Illegal Immigration and its affects

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: Zebo
the more the merrier, etc we should have open borders and even fly people here that want to be.

You got it. We need start importing illegals not just from South America, because that would be racism if we prefer only brown skin people. You don't want to appear racist, even if you're pro illegals.

We need to fly/sail Illegals from African countries like Somalia, Middle Eastern countries like Yemen, Asian countries like Phillippines and China.

With increased Illegal competition, America will benefit from lower illegal wages, and our services and goods would be way cheaper than it is now. Instead of paying Garcia for 11 dollar an hour at Home Depot, we can pay Chan or Baya for only 3 dollar an hour. Competition make Illegal economy healthy.

We need to keep growing illegal population. USA shouldn't have any border, it's illegal policy. We need to admit as many illegals as possible, say, 1.2 billion a year to make our economy grow.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Bacstar
So...what does the country need to do???

Personally I think the benefits to illegal immigration are 4-fold.
a) Allowing those less fortunate the opportunity to build wealth in an entitlement free environment; capitalism at its best, I truly admire illegals.
b) The low cost labour makes the US economy far more efficient and productive; everyone's standard of living is increased with illegal workers.
c) GDP growth is accelerated as people of little wealth are brought up to the standard of living all Americans are accustomed to. Raising the wealth of people who are already extremely wealthy is difficult relative to taking someone who doesn't consume anything.
d) The expansion of the economy and population will maintain the US's status as a superpower. China and India have programs to reduce population growth as they never had a wealthy base to start with. Much like Germany did with the poorer eastern Germany, the US will have no problem sustaining a high standard of living with hard working and productive immigrants. With the US at 450million (by 2050) it will have no problem maintaining its superpower status, even against countries such as China.

a) Entitlement free? where do you get this idea? In my state a welfare mother of 3 gets $1400 cash a month and section 8 housing and food stamps and free medical. Not to mention free school for her children. USA is chock full of entitlements.

b) Your theory contradicts reality. Standard of living has been going down for lower and middle class for 30 years as they share the wealth with the third world. More than likely what will happen is what is already happening - a glut of labor and limited capital making laborers poorer fighting for those scraps while owners of capital can pay rock bottom due to everyone else being over the barrel. I see this in my industry paying people $8 an hour to do dirty fifthly construction work like shoot stucco while in the 70's guys made $13-$15 an hour. Similarly once kids relise they don't want to shoot stucco now and all head off to college their becomes a glut of PHD's which we also have today doing forever postdocs if they have a good PhD like in science...English? forgettaboutit..the local HS is hiring @$26,000


c) GDP is pretty meaningless to 99% of the people as the Gini index explodes

d) Superpower is good for nothing but wars of avarice making all USA citizens a target overseas. I'd much rather be rich, have a strong middle class and quiet.

 

[1EZduzit]

Let's just legalize slavery and every houshold in the US gets a free illegal to do the jobs that "americans" won't.

 

[Bacstar]

Again the strain on social services....

These immigrants who work these below minimum wage jobs, collect no health insurance, so anytime they get hurt, they show up at our hospitals. My sisters both work at Kaiser, and they cannot turn them away. They get the treatment and the hospital has to try and collect from the gov't or eat the costs which in turn raises the fees for everyone else.

Now I realize that you don't have to be an immigrant for this scenario to happen, but it's just one more straw to an ever increasing pile of straws that will eventually break the camel's back.

I used to live in southern california...now don't get me started on stories where a lot of hit and run accidents are caused or can be attributed to "illegal" immigrants without auto-insurance....

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Bacstar
So...what does the country need to do???

Personally I think the benefits to illegal immigration are 4-fold.
a) Allowing those less fortunate the opportunity to build wealth in an entitlement free environment; capitalism at its best, I truly admire illegals.
b) The low cost labour makes the US economy far more efficient and productive; everyone's standard of living is increased with illegal workers.
c) GDP growth is accelerated as people of little wealth are brought up to the standard of living all Americans are accustomed to. Raising the wealth of people who are already extremely wealthy is difficult relative to taking someone who doesn't consume anything.
d) The expansion of the economy and population will maintain the US's status as a superpower. China and India have programs to reduce population growth as they never had a wealthy base to start with. Much like Germany did with the poorer eastern Germany, the US will have no problem sustaining a high standard of living with hard working and productive immigrants. With the US at 450million (by 2050) it will have no problem maintaining its superpower status, even against countries such as China.

