Illegal Immigration Issue: Securing our borders

[Mill]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Mill
The hilarity is that Stunt, a Canadian, owned almost all of the Americans in this thread. He's got a more accurate and fundamentally sound idea of immigration policy and benefits than any of you xenophobes and whackjobs. Freetrade and immigration are absolute positives in today's globalized economy. You can be protectionist all you want, but it isn't protecting our heritage, our economy, or anything like that. It is simply being obstructionist to what WILL happen.

You nailed it on the head. Emphasis mine. Now, if you had said ILLEGAL immigration, well, that would be different.

So if we are against illegal immigration, we are xenophobes? ORLY?

No, there are a lot of reasons to be against illegal immigrants, but most people do it out of xenophobia, bigotry, or because they are plain 'ole uneducated.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Mill
The hilarity is that Stunt, a Canadian, owned almost all of the Americans in this thread. He's got a more accurate and fundamentally sound idea of immigration policy and benefits than any of you xenophobes and whackjobs. Freetrade and immigration are absolute positives in today's globalized economy. You can be protectionist all you want, but it isn't protecting our heritage, our economy, or anything like that. It is simply being obstructionist to what WILL happen.

You nailed it on the head. Emphasis mine. Now, if you had said ILLEGAL immigration, well, that would be different.

So if we are against illegal immigration, we are xenophobes? ORLY?

No, there are a lot of reasons to be against illegal immigrants, but most people do it out of xenophobia, bigotry, or because they are plain 'ole uneducated.

Huh. Interesting. And those of us who are educated and not xenophobic, what do you propose is our reason for being against illegal immigrants? I suppose love of country and the desire to preserve what is left of our sovereignty isnt good enough?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Mill
The hilarity is that Stunt, a Canadian, owned almost all of the Americans in this thread. He's got a more accurate and fundamentally sound idea of immigration policy and benefits than any of you xenophobes and whackjobs. Freetrade and immigration are absolute positives in today's globalized economy. You can be protectionist all you want, but it isn't protecting our heritage, our economy, or anything like that. It is simply being obstructionist to what WILL happen.

You nailed it on the head. Emphasis mine. Now, if you had said ILLEGAL immigration, well, that would be different.

So if we are against illegal immigration, we are xenophobes? ORLY?

No, there are a lot of reasons to be against illegal immigrants, but most people do it out of xenophobia, bigotry, or because they are plain 'ole uneducated.

Huh. Interesting. And those of us who are educated and not xenophobic, what do you propose is our reason for being against illegal immigrants? I suppose love of country and the desire to preserve what is left of our sovereignty isnt good enough?

The argument I would make is that if someone is educated then they'd realize that love of a country, nationalism, and sovereignty has nothing to do with immigration. So, I suppose that since you don't realize that you aren't truly educated about the topic.

Would you like to provide some actual arguments instead of talking points? I can post 20 articles that show how immigration and free trade benefit both countries.

 

[Stunt]

Finally someone else who is educated on this issue. There is hope for Americans yet!

 

[straightalker]

Originally posted by: thecoffeeguy
To those who are do not know the seriousness of this issue, I'll just provide a lot of links with tons of info:

http://www.alipac.us/

http://www.steinreport.com/

http://www.saveourstate.org/links.html

http://www.americanpatrol.com/

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/coa/memdisp...ea08cbd838825717200738864?OpenDocument

http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/

http://grades.betterimmigration.com/

http://www.answerla.org/

http://www.aztlan.net/

http://www.theamericanresistance.com/thousand_words/baldwin_park_2005may14.html

http://borderfenceproject.com/

http://www.borderguardians.org/index.php

http://www.ccir.net/

http://unitedstates.fm/campo.htm

http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/LatinoCaucus/

http://chicago.indymedia.org/feature/display/70264/index.php

http://minutemanhq.com/b2/index.php/simcox/2005/10/13/p52#comments

http://www.ctcitizensforimmigrationcontrol.com/

http://danielisright.blogspot.com/

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/

http://www.elconcilio.org/programs/programs.htm

http://www.wildmanharrold.com/labor_lib...Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act.htm

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer

http://www.firecoalition.com/

http://www.forthecause.us/

http://www.friendsoftheborderpatrol.com/

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL32735.pdf

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/

http://www.wehirealiens.com/

http://www.heritage.org/

I don't know how many of you have children or whom may be getting grandchildren soon, but the future of this country hangs in the balance.

