I say do not grant full amnesty. Give them green cards and make them pay twice the tax of normal citizens. Then make them pay another tax for all funds sent outside of the USA.
It's quite simple. The people from Sweden don't work at McDonalds. The illegal Mexicans do, and are willing to do so at an absurdly poor wage at that. So low, that when a middle or highschool student wants to find a job, the best he can do is earn $5.50/hour before taxes. Do you know the cost of production of a McD BigMac? Then you know the profit margin is ~500%. French fries? Even better-- one whole vat of fries (enough for 4 Medium or Large fries, I can't recall) only costs McD ~$0.10. Granted this isn't taking into account production cost, but when you can drop 180-240 vats of fries/hour (IIRC it takes 2:10 per vat to cook, and there are typically 3-4 oil basins in the fryer at each McD with room for 2 vats each) on the busy hours of Saturday morning and afternoon, then McD can definitely afford to pay you more than minimum wage. But they don't have to, because there are plenty of lower skilled workers illegally living in the US with no future ahead of them willing to work for minimum wage. Meanwhile, the student is trying to save for college on his $0.35/hour better than minimum wage job. Is this possible? Considering that Georgia Tech's cost for out of state (~50% of the students here) incoming Freshman was ~$29k last year, of course not.
The way I see it, the more a company benefits from an organized, stable, secure society, the more it owes to that society. McD would not be the icon it is today without the people to buy the food. But do they return the favor? Do they employ the children of the parents that helped make McD an American staple? At a wage high enough to let the student preemptively pay for a sizable portion of his future college tuition? Nope. Yet you people run around proclaiming the glories of immigration. It's no wonder you do: the student, instead of paying for much of his tuition before he gets to college, is forced to take on tens of thousands of dollars in base debt, not including interest, just to finance his education. Interest that he pays back to you. He does all the work, you guys get all the benefit. It's a lot like slavery, only a lot easier for you all-- just say "it's good for the economy" and get a bunch of market analysts together to discuss how the market would be "so much worse" [snicker] if it weren't for the cheap labor; problem solved. Any dissenters you label as "un-American" and pretty soon you can have all the poor people singing "Burn the land, boil the sea; and while you're at it, take the sky from me". "Good for the economy"? Pffft. As I'll mention again later, it's good for the people telling us it's good, and that's why they're telling us it's good. Somewhat of a vested interest, yes?
What's worse is it's only good for these people *right now* and it's killing the country for the up and rising generation. Graduating with tens of thousands of dollars in debt-- what's that do? It pushes back the average age that people get married, that they can buy a house and start building equity, that they can invest in companies and buy products from companies that YOUR money has already been invested in, and worst of all, it pushes back the day that they can stop being so worried and stressed about, say, losing their job as the economy flattens out. But here we see another vested interest you have-- if all the people the top execs employ are massively in debt, then any time you want extra work for no extra effort, all you have to do is claim the company isn't doing so well and that layoffs are in order. Everybody freaks, works their butt off in hope of keeping the job, and then you guys reap the benefit defined as extra profit for no extra investment in society (adding new jobs).
