Illegal Immigration Issue: Securing our borders

[AAjax]

Anyone been reading up on the "proposed" Pan american union?

Question, what is the easiest way to get a nation to give up its sovereignty?

Answer. you dont ask them, or tell them you just do it. One of the handy ways to do so was done by the English to Ireland and Scotland hundreds of years ago. You breed them out by importing a foreign national populace with entirely different ideals and values, have them retain their prior national identity and viola within a couple generations you have a large number of people who dont hold the values and ideals that said host country was based on.

We are about one and one half generations into this.




Doubt it? tale a listen.

Quote "we are millions, we just have to wait. The whites are not having babies"

If thats not racist I dont know what is. Time to address the Illegal invasion.

Im not in any way agianst legal imigration but your living with your head in the sand if you dont want to see what is being done to our nation. Wake up

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Kntx
So set a fair "American" minimum wage and be done with it!

Don't woryy they're working on it.

$3 DAY to match China and India.

Fixed that typo for ya Dave...

Actually, you'd be surprised how much the wage difference is for the same price point comparing US/Canada to India/China.

Wages are a very small component of a company's costs; there's energy, inventories, shipping, lead times, turnover, quality, etc. Many companies are deciding to come back from 3rd world countries as the costs are just too high. Think of how much needs to be invested to get a product from India; investing in raw material, energy and manpower to fabricate, large warehouse preparing to ship, long time periods to ship, cost to ship, warehousing at ports on the west coast and finally to distribution centers on the east coast.

You cannot compare wages when considering offshoring. Therefore this $3/hr and $3/day is a complete farce. Of course resident liberals don't tend to use critical thinking...so what can you expect?

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: Kntx

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: fitzov
Booo! I wan't my dirt cheap labor!

This is bad in the long run. The people employing these immigrants (like McD) can afford to and should pay 8-10$ per hour. A cheeseburger costs 30 cents or so to make. But they sell it for 89 cents. Even factoring in rent and paying for the people making the burger and taking the order, it costs maybe 55 cents. That means McD is making over 50% profit. That money is not going back to the middle class in America, it is going to the people up top who already have money; it is making them richer. If illegals were not allowed to work, and companies got busted for hiring them, places like McD would have to pay a lot more to get and keep their workers. This would be a good thing, as it would help redistribute the wealth. But as it is now, this cheap labor is sending all the money straight to the top (and a little out of the country). Eventually we won't have a choice but to eat at McD, because we can't afford anything else. Same goes with Walmart. McD should not be making 50% profit and keeping it at the top. We need immigration laws to force companies to pay Americans an American wage. I'd have so much more money saved to invest now if I had been payed $10/hour when I worked at McD.

So set a fair "American" minimum wage and be done with it!

Booo! I wan't my dirt cheap labor!

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by:Stunt

"You cannot compare wages when considering offshoring. Therefore this $3/hr and $3/day is a complete farce. Of course resident liberals don't tend to use critical thinking...so what can you expect?

and of course, conservatives haven't got enough intelligence to understand humor, nor recognize it when they see it...

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by:Stunt

"You cannot compare wages when considering offshoring. Therefore this $3/hr and $3/day is a complete farce. Of course resident liberals don't tend to use critical thinking...so what can you expect?

and of course, conservatives haven't got enough intelligence to understand humor, nor recognize it when they see it...

humor = circle jerk, exaggerating blatently incorrect information?
Your "joke" was your attempt at guessing Indian wage.

If that was humor...you are in no position to criticize.

 

[BoomerD]

"humor = circle jerk, exaggerating blatently incorrect information?
Your "joke" was your attempt at guessing Indian wage.

If that was humor...you are in no position to criticize."

Personally, I could give a sh*t less how much the Indians get paid...IMO, just another 3rd world sh*thole.
The information you are whining about was intentionally incorrect, to make a point by both of us...
You need to go smoke some of that fabulous BC bud Canada is so famous for, and chill out...

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
"humor = circle jerk, exaggerating blatently incorrect information?
Your "joke" was your attempt at guessing Indian wage.

If that was humor...you are in no position to criticize."

Personally, I could give a sh*t less how much the Indians get paid...IMO, just another 3rd world sh*thole.
The information you are whining about was intentionally incorrect, to make a point by both of us...
You need to go smoke some of that fabulous BC bud Canada is so famous for, and chill out...

So...
a) You lied...you weren't making a joke
b) You have no respect for the vast majority of people in this world.

Two reasons nobody on this forum should listen to your worthless opinion.

 

[BoomerD]

"So...
a) You lied...you weren't making a joke
b) You have no respect for the vast majority of people in this world.