If you care for your country and the future of the country, the time to be heard is now. It is time for the people to make noise and be heard.

I encourage anyone who cares to step up and make a difference on this issue.

Maybe we can get the mods to make this a sticky so we can update links daily.

Stay frosty and alert thecoffeeguy. Well done. Ignore Stunt and the other kids off school on summer break.

All these folks who recommend open borders i want the home address of so i can come shack up for free in their houses, drive their cars and eat out of their refrigerators. Hey what right have they have to be more prosperous than me? Theoretically speaking here of course. I'm not actually going anywhere.

See what i'm saying? In practical application, their theories suck. EVERY NATION, BUSINESS OR INDIVIDUAL must have some defined border. Every cell in our body has one. Try removing all of your cell membranes. See what you look like. A puddle of sludge most likely.

It's also laughable none of these "pro-everybody-pile-into-the-USA" debaters ever mentions Switzerland. Very tough border control exists there and it's trend is to get tougher now that so much fear exists everywhere over terrorism. The Swiss enjoy a very high standard of living. Some here would say pile in the Third World into Switzerland. I say that's just gibberish.

 

[jrenz]

Fukc I want a quesadilla right now.....

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: straightalker

Originally posted by: thecoffeeguy
To those who are do not know the seriousness of this issue, I'll just provide a lot of links with tons of info:

http://www.alipac.us/

http://www.steinreport.com/

http://www.saveourstate.org/links.html

http://www.americanpatrol.com/

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/coa/memdisp...ea08cbd838825717200738864?OpenDocument

http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/

http://grades.betterimmigration.com/

http://www.answerla.org/

http://www.aztlan.net/

http://www.theamericanresistance.com/thousand_words/baldwin_park_2005may14.html

http://borderfenceproject.com/

http://www.borderguardians.org/index.php

http://www.ccir.net/

http://unitedstates.fm/campo.htm

http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/LatinoCaucus/

http://chicago.indymedia.org/feature/display/70264/index.php

http://minutemanhq.com/b2/index.php/simcox/2005/10/13/p52#comments

http://www.ctcitizensforimmigrationcontrol.com/

http://danielisright.blogspot.com/

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/

http://www.elconcilio.org/programs/programs.htm

http://www.wildmanharrold.com/labor_lib...Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act.htm

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer

http://www.firecoalition.com/

http://www.forthecause.us/

http://www.friendsoftheborderpatrol.com/

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL32735.pdf

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/

http://www.wehirealiens.com/

http://www.heritage.org/

I don't know how many of you have children or whom may be getting grandchildren soon, but the future of this country hangs in the balance.

If you care for your country and the future of the country, the time to be heard is now. It is time for the people to make noise and be heard.

I encourage anyone who cares to step up and make a difference on this issue.

Maybe we can get the mods to make this a sticky so we can update links daily.

Stay frosty and alert thecoffeeguy. Well done. Ignore Stunt and the other kids off school on summer break.

All these folks who recommend open borders i want the home address of so i can come shack up for free in their houses, drive their cars and eat out of their refrigerators. Hey what right have they have to be more prosperous than me? Theoretically speaking here of course. I'm not actually going anywhere.

See what i'm saying? In practical application, their theories suck. EVERY NATION, BUSINESS OR INDIVIDUAL must have some defined border. Every cell in our body has one. Try removing all of your cell membranes. See what you look like. A puddle of sludge most likely.

It's also laughable none of these "pro-everybody-pile-into-the-USA" debaters ever mentions Switzerland. Very tough border control exists there and it's trend is to get tougher now that so much fear exists everywhere over terrorism. The Swiss enjoy a very high standard of living. Some here would say pile in the Third World into Switzerland. I say that's just gibberish.