a) Entitlement free? where do you get this idea? In my state a welfare mother of 3 gets $1400 cash a month and section 8 housing and food stamps and free medical. Not to mention free school for her children. USA is chock full of entitlements.

b) Your theory contradicts reality. Standard of living has been going down for lower and middle class for 30 years as they share the wealth with the third world. More than likely what will happen is what is already happening - a glut of labor and limited capital making laborers poorer fighting for those scraps while owners of capital can pay rock bottom due to everyone else being over the barrel. I see this in my industry paying people $8 an hour to do dirty fifthly construction work like shoot stucco while in the 70's guys made $13-$15 an hour. Similarly once kids relise they don't want to shoot stucco now and all head off to college their becomes a glut of PHD's which we also have today doing forever postdocs if they have a good PhD like in science...English? forgettaboutit..the local HS is hiring @$26,000


c) GDP is pretty meaningless to 99% of the people as the Gini index explodes

d) Superpower is good for nothing but wars of avarice making all USA citizens a target overseas. I'd much rather be rich, have a strong middle class and quiet.

a) entitlement free meaning they don't rely on these institutions like Americans do. They are making it on their own abilities and no support from government institutions.
b) Standard of living has gone up for every citizen who has educated themselves; no matter how little. If an American has been exposed to so many opportunities throughout his life and can't compete against someone with absolutely nothing of value, no education and no english...the schmuck doesn't deserve to live in America. Apathy will be the demise of Americans and the rise of immigrants; and to be quite honest, there's nothing wrong with that.
c) GDP is a meaningless number to most, but it describes a nation's ability to generate wealth. If illegals are perfectly happy with their wages, if anything they will raise the standard of living of all other Americans. Even if it's cheaper housing, or more car washes; all raising standard of living. Keep in mind tax structure is a totally different issue, and up to your government to determine; this may explain the widening of the economic classes.
d) I'm sure many Americans are quite happy to stay as the world's only superpower. I do however admire your modesty.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: babylon5

Originally posted by: Zebo
the more the merrier, etc we should have open borders and even fly people here that want to be.

You got it. We need start importing illegals not just from South America, because that would be racism if we prefer only brown skin people. You don't want to appear racist, even if you're pro illegals.

We need to fly/sail Illegals from African countries like Somalia, Middle Eastern countries like Yemen, Asian countries like Phillippines and China.

With increased Illegal competition, America will benefit from lower illegal wages, and our services and goods would be way cheaper than it is now. Instead of paying Garcia for 11 dollar an hour at Home Depot, we can pay Chan or Baya for only 3 dollar an hour. Competition make Illegal economy healthy.

We need to keep growing illegal population. USA shouldn't have any border, it's illegal policy. We need to admit as many illegals as possible, say, 1.2 billion a year to make our economy grow.

Thats exactly what I'm thinking - if it's beneficial (despite no proven matrix other than capital holders are getting richer) to have 35 million illegals here then it must be that much more beneficial to have 1 billion illegals here. Charter flights should be running day and night to Chad/Somalia etc

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Bacstar
Again the strain on social services....

These immigrants who work these below minimum wage jobs, collect no health insurance, so anytime they get hurt, they show up at our hospitals. My sisters both work at Kaiser, and they cannot turn them away. They get the treatment and the hospital has to try and collect from the gov't or eat the costs which in turn raises the fees for everyone else.

Now I realize that you don't have to be an immigrant for this scenario to happen, but it's just one more straw to an ever increasing pile of straws that will eventually break the camel's back.

I used to live in southern california...now don't get me started on stories where a lot of hit and run accidents are caused or can be attributed to "illegal" immigrants without auto-insurance....

Again, you cannot look at one side of the equation.
I can make an argument for illegal immigration using your logic too...

More tax generation through sales and corporate taxes on goods and services

See...if we completely ignore the costs, illegals look absolutely amazing.
Quit looking at one side of the equation...it makes you look short sighted and naive.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Bacstar
So...what does the country need to do???

