary difference is culture. The average European has a much different outlook on life than an American. Often times, many different goals and priorities as well.

 

[Griffinhart]

To get back on topic more. To the OP:
-You can keep on doing what you are doing and find new hobbies and more interesting things to do with your free time.
-Make a career change (But as mentioned, there is a big risk)
-Find a new job in the same field that offers you more interesting challenges.

It's easy to fall into that job safety zone when you are reliably employed and reasonably paid, but not really challenged or gratified by what you do. You either take initiative and change it, or live with it and find other things you enjoy and add it to your existence.

 

[AViking]

Having worked, lived, and studied in both parts of the world I think you're completely missing the big picture. In the US you are almost exclusively an at will employee. In Europe that is not the case. After a set amount of time, that differs between countries, you get full time employment that is union protected.

As for unemployment numbers I will say it once again. Unemployment is counted differently in different countries. Right now the US is using highly misleading numbers so I would NOT look at those. Look instead at employment numbers.

You can look up how many people are working and compare it year over year. If you were to use unemployment numbers they are highly misleading since the parameters they use change as they change how they count it and they drop people off the statistics despite them still being unemployed.

Last article I read stated that over 100 million working age Americans do not have a job.

The reason unemployment numbers are dropping in the US is because the job force is shrinking. In other words less people are working. According to the US Federal government after a certain amount of time it's ok to drop them off the unemployment statistics since "they don't want a job anymore".

I think everyone should look at their finances and gauge what they're really spending. What are you spending on healthcare, education, daycare, transportation, food, utilities, and so on and how much is left over from your paycheck after these basic necessities are paid for? How much is time off costing you, extra vacation days, sick days, maternity leave, etc? Then you can objectively compare it to a job opportunity in a European country. In a nutshell I have found that you need to make a lot of money in the US before it pays off.

If you make $50,000 and pay $5000 for healthcare then you are paying 10% of your income for healthcare. If you are also paying $1500 for gas and a few thousand for a car then there is a good chance you're paying 10% of your income, or more, on transportation. You're most likely closer to 17%. Now I use these as examples and could go on but that 20%+ in extra costs is quite a bit. In Sweden healthcare is free at the expense of extra taxes and my transportation costs are a small fraction of what they are in the US because of better mass transit. If you're in the child raising years of your life a country like Sweden comes out ahead by a landslide due to the astronomical cost of daycare in the US. There's really not even a comparison at that point.

I'm not here to do a giant math problem for everyone on this forum but I can objectively look at the higher incomes and lower taxes in the US and compare them to the benefits I get in Sweden and despite the high "cost of living" come out ahead here. Things that cost me a fortune here are alcohol and electronics and I can avoid that quite easily. Food is pretty comparable. Rent is pretty comparable. Because of the smaller size of houses you can actually buy a home for much less money than in the US if you want to. It's tough to get a small house in a lot of the US but here I can get a large house if I want but I can also buy a small house or a flat which is A-ok in my book.

 

[shadow9d9]

Having worked, lived, and studied in both parts of the world I think you're completely missing the big picture. In the US you are almost exclusively an at will employee. In Europe that is not the case. After a set amount of time, that differs between countries, you get full time employment that is union protected.

As for unemployment numbers I will say it once again. Unemployment is counted differently in different countries. Right now the US is using highly misleading numbers so I would NOT look at those. Look instead at employment numbers.

You can look up how many people are working and compare it year over year. If you were to use unemployment numbers they are highly misleading since the parameters they use change as they change how they count it and they drop people off the statistics despite them still being unemployed.

Last article I read stated that over 100 million working age Americans do not have a job.

The reason unemployment numbers are dropping in the US is because the job force is shrinking. In other words less people are working. According to the US Federal government after a certain amount of time it's ok to drop them off the unemployment statistics since "they don't want a job anymore".

I think everyone should look at their finances and gauge what they're really spending. What are you spending on healthcare, education, daycare, transportation, food, utilities, and so on and how much is left over from your paycheck after these basic necessities are paid for? How much is time off costing you, extra vacation days, sick days, maternity leave, etc? Then you can objectively compare it to a job opportunity in a European country. In a nutshell I have found that you need to make a lot of money in the US before it pays off.