Two reasons nobody on this forum should listen to your worthless opinion"


Ah gee, I've been mortally wounded...I realize, that because my opinion is different than yours, it's worthless. I'm used to that, being a democrat in a Republican controlled country, and by being "not particularly liberal" in Kahleeforneeya.

I can accept that you don't understand "satire" being intentionally un-factual" information to make a point. Conservatives seem not to have much of a sense of humor...

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
"So...
a) You lied...you weren't making a joke
b) You have no respect for the vast majority of people in this world.

Two reasons nobody on this forum should listen to your worthless opinion"


Ah gee, I've been mortally wounded...I realize, that because my opinion is different than yours, it's worthless. I'm used to that, being a democrat in a Republican controlled country, and by being "not particularly liberal" in Kahleeforneeya.

I can accept that you don't understand "satire" being intentionally un-factual" information to make a point. Conservatives seem not to have much of a sense of humor...

You aren't a Democrat. Democrats are compassionate people and care for their fellow mankind. With your total lack of respect for anyone not American...you are definately a Republican. When you agree with hardline American conservatives (in the case of illegals), you really need to give your head a shake.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: AAjax
Anyone been reading up on the "proposed" Pan american union?

Question, what is the easiest way to get a nation to give up its sovereignty?

Answer. you dont ask them, or tell them you just do it. One of the handy ways to do so was done by the English to Ireland and Scotland hundreds of years ago. You breed them out by importing a foreign national populace with entirely different ideals and values, have them retain their prior national identity and viola within a couple generations you have a large number of people who dont hold the values and ideals that said host country was based on.

We are about one and one half generations into this.




Doubt it? tale a listen.

Quote "we are millions, we just have to wait. The whites are not having babies"

If thats not racist I dont know what is. Time to address the Illegal invasion.

Im not in any way agianst legal imigration but your living with your head in the sand if you dont want to see what is being done to our nation. Wake up

Even if your paranoid conspiracy theory is true, who gives a damn? What's so special about our particular brand of Western European whitness that we deserve to have everylasting dominion over this country, regardless of who else comes here? If "one and one half generations" from now we're all part of some blend of American and Latino culture, who's to say that we won't be better for it, that our current status quo is the best possible culture we can have?

And your example is pretty bad, anyone who thinks the Irish and the Scots don't have a distinct identity seperate from the English is an idiot...or someone who's never been there.

 

[farscapesg1]

I'm not about to read all the previous posts since most of them are going to be the typical "you don't know crap, so go away". Instead, I will give my opinion as somone who lives in Houston.

Personally, I think that we should tighten up our borders to stop the flow of illegal immigrants into the US. There should be a legal process to let people into the US as legal citizens, but it should be made affordable to anyone who wishes to become a citizen. It should comprise of several tests based upon what the school systems require an average high school graduate to know about US history. The biggest factor is that they should require being able to speak fluent English.

Those already in the US illegally should be given the chance to become full citizens and again it should be done in a way that is economically feasible for them to afford.

Sure, some people might think I am being a little harsh, but if I was moving to France I would expect the same for me to become a citizen. Heck, the wife and I took a two week vacation to Europe going to France, Germany, and Italy (a little bit of a whirlwind but very enjoyable) and we made sure that we could at least say and understand basic phrases. When we encountered someone that couldn't speak English, we didn't think "why the heck can't they understand us". In fact, we helped resolve an argument between a French man and an older German couple on the train when he was in the wrong seat and they couldn't understand each other.

So, I only expect the same of others as I would expect of myself if I was moving to another country.

 

[BoomerD]

"You aren't a Democrat. Democrats are compassionate people and care for their fellow mankind. With your total lack of respect for anyone not American...you are definately a Republican. When you agree with hardline American conservatives (in the case of illegals), you really need to give your head a shake.

ROFL! Have NEVER voted for a Repuke in my life. NOT once. As hard-core Democrat as it gets. DON'T make the mistake of confusing Democrat with liberal. Why that's as foolish as considering GWB a conservative! Repuke he may be, but conservative he ain't.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: farscapesg1
I'm not about to read all the previous posts since most of them are going to be the typical "you don't know crap, so go away". Instead, I will give my opinion as somone who lives in Houston.

Personally, I think that we should tighten up our borders to stop the flow of illegal immigrants into the US. There should be a legal process to let people into the US as legal citizens, but it should be made affordable to anyone who wishes to become a citizen. It should comprise of several tests based upon what the school systems require an average high school graduate to know about US history. The biggest factor is that they should require being able to speak fluent English.

Those already in the US illegally should be given the chance to become full citizens and again it should be done in a way that is economically feasible for them to afford.