Personally I think the benefits to illegal immigration are 4-fold.
a) Allowing those less fortunate the opportunity to build wealth in an entitlement free environment; capitalism at its best, I truly admire illegals.
b) The low cost labour makes the US economy far more efficient and productive; everyone's standard of living is increased with illegal workers.
c) GDP growth is accelerated as people of little wealth are brought up to the standard of living all Americans are accustomed to. Raising the wealth of people who are already extremely wealthy is difficult relative to taking someone who doesn't consume anything.
d) The expansion of the economy and population will maintain the US's status as a superpower. China and India have programs to reduce population growth as they never had a wealthy base to start with. Much like Germany did with the poorer eastern Germany, the US will have no problem sustaining a high standard of living with hard working and productive immigrants. With the US at 450million (by 2050) it will have no problem maintaining its superpower status, even against countries such as China.

a) Entitlement free? where do you get this idea? In my state a welfare mother of 3 gets $1400 cash a month and section 8 housing and food stamps and free medical. Not to mention free school for her children. USA is chock full of entitlements.

b) Your theory contradicts reality. Standard of living has been going down for lower and middle class for 30 years as they share the wealth with the third world. More than likely what will happen is what is already happening - a glut of labor and limited capital making laborers poorer fighting for those scraps while owners of capital can pay rock bottom due to everyone else being over the barrel. I see this in my industry paying people $8 an hour to do dirty fifthly construction work like shoot stucco while in the 70's guys made $13-$15 an hour. Similarly once kids relise they don't want to shoot stucco now and all head off to college their becomes a glut of PHD's which we also have today doing forever postdocs if they have a good PhD like in science...English? forgettaboutit..the local HS is hiring @$26,000


c) GDP is pretty meaningless to 99% of the people as the Gini index explodes

d) Superpower is good for nothing but wars of avarice making all USA citizens a target overseas. I'd much rather be rich, have a strong middle class and quiet.

a) entitlement free meaning they don't rely on these institutions like Americans do. They are making it on their own abilities and no support from government institutions.
b) Standard of living has gone up for every citizen who has educated themselves; no matter how little. If an American has been exposed to so many opportunities throughout his life and can't compete against someone with absolutely nothing of value, no education and no english...the schmuck doesn't deserve to live in America. Apathy will be the demise of Americans and the rise of immigrants; and to be quite honest, there's nothing wrong with that.
c) GDP is a meaningless number to most, but it describes a nation's ability to generate wealth. If illegals are perfectly happy with their wages, if anything they will raise the standard of living of all other Americans. Even if it's cheaper housing, or more car washes; all raising standard of living. Keep in mind tax structure is a totally different issue, and up to your government to determine; this may explain the widening of the economic classes.
d) I'm sure many Americans are quite happy to stay as the world's only superpower. I do however admire your modesty.

What are you talking about? Every study shows illegals sucking the system dry. Lou Dobbs quoted a study that said 33 percent of our prison population is illegals and around 40% percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. A good proportion of these people the American dream is crime and welfare.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

I think you just like making this stuff up because it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy despite the damage to the indigenous population. I'd wager you be singing a different tune if 35 million uneducated illegals descended upon Canada. Thats why you guys have strict immigration law, requiring at least a BS degree.

 

[Zebo]

Pretty good read "Why the Federal Government Can't and Won't End Illegal Immigration"
http://usliberals.about.com/od/immigration/a/IllegalImmi.htm

Republicans can thank thier buddy Bush on this one virtually 100%.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Bacstar
So...what does the country need to do???

Personally I think the benefits to illegal immigration are 4-fold.
a) Allowing those less fortunate the opportunity to build wealth in an entitlement free environment; capitalism at its best, I truly admire illegals.
b) The low cost labour makes the US economy far more efficient and productive; everyone's standard of living is increased with illegal workers.
c) GDP growth is accelerated as people of little wealth are brought up to the standard of living all Americans are accustomed to. Raising the wealth of people who are already extremely wealthy is difficult relative to taking someone who doesn't consume anything.
d) The expansion of the economy and population will maintain the US's status as a superpower. China and India have programs to reduce population growth as they never had a wealthy base to start with. Much like Germany did with the poorer eastern Germany, the US will have no problem sustaining a high standard of living with hard working and productive immigrants. With the US at 450million (by 2050) it will have no problem maintaining its superpower status, even against countries such as China.

a) Entitlement free? where do you get this idea? In my state a welfare mother of 3 gets $1400 cash a month and section 8 housing and food stamps and free medical. Not to mention free school for her children. USA is chock full of entitlements.

b) Your theory contradicts reality. Standard of living has been going down for lower and middle class for 30 years as they share the wealth with the third world. More than likely what will happen is what is already happening - a glut of labor and limited capital making laborers poorer fighting for those scraps while owners of capital can pay rock bottom due to everyone else being over the barrel. I see this in my industry paying people $8 an hour to do dirty fifthly construction work like shoot stucco while in the 70's guys made $13-$15 an hour. Similarly once kids relise they don't want to shoot stucco now and all head off to college their becomes a glut of PHD's which we also have today doing forever postdocs if they have a good PhD like in science...English? forgettaboutit..the local HS is hiring @$26,000


c) GDP is pretty meaningless to 99% of the people as the Gini index explodes

d) Superpower is good for nothing but wars of avarice making all USA citizens a target overseas. I'd much rather be rich, have a strong middle class and quiet.