As usual you've no real idea what you are talking about. Switzerland is a party to the Schengen agreement which means it will have open borders and no passport requirement between Schengen/EU states. This happened within the last year, so so much for "tightening" their border controls. The trend in Europe is NOT tighter border or customs controls, but rather looser controls with coalition or group agreements replacing old bilateral accords and trade agreements. Furthermore, the reason the Swiss have always been hesitant to join the EU has always been able their ability to stay neutral and to keep the same "status" they enjoy as an exception to many of the rules that the EU places on member countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4612281.stm

MERCOSUR has also been a boon as a trade zone/customs zone

No one is for unregulated or massively uncontrolled immigration into the United States. I am for a Worker Program that offers conditional citizenship or a derivative thereof. However, deporting or punishing current illegal residents is nothing more than a pipedream that is economically non-feasible and logistically unwieldy, expensive, and impossible. The best solution is a guest worker program, some forms of citizenship amnesty, and border cards that allow freetrade. I am for a compromise that is economically, socially, and fiscally responsible, and allows both the immigrants, Mexico, Canda andthe United States to have tangible and realistic benefits.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: straightalker
Stay frosty and alert thecoffeeguy. Well done. Ignore Stunt and the other kids off school on summer break.

All these folks who recommend open borders i want the home address of so i can come shack up for free in their houses, drive their cars and eat out of their refrigerators. Hey what right have they have to be more prosperous than me? Theoretically speaking here of course. I'm not actually going anywhere.

See what i'm saying? In practical application, their theories suck. EVERY NATION, BUSINESS OR INDIVIDUAL must have some defined border. Every cell in our body has one. Try removing all of your cell membranes. See what you look like. A puddle of sludge most likely.

It's also laughable none of these "pro-everybody-pile-into-the-USA" debaters ever mentions Switzerland. Very tough border control exists there and it's trend is to get tougher now that so much fear exists everywhere over terrorism. The Swiss enjoy a very high standard of living. Some here would say pile in the Third World into Switzerland. I say that's just gibberish.

Another personal attack from the ill-informed; not only are you wrong about my career and social status, your examples are horrible.

First off immigrants are totally self sufficient; due to their upbringing with few entitlements, most survive on their own and understand work will support their needs. These people do not need anyone's home or food to eat; they do that on their own...they are survivors, look at how determined they were to get to the US.

Your border analogy was horrible. Borders are pretend lines from the past where nations fought over every bit of land they could get their hands on. Today borders don't and shouldn't matter; the free flow of goods, currency and people is the norm and expected in the new world. We are no longer residents of the same town, from birth to death in the same area; we are free to move to a different state, nation or continent. It's an amazing thing and allows a melting pot of expertise and cultures. You act as if the border is what keeps us together; wrong. What keeps us together is our close relationships with other countries and openess to other cultures, trading the best each other has to offer.

Advocate isolationism all you want, sure it *can* work...by my world isn't like that. My world is a diverse, friendly and open community advocating rights and liberties for all people...a universal code of ethics knowing no *borders*.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Stunt


Advocate isolationism all you want, sure it *can* work...by my world isn't like that. My world is a diverse, friendly and open community advocating rights and liberties for all people...a universal code of ethics knowing no *borders*.

In your dreams.....

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Stunt


Advocate isolationism all you want, sure it *can* work...by my world isn't like that. My world is a diverse, friendly and open community advocating rights and liberties for all people...a universal code of ethics knowing no *borders*.

So what happens when myself and 30,000,000 (100,000,000 by 2100) of "my people" whom share this value of "isolationism" move into your country from another and start voting, are you all warm and fuzzy then? Cause that's what is happening to the USA.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Reconquista&btnG=Google+Search <-- Reconquista

http://www.unm.edu/~ecdn/ <-- University of New Mexico

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Stunt
Advocate isolationism all you want, sure it *can* work...by my world isn't like that. My world is a diverse, friendly and open community advocating rights and liberties for all people...a universal code of ethics knowing no *borders*.

So what happens when myself and 30,000,000 (100,000,000 by 2100) of "my people" whom share this value of "isolationism" move into your country from another and start voting, are you all warm and fuzzy then? Cause that's what is happening to the USA.

If they are residents of my country, I have no problem with these voting; they are now my fellow countrymen and they are entitled to a voice. A person is a person; I don't care where you are from. We all were landed immigrants at one point, some longer than others...all coming for the same reason; to start a new life in the free world.