Now I'm sure you're going to mention, if you already haven't (I haven't been reading all your posts), that all these students are just being greedy, and need to toughen up and bite the bit. After all they can't just expect the money to be handed to them, right? They need to find a higher skilled job first, where they actually have to *work*? Pardon me, but my white-collar salaried co-op, at which I work anywhere from 5.5 to 7 hours/day 5/week with paid sick and occasional vacation, which pays over three times what I made working at McD, is at least 20 times easier (I'm not sure, I've lost count it's so many) than taking drive through orders for eight hours straight. It's so easy that I'm on my second semester and I'm still posting to forums, reading e-books, and occasionally updating Excel templates for various SOWs and future and current projects my company is involved in deploying. Never did any of that at McD. Clearly I've found a job that requires skill; those lazy McDonalds works can suck my balls, yes? They've never had a true day's work. Or how about Georgia Tech? Sitting in class all day learning how to use sinusoids to de-blur a photo or encode an audio clip [projects I've done] sure is harder than listening to people like you who missed their coffee this morning bitch because their fries are too hot or their burger wasn't wrapped right, and they *obviously* shouldn't have to deal with this inconvenience, because I mean, not like they're better than this guy or anything, but like gosh this he should have read the customer's mind when asked for French Fries. Obviously you meant "French Fries that have sat in the cardboard carton for 43 seconds to adequately allow them to soak up the oil and cool 15.2C to a more aggreable temperature. Stupid McWorker, get a real job. But no, I can see how you would say doing that sort of thing for eight hours is worthless and requires no skill or character. It really is so much easier than writing a PSTN dialer and call connector, or a java space invaders mockup. In case you haven't caught the sarcasm... Anyhow. The whole argument that some jobs are better and worth more than others is a non issue, so don't mention it. There are a billion and one things it takes to work at McDonalds that a day trader, excited about his favorite company's latest PR stating that they're going to be laying off their dedicated workers in favor of cheaper Mexicans, simply wouldn't be able to put up with. But he's in a position of power, doesn't have the decency or the balls to have his cake and go home happy; no, he has to eat it too.
So then here's what we have now: The only people proclaiming these illegal immigrants good for the economy are the ones directly making the millions from the cheap labor. Did the Mexicans help my salary when I worked at McDonalds? Did they help my friend's? Did they help the slightly deranged lady, Melissa, who had been working there for 16 years who got layed off for cheaper labor? No, no, and no. The store manager and the McCorporation were the only ones that benefited. There is absolutely no jumping over or hoo-hawing away the fact that these people lying to us about how great this illegal immigration is for our country are the very ones that have the most to gain from telling us so, and have zero incentive to tell us the immigration is bad. They tell you "It's good for the economy" when what they really mean is "It's great for me, sucks for you, and unfair for both of us to say the least." Meanwhile the problem is a lot bigger than it seems, the people making all the money off the cheap labor pay the politicians to keep quiet, and the problem grows beyond 30,000,000 people (10% [!] of our population).
And we haven't even begun discussing the hidden costs to society in the form of taxes that WE, NOT THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are paying so that the illegals' children can go to public school, the extra English teachers we have to hire for that school, the holdup the Mexican kids are on our kids in the math and science classes because they don't even understand English, so how is the teacher supposed to teach them Math, the income tax we're losing from all these fast food paychecks that could go to paying better wages for the army or more funding for NASA or something, the extra cost of full jails and building new ones (Mexicans tend to a Mexican style of life, which includes gangs, which leads to crimes and whatnot) if safety is your concern (in many southern counties in borderline states the police can't arrest illegal immigrants because they already have too many in the cells and don't have enough room for all of them), etc. The list is endless. But "no, the immigration is good for the country". How long will people listen to this nonsense?
It's all right there, and you're blind if you don't see it.
As I've posted many times before.
1.) The crime thing is a lie. Immigrant crime rates are very comparable to citizen crime rates.
2.) These exact same arguments against lack of assimilation have been made countless times before, and have been lies every time. In view of repeated historical precedent, it is likely these are lies as well. This is just xenophobia.
3.) That guy above me just said that "Mexicans lead a Mexican style of life which includes gangs and leads to crime". Now if you want people to stop calling the anti immigrant people racists... you gotta keep people like him off the boards.
There can be an argument made that low skill low education immigrants take more from the economy then they give back. This is a really tenuous argument, and it's very hard to measure or to prove... but it's an argument you can make. The others are crap.
1.) The crime thing is a lie. Immigrant crime rates are very comparable to citizen crime rates.
2.) These exact same arguments against lack of assimilation have been made countless times before, and have been lies every time. In view of repeated historical precedent, it is likely these are lies as well. This is just xenophobia.
3.) That guy above me just said that "Mexicans lead a Mexican style of life which includes gangs and leads to crime". Now if you want people to stop calling the anti immigrant people racists... you gotta keep people like him off the boards.