a) entitlement free meaning they don't rely on these institutions like Americans do. They are making it on their own abilities and no support from government institutions.
b) Standard of living has gone up for every citizen who has educated themselves; no matter how little. If an American has been exposed to so many opportunities throughout his life and can't compete against someone with absolutely nothing of value, no education and no english...the schmuck doesn't deserve to live in America. Apathy will be the demise of Americans and the rise of immigrants; and to be quite honest, there's nothing wrong with that.
c) GDP is a meaningless number to most, but it describes a nation's ability to generate wealth. If illegals are perfectly happy with their wages, if anything they will raise the standard of living of all other Americans. Even if it's cheaper housing, or more car washes; all raising standard of living. Keep in mind tax structure is a totally different issue, and up to your government to determine; this may explain the widening of the economic classes.
d) I'm sure many Americans are quite happy to stay as the world's only superpower. I do however admire your modesty.

What are you talking about? Every study shows illegals sucking the system dry. Lou Dobbs quoted a study that said 33 percent of our prison population is illegals and around 40% percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. A good proportion of these people the American dream is crime and welfare.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

I think you just like making this stuff up because it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy despite the damage to the indigenous population. I'd wager you be singing a different tune if 35 million uneducated illegals descended upon Canada. Thats why you guys have strict immigration law, requiring at least a BS degree.

a) Most studies on immigration are developed by special interests and hold little credibility; hell the estimates for illegals range from 3 to 12 million...I don't know how you can even begin to quantify the number on social assistance when they aren't even eligible for this.
b) The only indigenous population are natives; I don't know who you think you are protecting. Most first world nations are comprised of a broad range of cultures and nationalities.
d) I don't agree with Canadian immigration policies; given we are 10% of you population, I would have no problem allowing 3 million the opportunity to work and succeed within my nation.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Originally posted by: Rainsford
So?

Anybody who can do basic math can tell you that population will grow faster if you have immigration than if you don't. The real question is why I should care...at all...even a little bit. A country like ours has been largely built with immigration, the argument being made in the video is that it's somehow "bad" that the immigrants who made it here before 1970 won't still be the majority 50 years from now. Please explain to me why that's a problem.

Edit: I re-watched the video and see the answer to my question. The point is apparently that every immigrant who came before 1970 is an upstanding, hardworking citizen who helps this country move forward...and that every immigrant (legal or otherwise) SINCE 1970 is some poor dumb slob from the 3rd world who will NEVER, and who's decedents will NEVER, amount to anything other than a drain on society. That's awesome :roll:

The funny things is that that was the same thing said about the Irish, Jews, German, and Asian immigrants when they migrated back then.

Prior to the change of law in 1964 our immigration was around 100,000-200,000. Now it is 1,000,000 legal and 500,000 illegal.

Funny thing is you keep ignoring the sheer volume of people coming in, and then one day dare to wonder why you're the new minority and not in control of your own home.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Stunt
a) Population costs but also generates wealth. If higher population was a liability, the US's 300m people wouldn't be sustainable compared to Canada's 30m or UK's 60m.
b) He mentions the additional schools California has to build a year again focusing on the costs when 40% of California immigrants are asian and asian americans have a higher average income than white americans.
c) Without population growth, the US economy would not have experienced the growth it has.
d) Even today with skilled immigrants coming into our countries, we will still have a difficult time replacing retiring baby boomers.

His argument is ridiculous...

Okay lets say the U.S. government grants amnesty to the 30 million illegals here already. Within a few years they are able to bring family in legally. How will 150 million more immigrants create wealth? The legal taxpayers in the U.S. will be envious of countries with only 50% tax rate then.

Lets see what happens if you grant amnesty:
a) social programs; already paying for this
b) jobs; they are already working and self sufficient
c) you get to collect income tax

Sounds like a good deal to me.
Although for me...the amnesty debate comes down to the opportunity cost of income taxes versus an efficient labour force willing to work for much less than is legal. This creates more wealth for citizens and creates more jobs that would otherwise not exist.