Sure, some people might think I am being a little harsh, but if I was moving to France I would expect the same for me to become a citizen. Heck, the wife and I took a two week vacation to Europe going to France, Germany, and Italy (a little bit of a whirlwind but very enjoyable) and we made sure that we could at least say and understand basic phrases. When we encountered someone that couldn't speak English, we didn't think "why the heck can't they understand us". In fact, we helped resolve an argument between a French man and an older German couple on the train when he was in the wrong seat and they couldn't understand each other.

So, I only expect the same of others as I would expect of myself if I was moving to another country.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but under your system, many of the immigrants during the 19th and early 20th centuries wouldn't have made it in. Fluent English and high school graduate knowledge of history skills are a little hard to obtain if you are some dirt poor guy living in Mexico. I think you should have to speak at least enough English to get by in a country where that's the primary language (which is a lot less than "fluent") and you should have to learn at least some basic historical facts (mostly to show an effort).

 

[farscapesg1]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: farscapesg1
I'm not about to read all the previous posts since most of them are going to be the typical "you don't know crap, so go away". Instead, I will give my opinion as somone who lives in Houston.

Personally, I think that we should tighten up our borders to stop the flow of illegal immigrants into the US. There should be a legal process to let people into the US as legal citizens, but it should be made affordable to anyone who wishes to become a citizen. It should comprise of several tests based upon what the school systems require an average high school graduate to know about US history. The biggest factor is that they should require being able to speak fluent English.

Those already in the US illegally should be given the chance to become full citizens and again it should be done in a way that is economically feasible for them to afford.

Sure, some people might think I am being a little harsh, but if I was moving to France I would expect the same for me to become a citizen. Heck, the wife and I took a two week vacation to Europe going to France, Germany, and Italy (a little bit of a whirlwind but very enjoyable) and we made sure that we could at least say and understand basic phrases. When we encountered someone that couldn't speak English, we didn't think "why the heck can't they understand us". In fact, we helped resolve an argument between a French man and an older German couple on the train when he was in the wrong seat and they couldn't understand each other.

So, I only expect the same of others as I would expect of myself if I was moving to another country.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but under your system, many of the immigrants during the 19th and early 20th centuries wouldn't have made it in. Fluent English and high school graduate knowledge of history skills are a little hard to obtain if you are some dirt poor guy living in Mexico. I think you should have to speak at least enough English to get by in a country where that's the primary language (which is a lot less than "fluent") and you should have to learn at least some basic historical facts (mostly to show an effort).

Obviously, we aren't in the 19th or early 20th century anymore. Times change. In the 1800's you didn't have easy access to the Internet, language classes on CDs, DVDs, or in easy to acquire books.

Well, the US history and English would be part of the citizenship process (similar to what it is now as I understand it, just more economical). I work for a hospital north of Houston, TX and many of the housekeeping staff cannot even begin to understand English, even something as simple as "what floor?" when they get on an elevator.

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: AAjax
Anyone been reading up on the "proposed" Pan american union?

Question, what is the easiest way to get a nation to give up its sovereignty?

Answer. you dont ask them, or tell them you just do it. One of the handy ways to do so was done by the English to Ireland and Scotland hundreds of years ago. You breed them out by importing a foreign national populace with entirely different ideals and values, have them retain their prior national identity and viola within a couple generations you have a large number of people who dont hold the values and ideals that said host country was based on.

We are about one and one half generations into this.




Doubt it? tale a listen.

Quote "we are millions, we just have to wait. The whites are not having babies"

If thats not racist I dont know what is. Time to address the Illegal invasion.

Im not in any way agianst legal imigration but your living with your head in the sand if you dont want to see what is being done to our nation. Wake up

Even if your paranoid conspiracy theory is true, who gives a damn? What's so special about our particular brand of Western European whitness that we deserve to have everylasting dominion over this country, regardless of who else comes here? If "one and one half generations" from now we're all part of some blend of American and Latino culture, who's to say that we won't be better for it, that our current status quo is the best possible culture we can have?

And your example is pretty bad, anyone who thinks the Irish and the Scots don't have a distinct identity seperate from the English is an idiot...or someone who's never been there.

First off, whites shouldnt have dominion, nor should anyone else (as a racial group) we should all be joined in the American Ideal. Something you obviously dont care at all about.
My point was that the very Ideal of America is being assulted to the point of dillution into some "co-prosperity sphere" rulled by the elite (who dont care what color you are, just how much money you have)

And sure Scotland and Ireland have a shadow of the Identity that once was, but it is only a shadow. Both lost their sovereignty (a point that you seem not to care about) It has left Ireland bitterly divided and in a state of war for almost 100 years. No biggie I guess, if you dont care about your land of birth.