Am I more deserving of living in a first world country than others? no.
Am I entitled to a job when another person came here with nothing and can do that job better after all the opportunities I've been given? no.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: straightalker
Stay frosty and alert thecoffeeguy. Well done. Ignore Stunt and the other kids off school on summer break.

All these folks who recommend open borders i want the home address of so i can come shack up for free in their houses, drive their cars and eat out of their refrigerators. Hey what right have they have to be more prosperous than me? Theoretically speaking here of course. I'm not actually going anywhere.

See what i'm saying? In practical application, their theories suck. EVERY NATION, BUSINESS OR INDIVIDUAL must have some defined border. Every cell in our body has one. Try removing all of your cell membranes. See what you look like. A puddle of sludge most likely.

It's also laughable none of these "pro-everybody-pile-into-the-USA" debaters ever mentions Switzerland. Very tough border control exists there and it's trend is to get tougher now that so much fear exists everywhere over terrorism. The Swiss enjoy a very high standard of living. Some here would say pile in the Third World into Switzerland. I say that's just gibberish.

Another personal attack from the ill-informed; not only are you wrong about my career and social status, your examples are horrible.

First off immigrants are totally self sufficient; due to their upbringing with few entitlements, most survive on their own and understand work will support their needs. These people do not need anyone's home or food to eat; they do that on their own...they are survivors, look at how determined they were to get to the US.

Your border analogy was horrible. Borders are pretend lines from the past where nations fought over every bit of land they could get their hands on. Today borders don't and shouldn't matter; the free flow of goods, currency and people is the norm and expected in the new world. We are no longer residents of the same town, from birth to death in the same area; we are free to move to a different state, nation or continent. It's an amazing thing and allows a melting pot of expertise and cultures. You act as if the border is what keeps us together; wrong. What keeps us together is our close relationships with other countries and openess to other cultures, trading the best each other has to offer.

Advocate isolationism all you want, sure it *can* work...by my world isn't like that. My world is a diverse, friendly and open community advocating rights and liberties for all people...a universal code of ethics knowing no *borders*.

Borders don?t matter? Thanks for showing your true colors. Borders do matter in this world. Also illegal?s are NOT totally self sufficient. If that was the case then our country, our states our counties and our towns would not be shelling out billions of dollars taking care of said illegals. You my friend have no clue, all you have is a haphazard theory that looks great on paper but like communism will not work.

Since you like to throw out the lable as being uneducated, its my turn to throw it at you. Until you come down the US so that you can see, feel, taste and experience what illegal immigration has done to the US you are uneducated. It takes more than reading a book or a white paper to educate yourself. Some of the smartest people i have ever known never graduated from high school.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Mill
The hilarity is that Stunt, a Canadian, owned almost all of the Americans in this thread. He's got a more accurate and fundamentally sound idea of immigration policy and benefits than any of you xenophobes and whackjobs. Freetrade and immigration are absolute positives in today's globalized economy. You can be protectionist all you want, but it isn't protecting our heritage, our economy, or anything like that. It is simply being obstructionist to what WILL happen.

You nailed it on the head. Emphasis mine. Now, if you had said ILLEGAL immigration, well, that would be different.

So if we are against illegal immigration, we are xenophobes? ORLY?

No, there are a lot of reasons to be against illegal immigrants, but most people do it out of xenophobia, bigotry, or because they are plain 'ole uneducated.

Huh. Interesting. And those of us who are educated and not xenophobic, what do you propose is our reason for being against illegal immigrants? I suppose love of country and the desire to preserve what is left of our sovereignty isnt good enough?

The argument I would make is that if someone is educated then they'd realize that love of a country, nationalism, and sovereignty has nothing to do with immigration. So, I suppose that since you don't realize that you aren't truly educated about the topic.

Would you like to provide some actual arguments instead of talking points? I can post 20 articles that show how immigration and free trade benefit both countries.

What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand? This isnt about immigration ya dolt. It's about ILLEGAL immigration. Do you understand the difference? Or is it all the same to you? Are you reading impaired?