Illegal Immigration Issue: Securing our borders

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's mind blowing his spewage when he is NOT HERE.

There should be a rule if you do not live here, have no business commenting in such a way as if he did live here.

I'm not saying not entitled to an opinion, just saying it should not be as if you are speaking like you live here.

It would be like me speaking about life in North Korea or Cuba.

a) you do speak out on other countries; you always seem to know what is best for iraqi's.

I do not and take offense on that statement.

I've said repeatedly the U.S. has no business being there.

I've also asked anyone that can show me where in the U.S. Constitution it says the U.S. is the World's Policeman.

b) Canada faces similar a similar issue, and I'm quite interested in the topic; namely because the press has gone nuts with it and most Americans are misinformed.

If Canada welcomes anyone that can make it to it's borders then it deserves whatever happens to it.

Interesting because Canada does not readily accept Americans any longer.

I don't even think of Canada as a Soviern Nation because of it's ties to France but that is my opinion.

 

[BoomerD]

Tell ya what Stunt...You deal with Canada's immigration problems as you choose, leave American problems to Americans. Your opinion is worthless in this issue if you aren't an American citizen...

I'm an "oddball" on this issue. A Democrat who supports closing the borders and sending ALL the illegals home, whethter they are from Mexico, central/couth America, Canada, China, Ireland, where ever...Want to come to the USA? Do it the legal way, or stay home...PERIOD.
I've worked heavy construction all my life, and lately, it's mostly Mexicans on many of the construction crews. Carpenters, concrete finishers, laborers, etc. Many don't speak more than rudimentary english, and lots of them are here illegally with phony ID for the I-9 paperwork.
I'm not against LEGAL immigration, but there needs to be some controls to stop the current invasion from the south...

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Tell ya what Stunt...You deal with Canada's immigration problems as you choose, leave American problems to Americans. Your opinion is worthless in this issue if you aren't an American citizen...

I'm an "oddball" on this issue. A Democrat who supports closing the borders and sending ALL the illegals home, whethter they are from Mexico, central/couth America, Canada, China, Ireland, where ever...Want to come to the USA? Do it the legal way, or stay home...PERIOD.
I've worked heavy construction all my life, and lately, it's mostly Mexicans on many of the construction crews. Carpenters, concrete finishers, laborers, etc. Many don't speak more than rudimentary english, and lots of them are here illegally with phony ID for the I-9 paperwork.
I'm not against LEGAL immigration, but there needs to be some controls to stop the current invasion from the south...

Nope...you have the identical opinion as Dave...feels satisfying huh?
That's almost enough to discredit your opinion right there...since you want to attack my nationality and not the issues

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Tell ya what Stunt...You deal with Canada's immigration problems as you choose, leave American problems to Americans. Your opinion is worthless in this issue if you aren't an American citizen...

I'm an "oddball" on this issue. A Democrat who supports closing the borders and sending ALL the illegals home, whethter they are from Mexico, central/couth America, Canada, China, Ireland, where ever...Want to come to the USA? Do it the legal way, or stay home...PERIOD.
I've worked heavy construction all my life, and lately, it's mostly Mexicans on many of the construction crews. Carpenters, concrete finishers, laborers, etc. Many don't speak more than rudimentary english, and lots of them are here illegally with phony ID for the I-9 paperwork.
I'm not against LEGAL immigration, but there needs to be some controls to stop the current invasion from the south...

Good points BoomerD.

There is a issue, we just need to address it.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Tell ya what Stunt...You deal with Canada's immigration problems as you choose, leave American problems to Americans. Your opinion is worthless in this issue if you aren't an American citizen...

I'm an "oddball" on this issue. A Democrat who supports closing the borders and sending ALL the illegals home, whethter they are from Mexico, central/couth America, Canada, China, Ireland, where ever...Want to come to the USA? Do it the legal way, or stay home...PERIOD.
I've worked heavy construction all my life, and lately, it's mostly Mexicans on many of the construction crews. Carpenters, concrete finishers, laborers, etc. Many don't speak more than rudimentary english, and lots of them are here illegally with phony ID for the I-9 paperwork.
I'm not against LEGAL immigration, but there needs to be some controls to stop the current invasion from the south...

I wouldn't exactly say I'm in favor of illegal immigration, but construction is a BAD example to bring up...at least for me. Most of the illegal immigrants I've seen in construction are among the hardest working, while the white guys tend to not do much and/or do very poor work. Obviously not a rule or anything, and I'm sure you have more experience than I do with 'em...but the illegal Mexican immigrants who are doing a good job working construction aren't really the best example to use as an argument against illegal aliens.