I for one want my grandchildren (no matter what they look like) to have the oppertunity to live in a free nation with liberty for all. Trick is that wont happen unless those (us) who come before them protect those Ideals and liberties, much as those who came before us did. Call me and Idiot if you like but slavery and totalitarianism is allways waiting in the wings for those who arent willing to stand up against it.

You however state "Even if your paranoid conspiracy theory is true, who gives a damn?"

Nice.....


and yes my spelling sux

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Stunt
What are you talking about...you are blatently going after my nationality and dodging the issues...
Rainsford has already pointed out he'd rather discuss with someone who is considering social and economic issues than someone who 'experiences' illegals in their day to day life and feels they are a burden on their lives.

I will continue to stay on topic and discuss the issues, feel free to undermine my credibility...too bad you look completely ridiculous doing so.

Heh- the only one that looks ridiculous is yourself. I can't remember the last time I went to a discussion board filled with Canadians or any other nationaltiy and told them how to run their country.

 

[hysperion]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I wouldn't mind more people in Canada, our country is hugely underpopulated. Besides, I find immigrants since they are born and raised in nations of little entitlement and have the discipline/motivation to work hard, are extremely productive. I trust my country's prosperity and social infrastructure can support many people, and as a byproduct allow many people the opportunity to better their lives in a capitalist environment. These people will be productive and drive a thriving economy; helping to pay for the next wave of immigrants.

Many of the Japanese in our country were brought in as cheap labourers (not immigrants) to help build the national railway; these people were considered second class citizens and were not given citizenship. After the railway was built some were allowed to stay....and these people have become very successful. My friend's dad is the CEO of vtech; a relative of those very slaves. These people seem like a burden, but this one man can support many others (even though I mentioned earlier their questionable drain on scoiety).

Just because Mexico has poor foriegn policy doesn't mean you have to as well. Imagine if you lowered yourselves to Mexican policy/laws; who in their right mind would advocate that. *points finger* "he did it first!" ...how mature.

Canada? Capitalist? :laugh:

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: hysperion

Originally posted by: Stunt
What are you talking about...you are blatently going after my nationality and dodging the issues...
Rainsford has already pointed out he'd rather discuss with someone who is considering social and economic issues than someone who 'experiences' illegals in their day to day life and feels they are a burden on their lives.

I will continue to stay on topic and discuss the issues, feel free to undermine my credibility...too bad you look completely ridiculous doing so.

Heh- the only one that looks ridiculous is yourself. I can't remember the last time I went to a discussion board filled with Canadians or any other nationaltiy and told them how to run their country.

Have you ever commented on Iraq/Iran/Cuba? People comment on other countries all the time, this is no different. I happen to find this topic interesting and have read many articles and studies on the issue.

My nationality is a red herring for those who cannot form a reasonable argument or are just too misinformed to really have any substance.

And yes, Canada is a capitalist environment.
here is a study on economic freedom...

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: AAjax

I for one want my grandchildren (no matter what they look like) to have the oppertunity to live in a free nation with liberty for all. Trick is that wont happen unless those (us) who come before them protect those Ideals and liberties, much as those who came before us did. Call me and Idiot if you like but slavery and totalitarianism is allways waiting in the wings for those who arent willing to stand up against it.

You however state "Even if your paranoid conspiracy theory is true, who gives a damn?"

Nice.....

As doI AAjax. Stunt, obviously does not get it and his views and interpretations remind me a lot of Senator Kennedy. :disgust: I dunno, maybe Stunt is Kennedy!!!! :laugh:

Point is Stunt, A LOT of Americans love and care about this country and we will do whatever it takes to protect this country and the people of this country. If our government can't get it right, the people will step up, voice the opinion and make the government get it right.

Don't try to convince us of "your plan" for our country. Your blatant comments about not caring (which you refer to frequently) only prove my point futher; that your so called "ideas" for our country are ridiculous.

Why do you even care about this topic? Because it is interesting? Because it is a way for you to spew garbage and try and convince people that there is nothing really bad going on in our country, but the reality is, this is a huge issue for our country. You don't have all the information on what our country is facing. To comment on these issues without knowing ALL the facts is laughable.

Don't tell me you have all the facts. You may think you do, but you don't.

 

[Stunt]

I don't have all the facts but you have absolutely no proof that illegals or the current state of the US border is causing anything "bad" or lacking "protection".

You can attack me all you want guys...until you have a credible argument and can rebut the things i have said...you are just flapping your lips with absolutely no substance.