There can be an argument made that low skill low education immigrants take more from the economy then they give back. This is a really tenuous argument, and it's very hard to measure or to prove... but it's an argument you can make. The others are crap.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
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#1: BS. if that is the case then why are the majority of prisoners in city, county state and federal jails illegals?
#2: BS, if thats the case why do i see spanish in the grocery store isles, on my government forms, NFL commercials. pesos accepted at pizza joints. city jobs that if you arent bi-lingual you cant apply. assimiliation isnt happening because it doesnt have to. an illegal has everything he needs to live in the US without having to learn english. back during the days of Ellis Island sure you saw little pockets of homeland culture, but you can not compare that to the mexican influx. dude its not just isolated along the border, its nation wide. no country has ever lasted long once its culture and language was divided, and that is exactly what is happening now.
#3: i agree with that point.
He is either very stupid or using false claims, misleading examples and partial information to support an agenda.
Most of what he says makes absolutely no sense from an economic perspective.
Most of what he says makes absolutely no sense from an economic perspective.
How is calling a group out on the truth racist? I'd heard this before, hadn't done much research myself, so after reading your point thought I'd go spend some time myself researching this, as assuming it without cause has dire consequences. So I googled for 'Mexican gang violence" and got this. Notice none of those links contain words such as "overrated" "not a problem" etc., instead we have quite the opposite: Mexican gangs are "Out of Control", "Beyond Risk", and "More likely to kill".
So I don't exactly think it's fair to say I'm being partial, when the facts seem to only confirm what I was saying.
#1: Sorry, but they aren't. Upon further reading I should revise my point though. Approximately 17% of federal inmates are considered illegal aliens. This is much higher then the natural average. What I was referring to earlier was all immigrants, not illegals.. and I should have been clearer. When you statistically control for wealth levels however, the illegal population again ends up correlating well with the national born population.
The important thing there however is that your point is incorrect. They do not comprise a majority, or anywhere near it. I should have phrased what I wrote better though.
#2: Throughout American history there have been social groups that when immigrating to America, have formed their own subculture. (chinatown anyone?) This is largely indicitive of first generation immigrants. As they have children, they become naturalized. This is why you used to have large German speaking areas of Pennyslvania (yeap, street signs, grocery stores, everything) and you no longer do. There is no evidence that the children of Mexican immigrants are less likely to assimilate then any other immigrant group throughout history. I would like to note that these previous immigrant groups were subject to similar fears of cultural conquest and failure to assimilate.
#3: Something we can agree on! There are plenty of defensible reasons to be against immigration, but "Mexican culture is criminal" is not one of them. That's a 19th century eugenics type argument.
omg no
the white race is not going to be the majority !
by the way the guy failed to mention that the most educated and wealthy people in the U.S are usually from the third world.
O WELL
the white race is not going to be the majority !
by the way the guy failed to mention that the most educated and wealthy people in the U.S are usually from the third world.
O WELL
People in favor of illegal-immigration should be required to live in Southern California for a year, then I'm sure they'll change their mind.
Originally posted by: Stunt
Personal observation?! :laugh:Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Of course your numbers are based on Government lies.Originally posted by: Stunt
Mexico's birth rate is 2.06%
United States birth rate is 1.41%
If the average American family has 1.86 kids.
Of course McOwen pulls more statistics out of his a$$.
At least mine are from personal observation.
How many Mexican families do you see on a daily basis up there in Canada eh?
Best statistical analysis ever!
Everyone I know has a job and doesn't get paid minimum wage, therefore there are no poor people.
Personal observation, Dave; how can you begin to deny the accuracy of my claims?
Because you don't live here.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt
Personal observation?! :laugh:Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Of course your numbers are based on Government lies.Originally posted by: Stunt
Mexico's birth rate is 2.06%
United States birth rate is 1.41%
If the average American family has 1.86 kids.
Of course McOwen pulls more statistics out of his a$$.
At least mine are from personal observation.
How many Mexican families do you see on a daily basis up there in Canada eh?
Best statistical analysis ever!