 

[Stunt]

If you guys were smart...
ie. realize the border will never be fully closed and the current illegals will not be deported...you'd make them citizens.
Think of the additional tax revenues. (even though illegals pay sales, property <through rent> taxes)

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Stunt
If you guys were smart...
ie. realize the border will never be fully closed and the current illegals will not be deported...you'd make them citizens.
Think of the additional tax revenues. (even though illegals pay sales, property <through rent> taxes)

Well yes, that's the part of the debate I don't get. Everyone is really in favor of mining the border, shooting everyone who even EATS at a Mexican restaurant in the face, etc, etc, but they all claim it's just illegal immigration they care about. Yet the concept of making it easier and faster to become a LEGAL immigrant seems to not be getting a lot of traction. Kind of makes you wonder...

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: Stunt
If you guys were smart...
ie. realize the border will never be fully closed and the current illegals will not be deported...you'd make them citizens.
Think of the additional tax revenues. (even though illegals pay sales, property <through rent> taxes)

Tell you what.

Since you don't live in this country, and you are not American, don't worry about it. You don't care about things anyway.

You worry about your own country and politics.

Most Americans are concerned about these issues and do care about them.


I think you are more just posting to get a rise out of people than anything else.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: thecoffeeguy

Originally posted by: Stunt
If you guys were smart...
ie. realize the border will never be fully closed and the current illegals will not be deported...you'd make them citizens.
Think of the additional tax revenues. (even though illegals pay sales, property <through rent> taxes)

Tell you what.

Since you don't live in this country, and you are not American, don't worry about it. You don't care about things anyway.

You worry about your own country and politics.

Most Americans are concerned about these issues and do care about them.


I think you are more just posting to get a rise out of people than anything else.

I've commented many times on American issues and am a well respected member of these forums. For you to try to disregard the issues and points i raise...for the sake of blind nationalistic ignorance...it's obvious where your stance in this thread comes from .

You are trolling in your own thread.
Ignoring the issues and attacking the messenger.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: thecoffeeguy

Originally posted by: Stunt
If you guys were smart...
ie. realize the border will never be fully closed and the current illegals will not be deported...you'd make them citizens.
Think of the additional tax revenues. (even though illegals pay sales, property <through rent> taxes)

Tell you what.

Since you don't live in this country, and you are not American, don't worry about it. You don't care about things anyway.

You worry about your own country and politics.

Most Americans are concerned about these issues and do care about them.


I think you are more just posting to get a rise out of people than anything else.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, being an American or not has NOTHING to do with the ability to reasonably analyze this issue. What Stunt may lack as a Canadian is intense personal feelings one way or the other about the issue, since he isn't as directly involved (the same way some Americans are). And from where I'm sitting, that's exactly the kind of bullshit that we need a lot LESS of in the debate. I'd rather discuss broad social and economic issues with someone who isn't basing his entire opinion on the fact that he doesn't like all the Mexicans working at his local McDonalds.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Stunt
If you guys were smart...
ie. realize the border will never be fully closed and the current illegals will not be deported...you'd make them citizens.
Think of the additional tax revenues. (even though illegals pay sales, property <through rent> taxes)

We tried this already in (1982?) and look what happened...it compounded the issue. Also, its a huge slap in the face for those who have spent the time and money to get here legally. It literally says to those people, Look. I know you are not a criminal like those who have come here illegally, and I know you tried to do the right thing instead of dodging authority at the border, but were gonna go ahead and give those illegals a crack at legal status".

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Tell ya what Stunt...You deal with Canada's immigration problems as you choose, leave American problems to Americans. Your opinion is worthless in this issue if you aren't an American citizen...

I'm an "oddball" on this issue. A Democrat who supports closing the borders and sending ALL the illegals home, whethter they are from Mexico, central/couth America, Canada, China, Ireland, where ever...Want to come to the USA? Do it the legal way, or stay home...PERIOD.
I've worked heavy construction all my life, and lately, it's mostly Mexicans on many of the construction crews. Carpenters, concrete finishers, laborers, etc. Many don't speak more than rudimentary english, and lots of them are here illegally with phony ID for the I-9 paperwork.
I'm not against LEGAL immigration, but there needs to be some controls to stop the current invasion from the south...

Nope...you have the identical opinion as Dave...feels satisfying huh?
That's almost enough to discredit your opinion right there...since you want to attack my nationality and not the issues

I'm not attacking your nationality, but since this is an American problem we're talking about, your opinion has no value here. I actually like Canada and most of it's politics, and having lived much of my life in the northwest, grew up knowing lots of decent hardworking Canucks...HOWEVER, you aren't faced with the daily onslaught of illegals sneaking into your country. YES, you probably have many illegals there, as you say, people on visas who don't leave...We hae those too, but they are just a fraction of the illegals we have.

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I wouldn't exactly say I'm in favor of illegal immigration, but construction is a BAD example to bring up...at least for me. Most of the illegal immigrants I've seen in construction are among the hardest working, while the white guys tend to not do much and/or do very poor work. Obviously not a rule or anything, and I'm sure you have more experience than I do with 'em...but the illegal Mexican immigrants who are doing a good job working construction aren't really the best example to use as an argument against illegal aliens.