If you make $50,000 and pay $5000 for healthcare then you are paying 10% of your income for healthcare. If you are also paying $1500 for gas and a few thousand for a car then there is a good chance you're paying 10% of your income, or more, on transportation. You're most likely closer to 17%. Now I use these as examples and could go on but that 20%+ in extra costs is quite a bit. In Sweden healthcare is free at the expense of extra taxes and my transportation costs are a small fraction of what they are in the US because of better mass transit. If you're in the child raising years of your life a country like Sweden comes out ahead by a landslide due to the astronomical cost of daycare in the US. There's really not even a comparison at that point.

I'm not here to do a giant math problem for everyone on this forum but I can objectively look at the higher incomes and lower taxes in the US and compare them to the benefits I get in Sweden and despite the high "cost of living" come out ahead here. Things that cost me a fortune here are alcohol and electronics and I can avoid that quite easily. Food is pretty comparable. Rent is pretty comparable. Because of the smaller size of houses you can actually buy a home for much less money than in the US if you want to. It's tough to get a small house in a lot of the US but here I can get a large house if I want but I can also buy a small house or a flat which is A-ok in my book.

You will not convince Americans. People need to justify/rationalize their own situation. Americans are also very much into fighting for the scraps that are left for them and more interested in tearing down those that have things better(anti union, etc).

Luckily, for me, I own my own business...

 

[StinkyPinky]

Your all viewing from the outside looking in, I think you need a perspective of someone who lives in Europe.

You get much more holidays in Europe, where I live (UK) you have 22 days holiday as a minimum as a full time worker. I get quite a bit more as I've negotiated a lesser salary for more holidays.

Healthcare is free. I can't believe you guys don't have this.

But

You're likely to be paid less than the equivalent job in the USA, worse still your essentials (gas, electricity, water food, petrol/diesel) will cost 1.5 x 2.0 what your likely to be paying in the USA.

You're likely to also work long hours as you already do, Yes you have to sign a waiver for working over a 48 hour week, but my job like many has this waiver as part of my contract, no waiver no Job unfortunately. I've been known to work up to 90 hours a week.

Benefits whilst a plus on paper has many negatives, i.e people will choose to have 5+ kids instead of a career and live off child benefit, meaning higher taxes for people like me. For me to claim benefits I have to wait 6 weeks, then I can claim only around $55 per week in your money (No kids no mortgage) which I simply cannot live off, the system is bloated and totally unfair in the country I live in.

I hear you, but I do have some experience with the UK, if indirectly. My brother lived there for 6 years. I would think 90 hours is very extreme, by anyones standards? My bro worked about the same hours he worked in the US but got twice the vacation time. His pay was probably a bit less but I'd rather have the time off work in my view.

I guess it depends on your outlook on life. I think the average American probably does have a bit more disposable income than the average Brit for example, but at the cost that they need to spend more hours at work and have less vacation time. Plus I'm sure over there you guys have laws that protect workers from unjustified firings etc, but in the US we have basically nothing. The boss can just decide to fire your ass and throw you out the building simply because he hates your shoes. There is no job security here for most of the population.

 

[schmuckley]

What is it you like to do?
Something that's kinda like work but you enjoy..

 

[AViking]

You can always look at global savings rates. They're pretty easily found. The US is very low. They have a savings rate around 4%.

Sweden is higher at about 12%. How is it possible that a higher taxed country with lower incomes is able to have a higher personal savings rate?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/personal-savings

 

[Ares202]

I hear you, but I do have some experience with the UK, if indirectly. My brother lived there for 6 years. I would think 90 hours is very extreme, by anyones standards? My bro worked about the same hours he worked in the US but got twice the vacation time. His pay was probably a bit less but I'd rather have the time off work in my view.