Everyone I know has a job and doesn't get paid minimum wage, therefore there are no poor people.
Personal observation, Dave; how can you begin to deny the accuracy of my claims?
Because you don't live here.
And apparently you can't read
Mexican pols press for immigration, neglect home front, critics say
It's just a scam, the worse things get in Mexico, the more they come to the US, and the more they come to the US, the more money they send back to Mexico. The rich people here get cheap labor and the rich people in Mexico get rid of their unemployment and keep there taxes down while Mr US Taxpayer gets stuck with the bill.
I really can't understand how any American could be so stupid to support this umless of course they are directly benifiting from their cheap labor.
It's just a scam, the worse things get in Mexico, the more they come to the US, and the more they come to the US, the more money they send back to Mexico. The rich people here get cheap labor and the rich people in Mexico get rid of their unemployment and keep there taxes down while Mr US Taxpayer gets stuck with the bill.
I really can't understand how any American could be so stupid to support this umless of course they are directly benifiting from their cheap labor.
I live in San Diego, I can get to the border in 20 minutes. I'm pro-immigration. So are lots of my friends. The only really anti-immigration people I know here are the ones that live in the super redneck suburbs here.
LOL, I think your the redneck if you can't see through this scam.
The worse things get in Mexico, the more illegals come to the US. They work cheap (and hard) which weakens US labor's ability to demand decent cost-of-living wage increases and therefore makes the legal workers standard-of-living worse. If this contines on unabated it's only a matter of time until things are as bad here as they are in Mexico.
?! I don't think you know what a redneck is. Thanks for playing though.
Long story short here, if you are losing your job to an illegal immigrant... your job SUCKS. Go get some skills and get a new one... you will thank yourself later. The illegal immigrants are not taking our high paying skilled labor jobs.
If you really want to worry about that sort of thing, you should worry about India and Chinese workers taking your jobs, as they DO have qualifications. As long as business is globalized, and labor is not however... we will continue to lose jobs to those countries that will accept lower pay.
think you better try watching it a third time your still not grasping the majority of what he is saying.
He is saying that the immigration levels instituted since 1970 are not sustainable and are not truly helping the 3rd world.
I lived in southern California, well, since I was born and I don't have an issue with anybody, and neither do most of the people I know.
So it doesn't bother you when there are Spanish-only signs in a store? I work for CVS and we received some signs that were only in Spanish. I don't even like bilingual stuff, it's annoying. Yes, I do speak Spanish (and Portuguese for that matter) but I think enabling immigrants this way is wrong and destructive. My mom came from Denmark (legally, obviously) and they had to learn English in order to become successful. Sure, one could live in their little bubble - but don't come crying to me when you can't understand something.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
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shhhhhhhh, they dont want to hear that stuff man, all they want to hear is that the border is wide open and we all have to learn spanish so we dont offend the non english speakers.
i think your mom should bitch, after all i dont see signs in danish, or get prompted to press 2 for danish, or hear a large grocery store announce its specials of the day in danish. she didnt get to take the driving test in danish, or demand that doctors get a intereptor for her if she went to the ER... your mom got discrimated against and should sue for having her rights violated.
Originally posted by: dna
As a wealthy "half-Jew" you are in no position to make these kind of statements
Hi Jew part 1,
Do not call me a half-Jew :disgust::brokenheart:. If my mother is a Jew I am a Jew... nooo?
So therefore, we are Jew brothers.
"grabs your hand"
Let's do a Jewish dance for the people.
-Signed Jew part 2.
P.S. I am not rich
It doesn't bother me...why should it? I have never had a problem communicating with people who didn't really understand English. I don't find it annoying at all as you do. For the record, I understand something should be done about illegal immigration, but since the U.S. government isn't willing to do anything about it, I'll learn to live with it even though it doesn't bother me. If it bothers you so much then maybe you should move because things aren't going to change. The way I see it is if the government really wanted to something about it they would have done it a long time ago.
Orignal Earl
Diamond Member
- Oct 27, 2005
- 8,059
- 55
- 86
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