Well, in some respects, you're right. Most are hardworking people. NO argument there, BUT, the mass influx is driving wages down, by their sheer numbers. (supply & demand) Certainly the contractors don't pass on those cost savings...the price of work keeps climbing for a variety of reasons, and as the cost of labor drops, they get to pocket the difference, and many good people are out of work, because the illegals are willing to work cheaper. THAT drives down wages in many sectors, not only construction, but most "manual labor" type of jobs.

 

[Stunt]

What are you talking about...you are blatently going after my nationality and dodging the issues...
Rainsford has already pointed out he'd rather discuss with someone who is considering social and economic issues than someone who 'experiences' illegals in their day to day life and feels they are a burden on their lives.

I will continue to stay on topic and discuss the issues, feel free to undermine my credibility...too bad you look completely ridiculous doing so.

 

[BoomerD]

Like I said, not attacking your nationality...I'm not dodging the issues, you are ignoring them, and as for what rainsford wants, well, he can discuss what he wants with whomever he wishes, but that doesn't change the fact that many Americans feel like Dave & I do, and whether you recognize it or not, really doesn't change that. We will speak out on the subject as we see fit, even if you disagree.
Here's some questions for you then...
What gives people the right to ignore a nation's immigration laws? The fact that they want to work here?
Why should any country permit the free & uncontrolled immigration of people from a poorer country?
When the labor market is saturated with unskilled/untrained/ labor, what happens to those who are already working in the "entry-level" jobs?
Since Mexico is such a strong supporter of allowing their people to come here, why are their immigration laws so much stricter than ours? Should we mirror their laws to cover their people? (reciprocity?)
How about we build a road that goes straight from the Mexican border to the Canadian border, with NO way to leave it along the route...Send the millions who cross every year straight to Canada, since you are such a strong supporter of allowing them to come here...just send them to you to deal with...

 

[Stunt]

I wouldn't mind more people in Canada, our country is hugely underpopulated. Besides, I find immigrants since they are born and raised in nations of little entitlement and have the discipline/motivation to work hard, are extremely productive. I trust my country's prosperity and social infrastructure can support many people, and as a byproduct allow many people the opportunity to better their lives in a capitalist environment. These people will be productive and drive a thriving economy; helping to pay for the next wave of immigrants.

Many of the Japanese in our country were brought in as cheap labourers (not immigrants) to help build the national railway; these people were considered second class citizens and were not given citizenship. After the railway was built some were allowed to stay....and these people have become very successful. My friend's dad is the CEO of vtech; a relative of those very slaves. These people seem like a burden, but this one man can support many others (even though I mentioned earlier their questionable drain on scoiety).

Just because Mexico has poor foriegn policy doesn't mean you have to as well. Imagine if you lowered yourselves to Mexican policy/laws; who in their right mind would advocate that. *points finger* "he did it first!" ...how mature.

 

[fitzov]

Booo! I wan't my dirt cheap labor!

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: Stunt

I've commented many times on American issues and am a well respected member of these forums. For you to try to disregard the issues and points i raise...for the sake of blind nationalistic ignorance...it's obvious where your stance in this thread comes from .

How am I disregarding the issues? I've rebuttled to your issues as have many others. You have your own views on things and most of us diagree completely.

You made your point, I made mine. I am of agreement that you do not know all the facts because you don't get all the facts.
You also don't live here, so it is not part of your daily life, like it is here for most of us.

You can spin it anyway you like. I started this thread because this is a very HUGE issue right now in USA and I want everyone to be able to take the information and make a decision on their own.

You are trolling in your own thread.
Ignoring the issues and attacking the messenger.

You are free to see it anyway you like. That is your perogative.

Until you live here, until you have all the information, until you see the impact this issue is having on your country, on the economy, on medical, on education, on the people, your family, your friends, you will never know.

 

[Stunt]

This is a straight up economic issue, is it not?
Why do none of your links have studies considering the real impacts.

Dollar figures for medical and the like are irrelevant as that is a fixed cost associated with caring and developing your productivity and growth (people). My nationality has nothing to do with it... The fact you keep bringing it up is mind-boggling; no reasonable critical thinker would ever argue against a person's nationality on an issue.

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: Stunt
This is a straight up economic issue, is it not?
Why do none of your links have studies considering the real impacts.

Dollar figures for medical and the like are irrelevant as that is a fixed cost associated with caring and developing your productivity and growth (people). My nationality has nothing to do with it... The fact you keep bringing it up is mind-boggling; no reasonable critical thinker would ever argue against a person's nationality on an issue.