I guess it depends on your outlook on life. I think the average American probably does have a bit more disposable income than the average Brit for example, but at the cost that they need to spend more hours at work and have less vacation time. Plus I'm sure over there you guys have laws that protect workers from unjustified firings etc, but in the US we have basically nothing. The boss can just decide to fire your ass and throw you out the building simply because he hates your shoes. There is no job security here for most of the population.

Pretty much agree. If I moved away from this country the USA would not be first in my list for the reasons stated. Lack of holidays and no employee rights.going from 25 holidays to 12-15 would be tough to take

90 hours is pretty crazy yeah. I don't do it every week! Maybe once or twice in 3 years. My average is probably about 50 per week

You are protected from being fired. But you can only claim unfair dismissal after 18 months. Better than nothing I guess But the company wants rid of you they can always fire you on technicalities or simply make you redundant. Then hire another guy after 6 months or so.

 

[RaistlinZ]

What is it you like to do?
Something that's kinda like work but you enjoy..

Well, I love animals. And if it paid enough to allow me a decent lifestyle I would probably go work for a large cat rescue reserve. Of course, that would likely require additional school and animal training, but if I won the lottery today and never had to work again that's probably what I would want to do.

 

[Rebel44]

You are protected from being fired. But you can only claim unfair dismissal after 18 months. Better than nothing I guess But the company wants rid of you they can always fire you on technicalities or simply make you redundant. Then hire another guy after 6 months or so.

Same here, but if next month my employer decide that my job is redundant, I would get 8 times my average monthly income as compensation. That would help me survive untill I find another job

 

[piasabird]

Take a vacaton.

Korea is a good place to live and they have one of the highest internet access rates of any industrial country.

 

[shadow9d9]

Take a vacaton.

Out of the two week standard vacation? That is kind of the point...

 

[schmuckley]

Well, I love animals. And if it paid enough to allow me a decent lifestyle I would probably go work for a large cat rescue reserve. Of course, that would likely require additional school and animal training, but if I won the lottery today and never had to work again that's probably what I would want to do.

Okay well;I bet there some kind of job working with big cats that you could make some money at..

Personally I'm of the opinion "If it's bigger than a bobcat,It will kill me and I should kill it 1st" ..it might be due to big cats being around here, but..idk..

 

[rh71]

-There is a 5% dividend tax, but none for salary.
-Remember, this is your first year's salary. So its ok if you miss the mark by a small amount. Just make up for it the next year, or the year after that
-Finally, 7k is plenty to live off of if you live as a college student. Remember in college when 7k meant something? Just have that attitude for the first few years.

So you're 30+ and living like a college student. Do you plan to be single forever or did you intend on meeting someone at 37?

 

[Hacp]

So you're 30+ and living like a college student. Do you plan to be single forever or did you intend on meeting someone at 37?

There's a thing called raises. No one is stuck at starting salary for the rest of their lives. By the time you're 30, you should be able to live like a PHD student instead of a college student.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

There's a thing called raises. No one is stuck at starting salary for the rest of their lives. By the time you're 30, you should be able to live like a PHD student instead of a college student.

LOL, you're 23, right?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Out of the two week standard vacation? That is kind of the point...

The point is not to take a job with a company which gives you only 1 or 2 weeks of vacation to start.

 

[sze5003]

There's a thing called raises. No one is stuck at starting salary for the rest of their lives. By the time you're 30, you should be able to live like a PHD student instead of a college student.

I work for a big corporate finance company. Yeah the raises have been 2-3% every year so it's not helpful. You want more money you need to move where they pay more. More than likely it will also cost more to live there.

 

[shadow9d9]

The point is not to take a job with a company which gives you only 1 or 2 weeks of vacation to start.

The point is that 95%+ of people don't have that choice. That is the reality of the US.

 

[AViking]

If you have tried and true techniques for getting more vacation start a thread and get them to sticky it here.

In my experience you're either not valuable enough to give more vacation to or you're too valuable to not have there. It sucked.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The point is that 95%+ of people don't have that choice. That is the reality of the US.

And what's your point? To have the government force employers to give x weeks of paid vacation to their employees?