SO an illegal immigrant gets Amnesty. While illegal he was working under the table because he could afford to. Several families to a house (codes violation), no auto insurance required (thats for legal residents), and no health insurance premiums, and no taxes taken out of his pay.

So no the illegal immigrant suddenly becomes legal. Uhoh... no he is subject to law enforcement since he now has a valid traceable id. Do you think he could afford to work at the same pay he was working at while he had an illegal status?

The whole reason illegal immigration is so popular is because companies can get more work done for the same amount of labor cost. So a market was created for illegal labor. Take away that cost advantage... throw in the next 150 million person influx seeking amnesty and you have essentially now a third world nation.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I have no idea where you are getting "150 million more" from; Mexico's population is 107 million.

Although Mexicans make up the vast majority of illegal immigrants... there are many more countries around the globe, You don't think America would be an attractive target after 30 million illegal immigrants were given amnesty?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Stunt
I have no idea where you are getting "150 million more" from; Mexico's population is 107 million.

Although Mexicans make up the vast majority of illegal immigrants... there are many more countries around the globe, You don't think America would be an attractive target after 30 million illegal immigrants were given amnesty?

So not only is every Mexican going to flood into the US, but you think people are going to swim accross the ocean? The US is already an attractive target to move to; the added incentive is minimal.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I have no idea where you are getting "150 million more" from; Mexico's population is 107 million.

They have a very high replacement ratio as the women have at least 4 kids or more each.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
I have no idea where you are getting "150 million more" from; Mexico's population is 107 million.

They have a very high replacement ratio as the women have at least 4 kids or more each.

Mexico's birth rate is 2.06%
United States birth rate is 1.41%

If the average American family has 1.86 kids.
Of course McOwen pulls more statistics out of his a$$.

 

[techs]

Seriously flawed reasoning. For example he says we will need to build twice as many roads due to illegal immigration. WTF? Actually we would need to build twice as many NEW roads if illegals used the roads at the same rate as natural born Americans. Which they don't. Immigrants tend to live in urban concentrations and use public transportation. Natural born Americans tend to stretch out and move into new, un-built up areas. Therefore they need far more new roads than immigrants.
I could go on and on. But this guy is either an ignorant fool or a dangerous ideologue.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Originally posted by: Rainsford
So?

Anybody who can do basic math can tell you that population will grow faster if you have immigration than if you don't. The real question is why I should care...at all...even a little bit. A country like ours has been largely built with immigration, the argument being made in the video is that it's somehow "bad" that the immigrants who made it here before 1970 won't still be the majority 50 years from now. Please explain to me why that's a problem.

Edit: I re-watched the video and see the answer to my question. The point is apparently that every immigrant who came before 1970 is an upstanding, hardworking citizen who helps this country move forward...and that every immigrant (legal or otherwise) SINCE 1970 is some poor dumb slob from the 3rd world who will NEVER, and who's decedents will NEVER, amount to anything other than a drain on society. That's awesome :roll:

The funny things is that that was the same thing said about the Irish, Jews, German, and Asian immigrants when they migrated back then.

Prior to the change of law in 1964 our immigration was around 100,000-200,000. Now it is 1,000,000 legal and 500,000 illegal.

Funny thing is you keep ignoring the sheer volume of people coming in, and then one day dare to wonder why you're the new minority and not in control of your own home.

I can't think of anything I care less about than whether my race, or skin color, or religion, is the majority in this country or not...and anyone who feels otherwise is a God-damned bigot. End of story. Whatever kind of OTHER arguments may exist, I don't think "preserving our European heritage" should be at the top of the list. And yes, I called you a bigot...mostly because you seem to think that people coming here (because they aren't the right color or race) aren't going to be as American as the folks already living here. That, once enough Mexicans get here, they're going to, I don't know, make it illegal to vote unless you speak Spanish.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Rainsford
So?

Anybody who can do basic math can tell you that population will grow faster if you have immigration than if you don't. The real question is why I should care...at all...even a little bit. A country like ours has been largely built with immigration, the argument being made in the video is that it's somehow "bad" that the immigrants who made it here before 1970 won't still be the majority 50 years from now. Please explain to me why that's a problem.