Stunt, I have to admit, you are very well at dodging questions. Many questions have been asked on this thread, directed right at you on this issue, yet you dance around it. You've never answered my questions, BoomerD or others that have been posted here.

I feel like im talking to a brick wall here and it is getting dull.

If you would look at the links that I have provided, you will see that some of these sites do show the impact it would have on our country.

The info is there. You are just choosing to not read it.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: thecoffeeguy

Originally posted by: Stunt
This is a straight up economic issue, is it not?
Why do none of your links have studies considering the real impacts.

Dollar figures for medical and the like are irrelevant as that is a fixed cost associated with caring and developing your productivity and growth (people). My nationality has nothing to do with it... The fact you keep bringing it up is mind-boggling; no reasonable critical thinker would ever argue against a person's nationality on an issue.

Stunt, I have to admit, you are very well at dodging questions. Many questions have been asked on this thread, directed right at you on this issue, yet you dance around it. You've never answered my questions, BoomerD or others that have been posted here.

I feel like im talking to a brick wall here and it is getting dull.

If you would look at the links that I have provided, you will see that some of these sites do show the impact it would have on our country.

The info is there. You are just choosing to not read it.

There's lots of info here as well...but I perfer to get a balanced, well researched point of view. I have read numerous studies and articles on the topic, your sites just don't fit the bill. Most are run by those who are misdirecting their own frustrations, it's always someone else's fault for everything. Blame deflection is quite apparent with this issue...and your links jump through hoops to do just that.

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: Stunt

There's lots of info here as well...but I perfer to get a balanced, well researched point of view. I have read numerous studies and articles on the topic, your sites just don't fit the bill. Most are run by those who are misdirecting their own frustrations, it's always someone else's fault for everything. Blame deflection is quite apparent with this issue...and your links jump through hoops to do just that.

Maybe you should try different web sites, ones with better, more reliable information.
Yours are obviously not fitting the bill.

Maybe instead of interpeting things the way you choose and how you want to see things, read the information for what it is.

No spin is great stuff.

 

[BoomerD]

"Dollar figures for medical and the like are irrelevant as that is a fixed cost associated with caring and developing your productivity and growth (people). "

Irrelevant? How so? Why should the Americn people bear the cost of providing medical treatment for foreign nationals, when we don't even provide it for our own citizens? MANY emeergency rooms have had to close/restrict services because so many illegals use them as their "family doctor", causing 4 to 8 hour waits for "real emergencies" (other than life-theatening ones of course) and hospitals are reeling from the costs of threating them, that they don't get re-imbursed for.
Kahleeforneeya's social system is awash in red-ink from having to support so many illegals who don't/can't work. Yes, it's true, illegals can & DO get welfare, food stamps and medical care. All it takes is false documents, and they're in...
Maybe the states/federal government needs to start charging the various countries for providing for THEIR citizens...the USA shouln't be the world's welfare agancy...
Add to that the costs of educatiing the children of illegal immigrants, (especially with the ESL classes they have to have to begin to be able to learn) and you end up with schools that are teetering on the brink of bankrupcy because of the added (and un-reimbursed ) costs...
Our House of Representatives has proposed making it a felony to be an illegal immigrant. While I might like the idea of such a thing, I also realize that it won't work, will never happen, and won't solve the problem. They need to go after the employere who hire these people, many of whom either have NO documentation that allows them to work here, or have forged documentation, much of which is obviously phony, but the employers need the manpower, so they overlook such trivialities...
$100K fines for EACH violation would start to get the attention of the employers, and while I certainly don't want to put someone out of business, fining them for their illegal activities MIGHT cause them to stop...I know if I get a speeding ticket, I'm certainly more aware of how fast I'm going...for a while...

 

[Puffnstuff]

Stunt is a canadian and doesn't give a sh!t about the U.S. so don't argue with the troll.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Stunt
The mods will never sticky such a worthless thread lined with propoganda.

Had this guy posted a worthless thread supporting your views ,along with links .would you not have called that thread the most accurate portayal of this subject you have read in years?? rofl

You have no clue whatsoever!

The thread is useless...
It's full of biased websites with obvious motives and offered little for opinion other than a bunch of crap about terrorists and denying hes racist :roll:

Racism is a red herring that Libs love to throw out causr they think they are the party of color.

There is nothing racist about wanting to keep illegals out. They break the law in coming here, commit fraud everyday, break the law every day, bankrupt our healthcare and lower wages of the working class.

I don't want to throw out any mexicans but I do not want to see one more break our laws by crossing in to our country. In fact I have many probable illegals that I consider friends. They are hard working and great family people.

calling out racism is weak, unintelligent and lazy. That is what you are listening to all the time? Cracking down and enforcing laws on the books is racist? Not hardly.

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Forgot to put one other website up (not sure if I did), but this is a very good website with tons of information (feel free to check it out stunt)

http://www.alipac.us/index.php