 

[Mill]

The hilarity is that Stunt, a Canadian, owned almost all of the Americans in this thread. He's got a more accurate and fundamentally sound idea of immigration policy and benefits than any of you xenophobes and whackjobs. Freetrade and immigration are absolute positives in today's globalized economy. You can be protectionist all you want, but it isn't protecting our heritage, our economy, or anything like that. It is simply being obstructionist to what WILL happen.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Mill
The hilarity is that Stunt, a Canadian, owned almost all of the Americans in this thread. He's got a more accurate and fundamentally sound idea of immigration policy and benefits than any of you xenophobes and whackjobs. Freetrade and immigration are absolute positives in today's globalized economy. You can be protectionist all you want, but it isn't protecting our heritage, our economy, or anything like that. It is simply being obstructionist to what WILL happen.

no he doesnt, and he hasent "owned" anybody in this thread. Freetrade is great if its a two way street but that isnt happening. that superhigh way being built from Mexico to canada with a Mexican Customs Office in Kansas City (paid for by the KC Citizens) is nothing but a undermining of our economy by a shipping cheap products made in China, ported in Mexico and sent north to our country and Canada.

you said "immigration are absolute positives in today's globalized economy. " i have no idea what you mean by this. why is illegal immigration an abslolute in todays globalized economy? can i go to china and get a job building Dell Monitors?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I don't have all the facts but you have absolutely no proof that illegals or the current state of the US border is causing anything "bad" or lacking "protection".

You can attack me all you want guys...until you have a credible argument and can rebut the things i have said...you are just flapping your lips with absolutely no substance.

thats right you dont have all the facts, in reality you have no facts at all. there is plenty of PROOF that illegals are causing bad things and that our borders are seriously lacing in proctection of our country. if you want proof, all you have to do is put your uneducated butt on a plane and fly down to the Arizona/mexican border and see for yourself.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Mill
The hilarity is that Stunt, a Canadian, owned almost all of the Americans in this thread. He's got a more accurate and fundamentally sound idea of immigration policy and benefits than any of you xenophobes and whackjobs. Freetrade and immigration are absolute positives in today's globalized economy. You can be protectionist all you want, but it isn't protecting our heritage, our economy, or anything like that. It is simply being obstructionist to what WILL happen.

no he doesnt, and he hasent "owned" anybody in this thread. Freetrade is great if its a two way street but that isnt happening. that superhigh way being built from Mexico to canada with a Mexican Customs Office in Kansas City (paid for by the KC Citizens) is nothing but a undermining of our economy by a shipping cheap products made in China, ported in Mexico and sent north to our country and Canada.

you said "immigration are absolute positives in today's globalized economy. " i have no idea what you mean by this. why is illegal immigration an abslolute in todays globalized economy? can i go to china and get a job building Dell Monitors?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_advantage

Cheap products from China are an entirely different deal all together, but they do provide a higher class of living for most Americans. Chinese goods are hurting us though because of a trade imbalance and not because their products are cheap and affordable. China is a complicated situation involved revaluing the yuan, rapid GDP growth, and a new economy that will start being dependent on US technology, finance, and other products we provide. Entirely different situation than Mexico, and I think you'd find that the Ports in San Francisco, LA, and others are the main focal point for Chinese shipping instead of Mexican Ports. It makes zero since to pay duties and customs in Mexico and then AGAIN in the United States. Even if Mexico has cheaper dockworkers.

Freetrade has been occurring as a two-way street. We are providing Capital and Mexico is providing us with labor. Same thing goes on in Dubai with East Asian immigrants. Look, I can't help it if you are uneducated, but don't be throwing that moniker around on other people. Perhaps you should pick up an Economics book or a newspaper other than your local fare. Freetrade isn't just the US getting products for cheaper, it is us having a large, global marketplace for OUR products as well. The recent devaluation of the Dollar is, IMO, driving our exports way up. We are starting to have a trade surplus with almost every country but China.

You can say you are for freetrade all you want, but right now you and everyone else is preaching protectionist garbage.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Mill
The hilarity is that Stunt, a Canadian, owned almost all of the Americans in this thread. He's got a more accurate and fundamentally sound idea of immigration policy and benefits than any of you xenophobes and whackjobs. Freetrade and immigration are absolute positives in today's globalized economy. You can be protectionist all you want, but it isn't protecting our heritage, our economy, or anything like that. It is simply being obstructionist to what WILL happen.

You nailed it on the head. Emphasis mine. Now, if you had said ILLEGAL immigration, well, that would be different.

So if we are against illegal immigration, we are xenophobes? ORLY?