Edit: I re-watched the video and see the answer to my question. The point is apparently that every immigrant who came before 1970 is an upstanding, hardworking citizen who helps this country move forward...and that every immigrant (legal or otherwise) SINCE 1970 is some poor dumb slob from the 3rd world who will NEVER, and who's decedents will NEVER, amount to anything other than a drain on society. That's awesome :roll:

This country was built on the back of slaves too, should we reconstitute slavery? The real question that needs to be asked is not being asked and that's whether it's beneficial to have immigration today in the here and now. All indicators is it's not beneficial to the indigenous population not just over crowding, stressed social services, but also it displaces many very lower income groups from jobs altogether rendering our inner cities wastelands of unemployment and crime. Using your silly argument that country was built on immigrants, the more the merrier, etc we should have open borders and even fly people here that want to be.

Yes, that IS the question, isn't it? And as far as I can tell, "all indicators" stem from the silly idea that because the immigrants are coming from somewhere else, they're evil people who won't be as beneficial as the previous generation of immigrants. Please explain to me why immigrants coming from Sweden were good, but when the immigration is coming from Mexico, it's suddenly bad.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Yes, that IS the question, isn't it? And as far as I can tell, "all indicators" stem from the silly idea that because the immigrants are coming from somewhere else, they're evil people who won't be as beneficial as the previous generation of immigrants. Please explain to me why immigrants coming from Sweden were good, but when the immigration is coming from Mexico, it's suddenly bad.

Did the Swedes sneak in or did they come in legally?
Did they go through the melting pot process? Seen anybody displaying the Swedish flag recently? Seen any Gov. documents translated to Swedish?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
I have no idea where you are getting "150 million more" from; Mexico's population is 107 million.

They have a very high replacement ratio as the women have at least 4 kids or more each.

Mexico's birth rate is 2.06%
United States birth rate is 1.41%

If the average American family has 1.86 kids.
Of course McOwen pulls more statistics out of his a$$.

Of course your numbers are based on Government lies.

At least mine are from personal observation.

How many Mexican families do you see on a daily basis up there in Canada eh?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
I have no idea where you are getting "150 million more" from; Mexico's population is 107 million.

They have a very high replacement ratio as the women have at least 4 kids or more each.

Mexico's birth rate is 2.06%
United States birth rate is 1.41%

If the average American family has 1.86 kids.
Of course McOwen pulls more statistics out of his a$$.

Of course your numbers are based on Government lies.

At least mine are from personal observation.

How many Mexican families do you see on a daily basis up there in Canada eh?

Personal observation?! :laugh:
Best statistical analysis ever!

Everyone I know has a job and doesn't get paid minimum wage, therefore there are no poor people. Personal observation, Dave; how can you begin to deny the accuracy of my claims?

 

[BoomerD]

All you have to do is visit any part of the country that has been over-run by the invasion to see that MOST of the claims in that video are at least CLOSE to the truth...
These illegals move into an area, and quickly turn it into "little Tijuana", with the slow destruction of the neighborhoods, high crime rates, and poverty. Send them ALL home. It's NOT the job of the US of A to provide jobs, housing, medical are, etc. for citizens of any foreign nation...
On a similar subject, it should be ILLEGAL for ANY immigrant to receive welfare, food stamps, gov't funded medical care. If they're going to be a "drag on our resources", then they shouldn't be allowed to stay here...

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Bacstar
My friend emailed me this link to this video that discusses the affects of illegal immigration and its affects on the population of the USA. It's definitely an eye opener.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ&NR

Thanks for the link. Of course, the immigration advocates will still claim that the only reason to oppose immigration is racism, completely and intellectually dishonestly ignoring the concerns about the environment and population explosion.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Stunt
a) Population costs but also generates wealth. If higher population was a liability, the US's 300m people wouldn't be sustainable compared to Canada's 30m or UK's 60m.
b) He mentions the additional schools California has to build a year again focusing on the costs when 40% of California immigrants are asian and asian americans have a higher average income than white americans.
c) Without population growth, the US economy would not have experienced the growth it has.
d) Even today with skilled immigrants coming into our countries, we will still have a difficult time replacing retiring baby boomers.

His argument is ridiculous...

Okay lets say the U.S. government grants amnesty to the 30 million illegals here already. Within a few years they are able to bring family in legally. How will 150 million more immigrants create wealth? The legal taxpayers in the U.S. will be envious of countries with only 50% tax rate then.

Lets see what happens if you grant amnesty:
a) social programs; already paying for this
b) jobs; they are already working and self sufficient
c) you get to collect income tax

Sounds like a good deal to me.
Although for me...the amnesty debate comes down to the opportunity cost of income taxes versus an efficient labour force willing to work for much less than is legal. This creates more wealth for citizens and creates more jobs that would otherwise not exist.

list the cons if you can.